Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[reneweddaybyday]

if they "will believe in time", then your claim that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is in error.

will you ever acknowledge that what you claimed in Post 1804 is error??? ... or that your claim completely contradicts what is written in Scripture??? ... or that your claim contradicts your own dogma???

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

they will believe in time

since "they will believe in time" then your statement that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is error ... when will you admit your error???

What Bible do you read wherein God ever condones sin???


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

believed by those

since the gospel will be "believed" then your statement that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" is error ... when will you admit your error???

What Bible do you read wherein God ever condones sin???


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

One's trust does not bring spiritual rebirth.

please provide the number of the post submitted by me where I ever stated trust brings spiritual rebirth.

I will not hold my breath because you will not find said post. However, that will not stop you from continuing to claim I stated what you claim.

I have, however, submitted posts wherein I clearly stated that it is the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to all who believe:

it is the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation ... not their faith, but the power of God:

Romans 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it [the gospel of Christ] is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein [in the gospel of Christ] is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [suppress] the truth in unrighteousness

trust/belief is the "earnest" (money) of the inheritance

nope ... read the verse again, rogerg:

Ephesians 1:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


vs 13 - after that ye heard the word of truth, ye trusted ...
vs 13 - after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated ... born again)
vs 14 - the holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance. According to you, your faith is the "earnest" (money) of the inheritance. Talk about trusting in your "works" ...

The holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance.

The word "earnest" is translated from the Greek word arrabón

HELPS Word-studies:

728 arrhabṓn – properly, an installment; a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price).​

​

728 /arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).​

The earnest of the Spirit represents full security backed by the Purchaser Who supplies sufficient proof that He will fulfill the entire pledge.

God is the Guarantor ... the earnest of the Spirit represents the full security that the entire pledge will be fulfilled. He is faithful Who promised.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I have given you more than one opportunity to step away from your claim that they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ... and you have refused to do so.

Even in the few opportunities today you refuse to admit that what you claimed in Post 1804 is error.

Not only do they not have to believe

so you're another one who believes people "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ???

why does that not surprise me

that both you and brightfame52 claim mankind "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" reveals you have been duped to believe a lie from the pit.

you continue in your ungodly, sinful behaviors only because you believe you're "chosen" or "elect" so you will not be cast into the lake of fire. boy, the god of this world sure has you blinded ...


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I just don't like his commentaries and opinions left unrefuted.

of course it would never dawn on you or brightfame52 that others "don't like [your] commentaries and opinions left unrefuted"
.

 

[rogerg]

of course it would never dawn on you or brightfame52 that others "don't like [your] commentaries and opinions left unrefuted"
.

Huh? So, go ahead and refute them if you can - no one has said not to.

 

[Cameron143]

Huh? So, go ahead and refute them if you can - no one has said not to.

While you are on roger, I was thinking more about atheism. God has placed eternity in our hearts and the knowledge of Himself in our conscience. So it appears that at first people would be simply denying what they ultimately knew to be true. But when people continue in sin God does darken their hearts and sear their consciences, and they may well come to believe that God does not exist.

 

[rogerg]

While you are on roger, I was thinking more about atheism. God has placed eternity in our hearts and the knowledge of Himself in our conscience. So it appears that at first people would be simply denying what they ultimately knew to be true. But when people continue in sin God does darken their hearts and sear their consciences, and they may well come to believe that God does not exist.

I would have to disagree, Cameron143. God gives spiritual discernment but only to those whom He has made born again when He makes them born-again, not before then. On an intellectual level, those unsaved may have an awareness of God but in a superficial sense, however, to truly have an understanding of God and of His salvation, is only given by Him on the spiritual, not the intellectual level. Man's intellect, of itself, can never find God nor comprehend things spiritual. Everyone is born being natural man so they were never in a position to be spiritually neutral.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Cameron143]

I would have to disagree, Cameron143. God gives spiritual discernment but only to those whom He has made born again when He makes them born-again, not before then. On an intellectual level, those unsaved may have an awareness of God but in a superficial sense, however, to truly have an understanding of God and of His salvation, is only given by Him on the spiritual, not the intellectual level. Man's intellect, of itself, can never find God nor comprehend things spiritual. Everyone is born being natural man so they were never in a position to be spiritually neutral.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

This isn't a salvation issue. It's about atheists.

 

[rogerg]

so you're another one who believes people "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" ???


why does that not surprise me

Correct. I believe there are no preconditions to salvation besides that God had chosen that person for it.

that both you and brightfame52 claim mankind "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" reveals you have been duped to believe a lie from the pit.

And what would that be? Not believing that man can take salvation from the hand of the Saviour? And your comment
of "do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge regarding salvation and
the fruit of the Spirit and places man back under law and works.

you continue in your ungodly, sinful behaviors only because you believe you're "chosen" or "elect" so you will not be cast into the lake of fire. boy, the god of this world sure has you blinded ...


Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

Poppycock! You're under law and works, not grace.

 

[rogerg]

This isn't a salvation issue. It's about atheists.

They are atheists because they have not been saved/born-again, so in not being born-again, they do not, and they cannot, understand/know God. The two are interrelated. That actually was my point when we began the atheist discussion.

 

[Cameron143]

They are atheists because they have not been saved/born-again, so in not being born-again, they do not, and they cannot, understand/know God. The two are interrelated. That actually was my point when we began the atheist discussion.

One can know that God exists through conscience and creation according to Romans 1. Ecclesiastes 3 says God has placed eternity in our hearts. So mankind has an innate understanding that God exists. And it is possible to know of the existence of God and not be born again.
I would agree that in order to know God intimately as in John 17:3 one must be born again.

 

[rogerg]

please provide the number of the post submitted by me where I ever stated trust brings spiritual rebirth.

You said you first have to have trust in order to be saved, didn't you? Becoming born-again accompanies and is only from salvation.

nope ... read the verse again, rogerg:

Ephesians 1:

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


vs 13 - after that ye heard the word of truth, ye trusted ...
vs 13 - after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated ... born again)
vs 14 - the holy Spirit of promise is the earnest of our inheritance. According to you, your faith is the "earnest" (money) of the inheritance. Talk about trusting in your "works" ...

The holy Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance.

The word "earnest" is translated from the Greek word arrabón

HELPS Word-studies:

728 arrhabṓn – properly, an installment; a deposit ("down-payment") which guarantees the balance (the full purchase-price).728 /arrhabṓn ("down-payment pledge") is the regular term in NT times for "earnest-money," i.e. advance-payment that guarantees the rest will be given. 728 (arrhabṓn) then represents full security backed by the purchaser who supplies sufficient proof they will fulfill the entire pledge (promise).

"after ye heard the word of truth": spiritual hearing which is given from spiritual rebirth and is a fruit of the Spirit, it is not human hearing. "after that" is in the aorist,
"after that ye believed": belief which is given from spiritual rebirth and is a fruit of the Spirit.
Faith comes FROM and BY the Holy Spirit and only upon becoming born again; becoming born again, by being saved.
Faith is the manifestation of the seal (emblem) of the Holy Spirit.

[Heb 11:1 KJV] 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Being indwelt, as opposed to being sealed, are two different things.

 

[rogerg]

One can know that God exists through conscience and creation according to Romans 1. Ecclesiastes 3 says God has placed eternity in our hearts. So mankind has an innate understanding that God exists. And it is possible to know of the existence of God and not be born again.
I would agree that in order to know God intimately as in John 17:3 one must be born again.

When you say "an innate understanding that God exists", I believe the Bible tells us otherwise. Notice the fool says in his heart there is no God. I believe all of the unsaved on the spiritual level, are those fools.

[Psa 53:1 KJV] 1 [[To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.

[Rom 1:23 KJV] 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I believe that God, in Romans 1, is saying the unsaved man SHOULD know Him, yet they do not. Natural man does not have spiritual discernment, and spiritual discernment is what is missing in Romans 1. Regarding Ecc 3, did you mean verse 3:11?

[Ecc 3:11 KJV] 11 He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

I think it is saying that "no man can find out the work that God maketh". God has set a knowledge of the world in their hearts but a knowledge of the world is not the same as a knowledge of God. Consequently, man, of himself, cannot know God unless given him.

[Jhn 17:3 KJV] 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

As I understand the above verse, it is saying that in order to know God and Jesus Christ, they first must have eternal life as a prerequisite. Until and unless that occurs, they can know neither God nor Christ. So natural man of himself, cannot know God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

your comment
of "do anything but continue being ungodly sinners" demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge

you need to tell that to brightfame52 ... brightfame52 is the one who said they "do not have to believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".

I have been trying to get brightfame52 to step away from that lie since he submitted it ... and you're the one who agrees with brightfame52 ... you even gave me a thumbs down at Post 3391 when I asked brightfame52 to acknowledge that his statement is in error. Oh, he's trying to rationalize and cover his error, but he will not admit that it is not okay to "continue being ungodly sinners".

Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
.

 

[Cameron143]

When you say "an innate understanding that God exists", I believe the Bible tells us otherwise. Notice the fool says in his heart there is no God. I believe all of the unsaved on the spiritual level, are those fools.

[Psa 53:1 KJV] 1 [[To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David.]] The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.

[Rom 1:23 KJV] 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

I believe that God, in Romans 1, is saying the unsaved man SHOULD know Him, yet they do not. Natural man does not have spiritual discernment, and spiritual discernment is what is missing in Romans 1. Regarding Ecc 3, did you mean verse 3:11?

[Ecc 3:11 KJV] 11 He hath made every [thing] beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.

I think it is saying that "no man can find out the work that God maketh". God has set a knowledge of the world in their hearts but a knowledge of the world is not the same as a knowledge of God. Consequently, man, of himself, cannot know God unless given him.

[Jhn 17:3 KJV] 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

As I understand the above verse, it is saying that in order to know God and Jesus Christ, they first must have eternal life as a prerequisite. Until and unless that occurs, they can know neither God nor Christ. So natural man of himself, cannot know God.

It's not even that hard. There are people who believe God exists who aren't born again. There's your proof.

 

[Magenta]

I believe that God, in Romans 1, is saying the unsaved man SHOULD know Him, yet they do not.

Psalm 19:1

 

[Magenta]

I believe that God, in Romans 1, is saying the unsaved man SHOULD know Him, yet they do not.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

 

[rogerg]

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness
and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood
by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were
thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

They were not given spiritual discernment. They understood on a superficial level but not the spiritual level. God
cannot be found by/through human intellect.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[rogerg]

It's not even that hard. There are people who believe God exists who aren't born again. There's your proof.

Maybe that's how man defines atheism, but not how the Bible defines it, and the Bible is the authority in things spiritual, not man.