Where is John the Apostle now?

[Sipsey]

No need to insult me. You have the right to disagree, but calling me delusional isn't right. It makes sense. Jesus said John wouldn't die until He returns. So, he's still alive now. It's nothing revolutionary, just something that you've got to pick up on if your smart.

John 21:23 (KJV)
[23] Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

John 21:22-23 (NLTSE)
[22] Jesus replied, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you? As for you, follow me." [23] So the rumor spread among the community of believers that this disciple wouldn't die. But that isn't what Jesus said at all. He only said, "If I want him to remain alive until I return, what is that to you?"

 

[posthuman]

In John 21.22, Jesus says that John would remain alive until He returns. So, where is John now? Where has he been? Did Jesus keep anyone else alive? John is the oldest living person if it's just him, at over 2000 years old. So, where is he? Wouldn't he be in the news? Wouldn't he be out preaching and healing people and working wonders and miracles?

I think he is either one of two things: 1. being held captive somewhere. or 2. in hiding somewhere. Those are the only explanations I can come up with for not knowing his whereabouts.

It is a fairly well-known LDS teaching that John is still alive and wandering around the earth.
It is also an LDS teaching that before Joe Smith faked a new scripture, the true gospel had been lost for over 1500 years. because of course, follow Joe or else.

The implication of these two LDS teachings is that the apostle John is still alive yet is either apostate or for some reason stopped witnessing to anyone within 50 or an hundred years or so of the resurrection.

i have yet to meet a mormon that would explain that. none of the ones i've talked to could explain why John doesn't show up to their board of directors meetings, either..

which is weird. if John was here i would kind of expect him to show up to at least some of the more important events in the last 2000 years of church history.

 

[posthuman]

You’re running down a rabbit trail of your own making. It will lead to many false doctrines.

well to be fair whether John is still milling about on earth refusing to involve himself in the organized church or not is actually a topic that has come up basically ever since John 21 happened.

 

[JohnB]

No need to insult me. You have the right to disagree, but calling me delusional isn't right. It makes sense. Jesus said John wouldn't die until He returns. So, he's still alive now. It's nothing revolutionary, just something that you've got to pick up on if your smart.

He is not alive now, he died. He is said to have lived to old age, dying at Ephesus sometime after AD 98, during the reign of Trajan

 

[Magenta]

It is a fairly well-known LDS teaching that John is still alive and wandering around the earth.
It is also an LDS teaching that before Joe Smith faked a new scripture, the true gospel had been lost for over 1500 years. because of course, follow Joe or else.

The implication of these two LDS teachings is that the apostle John is still alive yet is either apostate or for some reason stopped witnessing to anyone within 50 or an hundred years or so of the resurrection.

i have yet to meet a mormon that would explain that. none of the ones i've talked to could explain why John doesn't show up to their board of directors meetings, either..

which is weird. if John was here i would kind of expect him to show up to at least some of the more important events in the last 2000 years of church history.

I did not realize John the apostle being alive still was a Mormon belief...

Thank you for letting us know .

 

[DanielJosephBoucher]

well to be fair whether John is still milling about on earth refusing to involve himself in the organized church or not is actually a topic that has come up basically ever since John 21 happened.

Well this brings up the idea of whether the "orgainized church" is really the true Church. Wouldn't the true Church have John the Apostle with them since he's still alive? So, it proves the "organized church" to not be the true Church because they don't have John. Because the "organized church" is not the true Church, it makes me believe that they could be the ones holding John captive if that is where John is, being held captive.

 

[posthuman]

i dunno if you can tell but I think the strongest bit of evidence that speaks to the OP question apart from John 21:23 is that no one has heard from John the beloved for 1,800 years and he doesn't seem to me to be the kind of guy who just flakes out for thousands of years.

 

[Magenta]

Well this brings up the idea of whether the orgainized church is really the true Church. Wouldn't the true Church have
John the Apostle with them? So, it proves the "organized church" to not be the true Church because they don't have John.

That's called a logical fallacy and is in fact more likely a number of fallacies.

 

[posthuman]

Well this brings up the idea of whether the orgainized church is really the true Church. Wouldn't the true Church have John the Apostle with them? So, it proves the "organized church" to not be the true Church because they don't have John.

That's true that it brings it into question, but it isn't proof because you haven't produced John and let him give his own reason for why he hasn't been heard from.

but didn't the apostles openly oppose the Pharisees, preaching the gospel daily in the temple?
just because Judaism had lost the path didn't make them all just keep quiet and hidden forever.
so why would John have given up?

which is why i guess you suppose he's been locked in a cell under the Vatican since 200AD...?

 

[DanielJosephBoucher]

That's true that it brings it into question, but it isn't proof because you haven't produced John and let him give his own reason for why he hasn't been heard from.

but didn't the apostles openly oppose the Pharisees, preaching the gospel daily in the temple?
just because Judaism had lost the path didn't make them all just keep quiet and hidden forever.
so why would John have given up?

which is why i guess you suppose he's been locked in a cell under the Vatican since 200AD...?

Well, he could be in the Vatican, but why would they keep him there? Because it's a secret place that only the Roman Catholic prelates have access to? I think they could just keep him prisoner anywhere, maybe move him around from time to time. I figured it was sometime before 1000 A.D. and I forget why I have that date. What makes you figure 200 A.D.? Wouldn't it have been earlier, though, since there is no historical account of John being around after the New Testament?

 

[posthuman]

Well all that said, 'John must be held prisoner being tortured somewhere' is admittedly a novel approach to the conundrums Tha present when we pretend John 21:23 is unimportant.

But now we have the issue of why a God well-known for busting His apostles out of prison let specifically John rot in a dungeon for two thousand years.
and we also have the problem of who could have imprisoned for that time period.

so i see this as potentially yet another catholic-bashing party, which I don't particularly enjoy.

The mormons for their part, at least those i have talked with, say John is just quietly watching and waiting for the right time to jump out of the shadows and let everyone know the truth about Benny Hinn in the nick of time.

still seems out of character. but i don't really know him personally, it's just that when you read what people have written and you know it's really heartfelt, ya kinda feel a connection, you know?

interesting topic.

=]

 

[posthuman]

I figured it was sometime before 1000A.D. and I forget why I have that date. What makes you figure 200A.D.?

Because the last known record of him in history iirc is his exile to Patmos and that is no later than 90's AD. 200 was generous of me.

There is no governmental or institutional authority I know of that is still around and could have imprisoned him around 1-200AD, because the Catholic Church didn't really exist until much later - but I guess one could conspiratorially argue that Rome kept him jailed and eventually the papists took him when Rome collapsed.

 

[DanielJosephBoucher]

That's true that it brings it into question, but it isn't proof because you haven't produced John and let him give his own reason for why he hasn't been heard from.

but didn't the apostles openly oppose the Pharisees, preaching the gospel daily in the temple?
just because Judaism had lost the path didn't make them all just keep quiet and hidden forever.
so why would John have given up?

which is why i guess you suppose he's been locked in a cell under the Vatican since 200AD...?

Yeah, and the Vatican has only been around since the 4th century.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Yes, this is LDS teaching all the way.

Q: Are John the Beloved and the Three Nephites actually still on the earth? If so, what are they doing?

A: Yes, the Savior granted to John the Beloved and the Three Nephites their desire to tarry on the earth. What they’re doing is bringing souls unto the Lord until He comes again (see D&C 7:2; 3 Nephi 28:9).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org...-the-earth-if-so-what-are-they-doing?lang=eng

 

[DanielJosephBoucher]

so i see this as potentially yet another catholic-bashing party, which I don't particularly enjoy.

=]

I'm not bashing the Catholics; I know them well, I used to consider myself one of them. But now I know who they really are, so truth must be told.

 

[presidente]

In John 21.22, Jesus says that John would remain alive until He returns. So, where is John now? Where has he been? Did Jesus keep anyone else alive? John is the oldest living person if it's just him, at over 2000 years old. So, where is he? Wouldn't he be in the news? Wouldn't he be out preaching and healing people and working wonders and miracles?

I think he is either one of two things: 1. being held captive somewhere. or 2. in hiding somewhere. Those are the only explanations I can come up with for not knowing his whereabouts.

I had a friend who read all kinds of books with esoteric theories. He said that there was a story that John invited people to his funeral, disappeared, but in the box, instead of his body, there were flowers... something like that. He thought John was still alive and was prester John in the middle ages. I believe that was the man who wrote to the pope in Rome about Peter being the little rock, not the rock on which the church was built.

Apparently there is an old belief or legend, that John was still alive. The Mormons adopted that belief also.

But John made it clear that Jesus did not say that the disciple would remain until H ecame again.

I heard a preacher say you could see a bit of rivalry between John and Peter in the book. He paraphrased it something like this 'I followed Jesus afar off. Peter denied him. We ran to the tomb together. I beat him. Jesus told Peter he was going to die. He said if I live until Jesus comes back, what is that to you?'

 

[presidente]

Isn't Methuselah suppose to be immortal? I think that's what I read.

No, it says that he died.

Genesis 5

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

That is the oldest recorded age in the Bible, except people say his father didn't die. It doesn't specifically say that, but some people interpret it that way.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

IMO when the Lord said this generation He meant the generation who would see everything mentioned in Matthew 24

He tells them Of two times one applicable to Jerusalems deetriction in 70 ad

And he’s also telling them About the end of the world another time far off

“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? ( Jesus just told them the City and temple would be destroyed soon )

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”( he’s also talking about the far away end of the world )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

some in Matthew is about what happened in 70 ad when rome besieged the sort and destroyed the temple other things he’s talking about concern the end of the world and his second coming

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:29-30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So he is actually talking about people until the end of the world d also he was talking about the desolation of Jerusalem

this time

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. ( 70 ad)

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this part is about the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad but the end of the world and Jesus second coming hasn’t happened yet which he’s also talking about in Matthew 24 there’s two subjects he’s addressing immediate future of Jerusalem and it’s temple

“And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thisbhappened when Jerusalem was beeeoged and destroyed in 70 ad

abut this part hasn’t happened yet

“And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? ( the temples destruction )

and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in Matthew 24 Jesus is addressing until the end of this world and his return from heaven also he’s told about the great tribulation and destruction of Jerusalem which they endured

 

[ChristsChild]

No, it says that he died.

Genesis 5

21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech.
26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.

That is the oldest recorded age in the Bible, except people say his father didn't die. It doesn't specifically say that, but some people interpret it that way.

Thanks.

 

[awelight]

In John 21.22, Jesus says that John would remain alive until He returns. So, where is John now? Where has he been? Did Jesus keep anyone else alive? John is the oldest living person if it's just him, at over 2000 years old. So, where is he? Wouldn't he be in the news? Wouldn't he be out preaching and healing people and working wonders and miracles?

I think he is either one of two things: 1. being held captive somewhere. or 2. in hiding somewhere. Those are the only explanations I can come up with for not knowing his whereabouts.

The simple answer is John is with the Lord. Having passed from death into life.

Your question is based upon an incorrect understanding of what the Lord said to Peter. Peter shows his imperfections here, the same imperfections we all suffer from, as he was jealous of the position that John had with Jesus. Peter decided to butt his nose into the conversation and was rebuked by the Lord, who knew of this jealousy.

John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

The purpose of this statement, was to remind Peter that he had a certain place, just as we all do. Think of the eye, hand and foot of 1 Cor. 12:14-18. So by asking Peter this question, the Lord was saying: What I do with this person (John) is of no concern of yours. Peter was also guilty here of Covetousness and being unsatisfied with his God given state.

Obviously, others must have overheard or Peter didn't get the message. Any who, someone started the story that John would not die.

John 21:23a Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that this disciple should not die:...

But, John who is the author of the Epistle and one of the subjects of these verses corrects this himself.

John 21:23b...yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

So John was never told he wasn't going to die and we can infer, that he was not told that he would tarry until Christ came again because the statement: If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? Is written as a "third class" conditional statement. A third class condition is to be understood in the negative. That is, Christ did not will. If Christ had meant it to be understood in the positive, then it would have been written as a "first class" conditional statement and could be translated as "since" instead of "if".