Ukraine the bad guy?

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Russia is good at disinformation. They know how to poison people both figuratively and literally. They’re present in every corner of our society. Repeating their narrative constantly. Making us divided and polarized.

They’re funding both sides of the aisle. Democrats versus Republicans. Conservatives versus liberals. Pro life versus pro choice. Gays versus straights. The LGBT community versus the anti LGBT community and so forth.

We can’t do that because we don’t understand the Russian culture, and because we can’t force people to fall back in line. Our constitutional rights are being played against us. It’s like the alligators feasting on a party of one legged bunnies.

I have been to Russia several times. They do not have our rights to criticize the authorities. Putin knows that at some point NATO will no longer have the full support from the western world. A ceasefire would give him time to regroup. Ukraine has now to react swiftly or else eventually will the Kremlin be dragging this on for years until the West are too divided to offer any resistance.
 
Naaa Putin is the commander in chief of NATO if you ask me.
despite all the social media saying other wise.
Biden is Putin's kernal and the rest of NATO are Putin's soldiers there all demons inside of humans that have been grown in laboratories and had there minds removed.

Have you not noticed how brain dead biden is.

Or how there all singing from the same hymnbook, when it come to everyone of them saying we just want peace from Putin to Ukraine to NATO to all of them ,. Ha what a joke.

You watch it will all be over soon and nobody will face war crimes, as no nation with nuclear bombs ever do including the USA and UK after they've invaded Some one.

The only reason Russia is now the bad guys is because the heat had to be taken of America who has been seen as the bad guys to the rest of the world for so long when it comes to invading another country.

There is no bad guy and good guy when it comes to the leaders of the world there all bluffing there all bad guys. Trust me I know my poker.
 
Susanna said:
They’re funding both sides of the aisle. Democrats versus Republicans. Conservatives versus liberals. Pro life versus pro choice. Gays versus straights. The LGBT community versus the anti LGBT community and so forth.
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I wish it was just Russia doing that to the US... No, in the US we are doing that to ourselves, unfortunately. Are some Russians amplifying that, sure; but this country is divided on it's own.
Susanna said:
Putin knows that at some point NATO will no longer have the full support from the western world. A ceasefire would give him time to regroup. Ukraine has now to react swiftly or else eventually will the Kremlin be dragging this on for years until the West are too divided to offer any resistance.
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Well, there are so many reasons that many of us think that diplomacy is a better bet. You cannot take the upper hand in a war by sitting in your own country and getting blown up, hoping that the enemy will make blunder after blunder. If Ukraine isn't able to go after Russia's productive capacity, this war can last forever: they will just keep coming... Personally, I think America is getting to a point where we are sick of, as Trump says "endless loser wars" where there is just death and destruction because something stupid happened. And... Ukrainians don't seem willing or capable of pulling off attacks on Russia's production capacity. AND if they used advanced weapons provided by us to pull off such an attack... Russia will simply consider that an attack by us. Put plainly, I would not be willing to spill a single drop of any American's blood for some presumptuous revolutionaries halfway across the globe- let alone risk the direct hostilities that would lead to nuclear war. Not because I'm concerned about my life; but because it's dumb.

I don't know how the Ukrainian government is getting out of this intact, or without some kind of concessions to separatist parties; and nobody wants to wait 5 or 10 years for that to play out and listen to the stories of Ukrainians and Russians getting slaughtered everyday on the news. America has enough of it's own problems- now more than ever; we don't need to be dealing with Europe's problems too.
 
Fundaamental said:
Naaa Putin is the commander in chief of NATO if you ask me.
despite all the social media saying other wise.
Biden is Putin's kernal and the rest of NATO are Putin's soldiers there all demons inside of humans that have been grown in laboratories and had there minds removed.

Have you not noticed how brain dead biden is.

Or how there all singing from the same hymnbook, when it come to everyone of them saying we just want peace from Putin to Ukraine to NATO to all of them ,. Ha what a joke.

You watch it will all be over soon and nobody will face war crimes, as no nation with nuclear bombs ever do including the USA and UK after they've invaded Some one.

The only reason Russia is now the bad guys is because the heat had to be taken of America who has been seen as the bad guys to the rest of the world for so long when it comes to invading another country.

There is no bad guy and good guy when it comes to the leaders of the world there all bluffing there all bad guys. Trust me I know my poker.
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That would not make sense if you think about it. if the Kremlin/Putin was attacked with drones and the US is actually involved in the attack as the Kremlin is saying then the US is acting outside of NATO because he would have had to have NATO'S approval first or it would weaken the partnership between NATO and the US... an attack on a NATO member is an attack on all members...
 
ZNP said:
What debate? Everyone agrees that Russia is a "bad guy" and even those against the US taking the lead to defend Ukraine liken Putin to a cartel leader. No one is debating that.

Then I have yet to see any credible response to the claim that NATO and Europe should be taking the lead and not the US. I have not seen any debate on that point either.

Those of us against the war are arguing for peace talks, what is the issue here and let's resolve it. The war does not profit the Ukrainians and I agree that Ukraine is essential for Russia's national security, so why can't we find common ground for peace? I have not heard any debate on this.

Instead we are told that if we disagree with the Official line then you will be censored and put under observation.
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Why should Ukraine be essential for Russia's peace? If Ukraine, why not Poland? You may as well include Bulgaria, East Germany, the Baltic states and the whole of the former USSR.

There is no disPutin that the reason that there is no common ground for peace is Putin himself. He has publicly stated that the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy. He has made it clear by word and action that he intends to reverse that. He did quite well, even taking over Ukrainian territory in 2014. Would you accept Mexico's right to take back land that America took by force? Putin has even less right to invade Ukraine.

Who is censoring you and putting you under observation? Russia is fining and/or imprisoning those who publicly criticise the war. Even to call it a war is illegal. Ukraine, regrettably, may follow suit. It's stupid and pointless for Ukraine to make themselves a police state like Russia.
 
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Gideon300 said:
Why should Ukraine be essential for Russia's peace? If Ukraine, why not Poland? You may as well include Bulgaria, East Germany, the Baltic states and the whole of the former USSR.

There is no disPutin that the reason that there is no common ground for peace is Putin himself. He has publicly stated that the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy. He has made it clear by word and action that he intends to reverse that. He did quite well, even taking over Ukrainian territory in 2014. Would you accept Mexico's right to take back land that America took by force? Putin has even less right to invade Ukraine.

Who is censoring you and putting you under observation? Russia is fining and/or imprisoning those who publicly criticise the war. Even to call it a war is illegal. Ukraine, regrettably, may follow suit. It's stupid and pointless for Ukraine to make themselves a police state like Russia.
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The same as the breadbasket of the United states is from Texas to Illinois,,,It's where the vast majority of farm land is that the USSR relied on...
 
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SomeDisciple said:
Yeah, and frankly I've been sick and tired of it since day 1... and it's doing nothing but actually making me less and less sympathetic to the Ukrainians.
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Living under the present Ukrainian regime is a nightmare. Recruiting means a beating, a gunbarrel in the ribs then thrown into the back of a van. Especially if you have Russian blood. Opposition parties, free speech and journalism is dead as a doorknob. Free and fair elections are a distant memory.

Frankly the regimes of BOTH wretched countries make me want to puke.
I truly pity the non-belligerent victimized Ukrainian people and the non-belligerent victimized Russian people caught in the crossfire between warring Mafia crime families.

The problem in this scenario are the bloodthirsty warmongers who agitate endlessly for escalation of hostilities, forment irrational hatred, and demand that more bodies be thrown into the meatgrinder.

And that includes several posters on this thread. You know who you are. Gods judgment does not sleep don't you ever forget it.
 
cv5 said:
Courts out to lunch in Ukraine nowadays? Or is vigilantism now the norm? Masks, automatic weapons, terrorizing citizens for supposed crimes. What a nightmare.
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Ukraine is no different than Russia or the USA. Thugs are in charge of the government. And Zelensky has crossed the line too many times. Russia is preparing to take him out (of the equation).
 
Nehemiah6 said:
Ukraine is no different than Russia or the USA. Thugs are in charge of the government. And Zelensky has crossed the line too many times. Russia is preparing to take him out (of the equation).
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the drone strike was a really bad call....
 
JohnDB said:
But of course choosing the side that the whole world says is evil (including God)is not a wise choice to begin with.
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The real question today is whether Putin's regime is any more evil than Biden's regime. The fact that America is being systematically destroyed from within proves that the Biden regime is worse.
And Ukraine s no better. But the war in Ukraine is an excuse to deflect attention from the war within the USA between the government and the people. The Biden government is at war with America.
 
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Gideon300 said:
Why should Ukraine be essential for Russia's peace? If Ukraine, why not Poland? You may as well include Bulgaria, East Germany, the Baltic states and the whole of the former USSR.

There is no disPutin that the reason that there is no common ground for peace is Putin himself. He has publicly stated that the collapse of the USSR was a tragedy. He has made it clear by word and action that he intends to reverse that. He did quite well, even taking over Ukrainian territory in 2014. Would you accept Mexico's right to take back land that America took by force? Putin has even less right to invade Ukraine.

Who is censoring you and putting you under observation? Russia is fining and/or imprisoning those who publicly criticise the war. Even to call it a war is illegal. Ukraine, regrettably, may follow suit. It's stupid and pointless for Ukraine to make themselves a police state like Russia.
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Who are you going to blame when Russia rains down nuclear fire on to your head?

Just don't blame me. I want an immediate cease-fire an end to the bloodshed an end of hostilities and peace negotiations immediately.

So what do you want? Victory at all costs? Fight to the last Ukrainian and Russian? Because that's what @JohnDB seems to want.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
The real question today is whether Putin's regime is any more evil than Biden's regime. The fact that America is being systematically destroyed from within proves that the Biden regime is worse.
And Ukraine s no better. But the war in Ukraine is an excuse to deflect attention from the war within the USA between the government and the people. The Biden government is at war with America.
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This present conflict in Ukraine is a proxy war that has vast geopolitical implications.

BRICS getting bigger by the day, constantly talking about a new reserve currency scheme.
Saudi Arabia pivoting from the United States to the East, Iran Russia and China.
OPEC maintaining solidarity and expanding, rejecting American influence.
And ultimately a wholesale repudiation of the USD franchise, with its threats, sanctions and exporting inflation and exorbitant privilege.

It is highly likely that China and Russia are in bed together in this thing. The US cannot afford a war with China now and it's certainly cannot afford one when it's dead ass broke after USD is gone bye bye. That is what is really going behind the scenes. Among the many many other moving chessboard pieces.
 
iamsoandso said:
That would not make sense if you think about it. if the Kremlin/Putin was attacked with drones and the US is actually involved in the attack as the Kremlin is saying then the US is acting outside of NATO because he would have had to have NATO'S approval first or it would weaken the partnership between NATO and the US... an attack on a NATO member is an attack on all members...
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no if you believe that you'll believe anything.

It's the creed befor the deed thing with all wars.
There is no deed befor a creed in any war Wake up man smell the coffee ☕🤩😱😊

Nato are the real àldolf Hitler's of this world, Well nato are the enforces of Satans ruling so to speak so is Putin so are all the leaders of our world.

Wake up man there all playing each other of against each other.

You know you play a game of poker with a stranger, the stranger doesn't know that all the other people at your table are all your friends. you and all your friends just play along until the stranger hands over all his money.

The stranger leaves none the wiser with no money.
 
Nehemiah6 said:
The real question today is whether Putin's regime is any more evil than Biden's regime. The fact that America is being systematically destroyed from within proves that the Biden regime is worse.
And Ukraine s no better. But the war in Ukraine is an excuse to deflect attention from the war within the USA between the government and the people. The Biden government is at war with America.
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Corruption and governments go hand in hand. It's not a yes/no type question (because there always is some)but more of a percentage and sliding scale....and how noticeable is it? Is it directly affecting you?

So far from the reports that I have seen....American people have been the worst by fundraising money and pocketing it. There were a couple mayors in Ukraine that have been investigated and caught stealing government money. Of course they are punished and the money retrieved.

Back during WWII the US government had to pay off the Mafia so they could load battleships...dockworkers were always mafia controlled.

Crime and graft are rampant during war. There are those types of people everywhere in the world looking to profit from tragedy. But no more so than anywhere else.

Most of the genuine reports are as a result of intelligence gathering ....
Literally the WHOLE WORLD is watching. And some know the places to look. Now is not the time to steal.

Our intelligence networks can be really dumb or really smart with little in-between. Right now...they are being smart. And a bit over reaching.

Just because some dweeb gets paid a pittance for repeating or inventing reasons for Russia to invade Ukraine is no reason to kill him or incarcerate him in the federal penitentiary. But whatever....my opinion is not for sale...so I'm safe. (At the moment...because it isn't against the governments wishes)

Over 75% of Americans are standing with Ukraine. That's an astonishing number. Where if it drops to 74% it makes sensational headlines. That right there is a mandate to keep our word with the treaty we signed. Give the Ukranians all they need.
 
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cv5 said:
The entire universe understands the context of this conflict. So where were you?
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I'm 71 and ex military. The context is pretty straightforward. Putin wants his empire back. 2014 showed Putin that the world was not going to hinder him. He embarked on a military expansion, using the money from oil and gas to do so. Once he was satisfied with the expansion, he looked for excuses to invade Ukraine. He found some, lied his head off about the rest and voila! You have a war. He can't even tell the truth about that. "Special operation". There's nothing special about it. Except that Ukraine would not lie down and die and much of the world decided that Putin had gone too far this time.
 
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cv5 said:
Living under the present Ukrainian regime is a nightmare. Recruiting means a beating, a gunbarrel in the ribs then thrown into the back of a van. Especially if you have Russian blood. Opposition parties, free speech and journalism is dead as a doorknob. Free and fair elections are a distant memory.

Frankly the regimes of BOTH wretched countries make me want to puke.
I truly pity the non-belligerent victimized Ukrainian people and the non-belligerent victimized Russian people caught in the crossfire between warring Mafia crime families.

The problem in this scenario are the bloodthirsty warmongers who agitate endlessly for escalation of hostilities, forment irrational hatred, and demand that more bodies be thrown into the meatgrinder.

And that includes several posters on this thread. You know who you are. Gods judgment does not sleep don't you ever forget it.
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You’re entitled to your opinion, but I’m glad you don’t have any executive power.

Is it warmongering to point out that Russia has invaded a sovereign country? I fail to see that.

You really shouldn’t be threatening people with Gods judgement. You come across hypocritical. On one side you’re talking about peace and on the other side you’re defending the invasion. How will that hold up against the judgment of God?
 
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