Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Your interpretation of those Galatians verses is very superficial... it suggests that overcoming opposites is the way to Christ, that by leaving behind divisions we become the heirs of God.

Ephesians 2:14 is the direct assertion that relates.
It is not saying that overcoming opposites is the way to Christ; it is saying that there are no opposites nor differences to/for those
who have become saved - all have become one in Christ- it is from salvation, not to salvation.
 
Apr 25, 2023
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Personal bias isn't inspired, is it?
His bias generally only arises around topics of sex...

Even here a few times he is fine.

You want a black and white conclusion, I'm suggesting that receiving the Spirit yourself is better...

Now you don't have to rely on others at all.
 
Apr 25, 2023
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It is not saying that overcoming opposites is the way to Christ; it is saying that there are no opposites nor differences to/for those
who have become saved - all have become one in Christ- it is from salvation, not to salvation.
You like semantics but it only shows how superficial your understanding is...

By dropping the opposites our separate self drops and the Spirit fills the space, now we actually know the one... are the one in motion.
 

Cameron143

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His bias generally only arises around topics of sex...

Even here a few times he is fine.

You want a black and white conclusion, I'm suggesting that receiving the Spirit yourself is better...

Now you don't have to rely on others at all.
What is your basis for assuming I do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me?
I'm not looking for anything except to try to understand what you believe.
But bias is antithetical to inspiration.
 

rogerg

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You like semantics but it only shows how superficial your understanding is...

By dropping the opposites our separate self drops and the Spirit fills the space, now we actually know the one... are the one in motion.
Huh?
 
Apr 25, 2023
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What is your basis for assuming I do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in me?
I'm not looking for anything except to try to understand what you believe.
But bias is antithetical to inspiration.
Paul talks about how he goes into personal bias and there is death, then goes into the Spirit and is alive... you want an either/or because it is not your experience, but he is conveying a reality and I am saying the same.

I am simply suggesting that in places even his writings in the cannon are dead.

If you had the Spirit you would recognize it, but you are disputing my assertions on an intellectual level which shows a lack of such insight.
 

Cameron143

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Paul talks about how he goes into personal bias and there is death, then goes into the Spirit and is alive... you want an either/or because it is not your experience, but he is conveying a reality and I am saying the same.

I am simply suggesting that in places even his writings in the cannon are dead.

If you had the Spirit you would recognize it, but you are disputing my assertions on an intellectual level which shows a lack of such insight.
Well you are correct about 1 thing...someone's discernment is off.
 

rogerg

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Jul 13, 2021
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Paul talks about how he goes into personal bias and there is death, then goes into the Spirit and is alive... you want an either/or because it is not your experience, but he is conveying a reality and I am saying the same.

I am simply suggesting that in places even his writings in the cannon are dead.

If you had the Spirit you would recognize it, but you are disputing my assertions on an intellectual level which shows a lack of such insight.
God wrote the Bible, not Paul. Paul was God's instrument for doing so.
 

rogerg

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Contemplate what I said a bit and recall that God is one.

I have been as direct as words get.
[2Co 11:3 KJV]
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
 
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As an obvious example, the bible shares the common picture of cosmology for the day and even makes statements like the static nature of the earth is evidence of Gods power despite the fact we're actually travelling hundreds of thousands of miles per hour... which is something God would have surely been aware of.
 

Cameron143

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I think the general state of society shows the common understanding is not working.
I'm not at all interested in common understanding, just correct understanding. Wittingly or unwittingly, you have made yourself a higher arbiter of truth than scripture, and thus God.
 

ChristsChild

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Saint Augustine of Hippo [354-430 AD]"In this redemption, the blood of Christ was given, as it were as a price for us, by accepting which the devil was not enriched, but bound: that we might be loosened from his bonds, and that he might not with himself involve [us] in the meshes of sins, and so deliver to the destruction of the second and eternal death, any one of those whom Christ, free from all debt, had redeemed by pouring out his own blood unindebtedly; but that they who belong to the grace of Christ, foreknown, and predestinated, and elected before the foundation of the world, should only so far die as Christ Himself died for them, i.e. only by the death of the flesh, not of the spirit." Augustine, On the Trinity XIII:xv:19, trans. Arthur West Haddan, in A Select Library of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers of the Christian Church, First Series, ed. Philip Schaff, vol. 3 (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, repr. 1988), p. 178 https://cprc.co.uk/articles/covenant3/

The Canons of the Council of Orange 529 AD
CANON 3. If anyone says that the grace of God can be conferred as a result of human prayer, but that it is not grace itself which makes us pray to God, he contradicts the prophet Isaiah, or the Apostle who says the same thing, "I have been found by those who did not seek me; I have shown myself to those who did not ask for me" (Rom 10:20, quoting Isa. 65:1).
CANON 4. If anyone maintains that God awaits our will to be cleansed from sin, but does not confess that even our will to be cleansed comes to us through the infusion and working of the Holy Spirit, he resists the Holy Spirit himself who says through Solomon, "The will is prepared by the Lord" (Prov. 8:35, LXX), and the salutary word of the Apostle, "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure" (Phil. 2:13).


"Gottschalk of Orbais [803-868 AD] was the first, since the council of Orange (529), to apply so consistently the principles of later Augustine. He taught that God predestined both the elect to eternal life and the reprobate to eternal death. Several centuries would be needed until Thomas Bradwardine (c. 1290-1349), Gregory of Rimini (d. 1358) and John Wycliffe (c. 1330-1384) could voice the same ideas. Gottschalk’s life, rich in dramatic events, is an integral part of the cultural and political life of Germany, France, Italy and Croatia at the dawn of their history. However, Gottschalk of Orbais still remains in the shadow of his more famous contemporaries. Indeed, if a bibliography of the works that treat on Gottschalk is rather large, it can hardly be said that his life and teaching are thoroughly researched." http://gottschalk.inrebus.com/intro.html
See also: https://www.kerux.com/doc/2203A4.asp

Also: "All those impious persons and sinners for whom the Son of God came to redeem by shedding his own blood, those the omnipotent goodness of God predestined to life and irrevocably willed only those to be saved. And again all those impious persons and sinners for whom likewise the Son of God neither assumed a body nor prayed, I say that he did not shed [his] blood nor was in any way crucified for them. In fact, those whom he foreknew were going to be very evil and whom he very justly foreordained unto eternal torments into which they should be cast, he thoroughly does not want them in any way to be eternally saved.
Therefore, I very faithfully believe, very confidently speak, and likewise most certainly and fruitfully confess and most truthfully profess that our omnipotent God, the creator and maker of all creatures, has deigned to be the gratuitous repairer and restorer of all of the elect alone, but willed to be the Savior of none of the perpetually reprobate, the redeemer of none, and glorifier of none." https://prisonerofjoy-kirk.blogspot.com/2014/08/all-those-impious-persons-and-sinners.html

Martin Luther [1483-1546] Bondage of the Will: Sect. 101 - "What do I hear! Are we now inquiring whether or not God loves and hates, and not rather why He loves and hates? Our inquiry is, from what merit it is in us that He loves or hates. We know well enough, that God does not love or hate as we do; because, we love and hate mutably, but He loves and hates from an eternal and immutable nature; and hence it is, that accidents and passions do not pertain unto Him.

And it is this very state of the truth, that of necessity proves "Free-will" to be nothing at all; seeing that, the love and hatred of God towards men is immutable and eternal; existing, not only before there was any merit or work of "Free-will," but before the worlds were made; and that, all things take place in us from necessity, accordingly as He loved or loved not from all eternity. So that, not the love of God only, but even the manner of His love imposes on us necessity. Here then it may be seen, how much its invented ways of escape profit the Diatribe; for the more it attempts to get away from the truth, the more it runs upon it; with so little success does it fight against it!"
https://www.truecovenanter.com/truelutheran/luther_bow.html#pt2

John Calvin [1509-1564 AD] Institutes of the Christian Religion definitive edition published in 1559.

Canons of Dort [1618-1619] Second Head, Article 8 - "For this was the sovereign counsel, and most gracious will and purpose of God the Father, that the quickening and saving efficacy of the most precious death of His Son should extend to all the elect, for bestowing upon them alone the gift of justifying faith, thereby to bring them infallibly to salvation: that is, it was the will of God, that Christ by the blood of the cross, whereby He confirmed the new covenant, should effectually redeem out of every people, tribe, nation, and language, all those, and those only, who were from eternity chosen to salvation and given to Him by the Father; that He should confer upon them faith, which together with all the other saving gifts of the Holy Spirit, He purchased for them by His death; should purge them from all sin, both original and actual, whether committed before or after believing; and having faithfully preserved them even to the end, should at last bring them free from every spot and blemish to the enjoyment of glory in His own presence forever." https://prts.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Canons-of-Dort-with-Intro.pdf
This doesn't make sense. I thought God is the source of grace. Jesus said so.

Why are all those councils making it complicated?
 
Apr 25, 2023
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I'm not at all interested in common understanding, just correct understanding. Wittingly or unwittingly, you have made yourself a higher arbiter of truth than scripture, and thus God.
Still truth itself is the authority.

Your issue is based on the assumption that I'm making everything up, but I keep referencing the bible to support me... including its statements that we shouldn't cling to words.

It is true that if it didn't say these things I wouldn't be Christian in any sense, but because this is the truth I share it.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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