Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

[rogerg]

New International Version
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.

New Living Translation
Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”

English Standard Version
yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

New King James Version
knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

New American Standard Bible
nevertheless, knowing that a person is not justified by works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the Law; since by works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

NASB 1995
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

NASB 1977
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
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it's "of" - genitive - ownership.

 

[VARob]

Fair question - because it makes Christ alone the Saviour and without it, there cannot be grace, because something besides grace alone would be required from the recipient for salvation

Jesus Christ alone IS the Savior. Without him nobody could be saved. God loves people and made it available for anyone to be saved. He does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

But God does require something from people in order to save them, about the simplest thing He could: faith in Christ.

 

[rogerg]

It is not logic that "all" does not mean all, or that "all men every where" does not mean what it says.

We have to use the rules for interpretation the Bible set-forth for its interpretation. No verse of itself should be
taken as doctrine. We should compare other spiritually like verses to arrive at it. For example:

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[VARob]

We have to use the rules for interpretation the Bible set-forth for its interpretation. No verse of itself should be
taken as doctrine. We should compare other spiritually like verses to arrive at it. For example:

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

Agreed. No private interpretation. Suggesting that "all men every where" does not mean all men everywhere is private interpretation.

 

[rogerg]

Jesus Christ alone IS the Savior. Without him nobody could be saved. God loves people and made it available for anyone to be saved. He does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9).

But God does require something from people in order to save them, about the simplest thing He could: faith in Christ.

No, think about what you've just said. were it dependent upon anything but Christ, then He wouldn't/couldn't be the Saviour and
something would be required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition.

 

[rogerg]

Agreed. No private interpretation. Suggesting that "all men every where" does not mean all men everywhere is private interpretation.

It means that to find out who the "all men" are, is completed elsewhere. Using your definition would make people
co-saviours with Christ and that pov would contradict the entire Bible

 

[VARob]

No, think about what you've just said. were it dependent upon anything but Christ, then He wouldn't/couldn't be the Saviour and
something would be required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition.

Something IS required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition: faith in the gospel, falth in Jesus Christ.

God does not save people against their will. He is righteous and just. God does not "enable" some people to believe while leaving others to die in their sins.

God is far more loving than Calvinism portrays Him to be.

 

[rogerg]

Something IS required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition: faith in the gospel, falth in Jesus Christ.

God does not save people against their will. He is righteous and just. God does not "enable" some people to believe while leaving others to die in their sins.

God is far more loving than Calvinism portrays Him to be.

For God to save someone is neither unrighteous nor unjust - He paid the price to do exactly that.

Respectfully, VARob, one's faith is a byproduct of salvation, not cause. God saves those whom He has chosen irrespective of anything else. He is God and if it is His will, it will happen. Before being saved we all were dead in sin. A spiritually dead person
cannot choose. What is given by God is spiritual life and after receiving it, who would reject it?

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Eph 2:1-2.5 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

 

[rogerg]

God is far more loving than Calvinism portrays Him to be.

To continue a little, would it be "more loving" of God, for someone who was unable to come to faith for reasons outside
of their control to face God's judgment- the infirm, the mentally challenged, the very old, the very young, etc. What would happen
to those who are unable to come to faith?

 

[VARob]

For God to save someone is neither unrighteous nor unjust - He paid the price to do exactly that.

It is righteous of God to make salvation available to everyone.

Respectfully, VARob, one's faith is a byproduct of salvation, not cause.

That is not true. It is when a person chooses to have faith in the gospel that he becomes saved.

God saves those whom He has chosen irrespective of anything else.

God chooses people who choose Him.

He is God and if it is His will, it will happen.

It is God's will for all men to be saved (1 Tim 2:4). He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). He commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

Before being saved we all were dead in sin.

That is true.

A spiritually dead person cannot choose.

Yes, they can. Salvation is available to everyone.

What is given by God is spiritual life

And that spiritual life is given when a person chooses to believe the gospel (Eph 1:13).

and after receiving it, who would reject it?

There have been many saved Christians who have stopped actively pursuing Christianity. Demas, for example.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Yes, faith is a fruit of the spirit, but not the faith to get saved.

[Eph 2:1-2.5 KJV]
1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

We were quickened when we decided to believe the gospel (Eph 1:13).

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Yes. We were made alive together with Christ when we chose to believe the gospel.

 

[VARob]

To continue a little, would it be "more loving" of God, for someone who was unable to come to faith for reasons outside of their control to face God's judgment- the infirm, the mentally challenged, the very old, the very young, etc. What would happen to those who are unable to come to faith?

God will be fair. Nobody will be unjustly condemned.

 

[HeIsHere]

You guys have special definitions of words. You need them in order to support your beliefs.

Very true.

Therefore presenting scripture after scripture to them is futile.
It is not an easy feat to shake them loose from their belief system.
Consider, R. C. Sproul, a brilliant man, knew scripture in depth and yet a Calvinist.

 

[HeIsHere]

READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

They have, that is not the problem.

 

[Magenta]

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Acts 17:30

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

No my fault, I was in the process of replying to reneweddaybyday but forgot it was there. I edited and deleted it. Sorry
for the confusion.

Not an issue, it happens sometimes. Have a blessed evening.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

They have, that is not the problem.

I fear you are right...

 

[reneweddaybyday]

it's "of" - genitive - ownership.

From Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible:

but by the faith of Jesus Christ; not by that faith, which Christ, as man, had in God, who promised him help, succour, and assistance, and for which he, as man, trusted in him, and exercised faith upon him; but that faith of which he is the object, author, and finisher​

​

​

 

[Cameron143]

From Gill's Exposition of the Whole Bible:

but by the faith of Jesus Christ; not by that faith, which Christ, as man, had in God, who promised him help, succour, and assistance, and for which he, as man, trusted in him, and exercised faith upon him; but that faith of which he is the object, author, and finisher​

​

​

What do you make of Jesus being the author of faith?

 

[Magenta]

What do you make of Jesus being the author of faith?

Author and finisher .

 

[reneweddaybyday]

No, think about what you've just said. were it dependent upon anything but Christ, then He wouldn't/couldn't be the Saviour and
something would be required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition.

instead of believing that something (i.e. faith) "would be required from the recipient to bring salvation to fruition", why don't you just believe what Scripture tells us ... that a person is not to suppress the truth in unrighteousness when someone preaches the gospel of Christ to him or her?
.