Calvin did not invent the doctrines of grace

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Mar 23, 2016
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the Gospel [Christ Crucified], that was Pauls main focus among them 1 Cor 2:1-2

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
:rolleyes: ... again, brightfame52, the deeper spiritual matters were discussed among them that are perfect (mature, of full age):

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory

The words "are perfect" in vs 6 are translated from the Greek word teleios which means mature, of full age.

The mystery, even the hidden wisdom goes beyond the scope of the gospel. The gospel is considered the milk of the word and the believer is to grow thereby.

1 Peter 2:2 tells us As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Hebrews 5:13-14 tells us For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age ...

The words "full age" in Hebrews 5:14 are translated from the Greek word teleios (translated as "perfect" in 1 Cor 2:6).

Paul knew what he was doing when he taught at the church in Corinth. When there were young believers present, Paul taught Christ and Him crucified (the gospel).

When there were no young believers present, whether babes in Christ (new born again ones) or carnal believers (1 Cor 3:1), Paul taught deeper spiritual matters among them that are perfect (mature, of full age - 1 Cor 2:6).

You continue to conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom which reveals you do not understand the mystery, the hidden wisdom (and, quite possibly, the gospel).

.
 

John146

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You are handling scripture there not accuratelt, but according to your whims and imagination. For David knew all depended upon Gods will on whether or not the child would live and not die, he expressed that , Let us read 2 Sam 12:20-21

21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

David knew as all christians know, this 1 Jn 5:14-15

14 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.
Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live? God had pronounced death upon the child, yet David prayed for God's grace that the child would live.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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No, butDavid knew there was a possibility that God would show him grace and allow the child to live.
I don't disagree. But the very nature of prayer speaks to our helplessness and God's ability to bring to pass things as He decides.
 

Snacks

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Feb 10, 2022
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Yes, but Im not sure He is the same Jesus Christ you may be referring to. The Jesus Christ I was given Faith in came to save only a particular people from their sins and He has done that, Its finished Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Now do you have Faith in this Jesus Christ ? Since you want to go there
“Since you want to go there.” 🤣
How childish.

I have faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Messiah, Lord of all and Savior of everyone who has faith in Him. Unlike you, I don’t suffocate His saving grace but rather I recognize the fullness of it.
 

Cameron143

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Hezekiah prayed against what God had declared was going to take place and God decided to allow him to live. Everything that should happen is not necessarily God’s will.
God's will coincided with Hezekiah's plea.

At the time, Hezekiah had no heir.

David was anointed king long before he took office. Could Saul have ever had captured and killed David once God had appointed it so?
 

John146

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Jan 13, 2016
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I don't disagree. But the very nature of prayer speaks to our helplessness and God's ability to bring to pass things as He decides.
Yes, but God can decide to cause things to happen that would have never happened through the natural course of history, but because we sought him and prayed, God stepped in and made a way.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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God's will coincided with Hezekiah's plea.

At the time, Hezekiah had no heir.

David was anointed king long before he took office. Could Saul have ever had captured and killed David once God had appointed it so?
Did God lie about Hezekiah dying? God told him to set his house in order because he is going to die. Why? Because Hezekiah was going to die. But when Hezekiah prayed, God allowed him to live.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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:rolleyes: ... again, brightfame52, the deeper spiritual matters were discussed among them that are perfect (mature, of full age):

1 Corinthians 2:

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory

The words "are perfect" in vs 6 are translated from the Greek word teleios which means mature, of full age.

The mystery, even the hidden wisdom goes beyond the scope of the gospel. The gospel is considered the milk of the word and the believer is to grow thereby.

1 Peter 2:2 tells us As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby

Hebrews 5:13-14 tells us For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age ...

The words "full age" in Hebrews 5:14 are translated from the Greek word teleios (translated as "perfect" in 1 Cor 2:6).

Paul knew what he was doing when he taught at the church in Corinth. When there were young believers present, Paul taught Christ and Him crucified (the gospel).

When there were no young believers present, whether babes in Christ (new born again ones) or carnal believers (1 Cor 3:1), Paul taught deeper spiritual matters among them that are perfect (mature, of full age - 1 Cor 2:6).

You continue to conflate the gospel with the mystery, the hidden wisdom which reveals you do not understand the mystery, the hidden wisdom (and, quite possibly, the gospel).
.
Again, Pauls main objective and message was the Cross 1:17-2:14


17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

2 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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“Since you want to go there.” 🤣
How childish.

I have faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the Messiah, Lord of all and Savior of everyone who has faith in Him. Unlike you, I don’t suffocate His saving grace but rather I recognize the fullness of it.
Did the christ you believe in die to save everyone, even them who dont ever have faith in him ?
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live? God had pronounced death upon the child, yet David prayed for God's grace that the child would live.
David nevertheless resigned the matter unto the will of the Lord, he didnt ask God to change His Mind and its treachery to scripture to say he did.

Jesus in a similar fashion, knew it was Gods will for Him to die, but He prayed Matt 26:39


And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Was Jesus hoping the Father would change His Mind ?
 

Cameron143

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Yes, but God can decide to cause things to happen that would have never happened through the natural course of history, but because we sought him and prayed, God stepped in and made a way.
History is under divine control. It is following a divine plan and a divine timetable.
 

brightfame52

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Nov 21, 2020
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Yes, but God can decide to cause things to happen that would have never happened through the natural course of history, but because we sought him and prayed, God stepped in and made a way.
More talk from your imagination.
 

John146

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David nevertheless resigned the matter unto the will of the Lord, he didnt ask God to change His Mind and its treachery to scripture to say he did.

Jesus in a similar fashion, knew it was Gods will for Him to die, but He prayed Matt 26:39


And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Was Jesus hoping the Father would change His Mind ?
These are totally different scenarios. It was God's will that Jesus die for sins. It was not God's will that David's son die. David's son died because of David's disobedience. That's not God's will. God stated that the boy would die. David prayed for God's grace that the boy would live.
 

Cameron143

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Did God lie about Hezekiah dying? God told him to set his house in order because he is going to die. Why? Because Hezekiah was going to die. But when Hezekiah prayed, God allowed him to live.
Do you not see God initiating all these encounters you speak to? God sent Jonah. God sent Isaiah. God came to Noah. God came to Abraham. God sent Jesus.
Do you think these things are random or purposeful?
 

John146

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History is under divine control. It is following a divine plan and a divine timetable.
History as foretold in the bible. Who is the god of this world right now? Who is the ruler of the darkness right now? History will turn out the way God has stated in his word. Not all events are stated in his word. There are choices man can make. Sin is never divine. Things happen that are not God's will.
 

brightfame52

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These are totally different scenarios. It was God's will that Jesus die for sins. It was not God's will that David's son die. David's son died because of David's disobedience. That's not God's will. God stated that the boy would die. David prayed for God's grace that the boy would live.
It was Gods will that the child die.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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Did God lie about Hezekiah dying? God told him to set his house in order because he is going to die. Why? Because Hezekiah was going to die. But when Hezekiah prayed, God allowed him to live.
Would you please answer my question concerning David?
 

John146

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Do you not see God initiating all these encounters you speak to? God sent Jonah. God sent Isaiah. God came to Noah. God came to Abraham. God sent Jesus.
Do you think these things are random or purposeful?
Yes! God sent Jonah to tell Nineveh they were going to be destroyed in forty days. God did not lie. Nineveh was going to be destroyed in forty days. However, they were not destroyed in forty days because they repented. Because they repented, God repented.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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History as foretold in the bible. Who is the god of this world right now? Who is the ruler of the darkness right now? History will turn out the way God has stated in his word. Not all events are stated in his word. There are choices man can make. Sin is never divine. Things happen that are not God's will.
God controls this world. Otherwise, you are saying Satan is stronger than God. I know you don't believe that.