Works of the Law

TMS · Apr 22, 2023

They had fruits that showed what was in their heart.

Jesus said He never knew them.
By their fruits you shall know them.

Our fruits are a reflection of the heart and mind. Like works are a result of the faith.

If you really make Jesus your Lord and give yourself to His service, then your fruits will show it.

Mat 7:23-24
23 And then will I profess unto them,
(Those that believe in Jesus), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Jas 2:19-20
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

TMS said:

They had fruits that showed what was in their heart.

Jesus said He never knew them.
By their fruits you shall know them.

Our fruits are a reflection of the heart and mind. Like works are a result of the faith.

If you really make Jesus your Lord and give yourself to His service, then your fruits will show it.

Mat 7:23-24
23 And then will I profess unto them,
(Those that believe in Jesus), I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Jas 2:19-20
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

Works and service we do are not fruit. Fruit is the work the Spirit does in us. Galatians 5:22-23.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Don't stop there...tell them about the baloney you say Jesus taught in (Matthew 19:16-17).
To a man who asked Jesus a very direct question...and to whom was given a very direct answer.
The actual words.....
(Matthew 19:16-17) And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

But as I said, people like you look for a verse that can be molded into saying what you want it to say, where I showed you a verse that says exactly what I say.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Ted01 said:

I totally disagree with this opinion that this Scripture is saying that Repentance is 'the first work"... I think that you're reading into it something that isn't there. (Many commentaries also disagree with your opinion, as well as bible translations that add punctuation).

Rev. 2:5(ESV) Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent, and do the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

Notice how in the ESV they have a comma after "repent" then another comma as well as the word "and". This shows that there is a separation of thought. Jesus is saying first repent, and then... "do the works you did at first." Not that Repentance is the "first works" that you're claiming.

Now I know that you don't want an argument... which seems by the way, any opposition with your opinion? (Not with you, but with your opinion). And I'll respect that after this. However, since you seem to have placed yourself as our "teacher", I would hope that you understand that some of us prefer teachers that actually know what they're talking about and can articulate their information well. You might call it "hair-splitting" but I appreciate attention to detail.

I don't think that you are qualified to teach.

Commentaries? Really...written by who?? I guess that would depend on what man you follow wouldn't it?
(Psalms 118:8) It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Believe it...or not.

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

Why did he go away sad then if he really had kept the commandments?
While it is true he could have inherited eternal life by keeping all the commandments to the uttermost and continuously, he went away sad because he loved money more than he loved God. This was the whole point of the exercise. The law had brought him to Christ.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

You believe Jesus lied to this man... for an exercise?

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

Jesus didn't lie. He asked questions to open the man up in his own false assumptions. If he really had kept all the commandments perfectly, he could have inherited eternal life. Obviously during the course of the conversation, the young man came to the realization that he didn't love God before all things.
Rather than go away sad, he should have admitted that he hadn't really kept the law and ask if there was another way. Then Jesus would have revealed Himself the way of eternal life and the man would have found life in Christ.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Jesus didn't lie. He asked questions to open the man up in his own false assumptions. If he really had kept all the commandments perfectly, he could have inherited eternal life. Obviously during the course of the conversation, the young man came to the realization that he didn't love God before all things.
Rather than go away sad, he should have admitted that he hadn't really kept the law and ask if there was another way. Then Jesus would have revealed Himself the way of eternal life and the man would have found life in Christ.

.You do not believe what Jesus told the man was the Truth.
Right or wrong?

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

Jesus can only tell the truth. I'm suggesting you don't understand what He was teaching.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

And I'm suggesting you are unknowingly calling Jesus a Liar...just for the sake of being right.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 22, 2023

TMS said:

Fair enough. But it does not define the finished work of Christ and its impact on sin and sinners.

Nehemiah6 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

I already told you THAT WAS A TEST. The man was breaking the first four commandments and continued to do so. And in any event he could never receive eternal life by keeping all the commandments imperfectly (which would never happen). Goliath you are setting yourself up for some very serious consequences.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

And why should I worry about consequences...and what are they?

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

What commandment did the rich young ruler break by not selling all his goods?

Jesus didn't lie. The rich young ruler did. He hadn't kept all the commandments. Jesus showed him exactly what he lacked.

Ted01 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

Do you know the traits of narcissism?

How is it that you would try to dishonor people while asking who they are in the same breath? How do you think that you know that the writers of commentaries didn't put their confidences in the Lord before they wrote the commentaries?

You're so proud of yourself and think that you are above most in understanding and yet also talk down to others... lol.
There's a lot in Scripture that the Lord has to say about that kind of mindset, too.

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I never said Jesus lied, you and Nehemiah do in your teaching. Now that you have been informed....If I were you, I wouldn't go down that road anymore. Your teachings also make Paul a liar, but Paul is not the Son of God.

Cameron143 · Apr 22, 2023

Goliath said:

Your lack of understanding is why you think this line of reasoning is untenable. You think Jesus is telling him he can garner eternal life by keeping the commandments. What Jesus is doing is showing him that's a bad route to choose because he has, in fact, not actually kept all the commandments.
After saying he had kept all the commandments, the rich young ruler asks what does he lack. Jesus tells him to sell all he has. So I ask you again, what commandment did the rich young ruler break by not selling all his goods?
Can you please answer this question?

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Ted01 said:

I gave you my commentary and you don't believe me, and yet you believe in someones commentary you have probably never even talked to.

The Pope has bible commentary, Why don't you believe what he writes? Do you not also dishonor him?
I tell you why you follow one man's commentary and not another....well actually Paul will tell you.
(2 Timothy 4:3) For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

Pilgrimshope · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

there is no commandment in Moses law to give your possessions to the poor the rich young ruler was like the Pharisees he kept the rules but had no compassion on others

He lacked this part as so many do

“Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?

My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭3:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we can keep ten rules and not give even a little care to anyone else I can keep the Ten Commandments and never have a compassionate thought of another I could do not because I’m afraid of o step out of line God will destroy me like under Moses law like this guy

“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s not the kind of obedience God desires we can’t be like inmates restrained from doing evil we need a heart transplant so we begin to care about o her people truly enough to say “ “hey that person over there has no food I have money in my pocket and I have plenty of food let me help that destitute person with my extra because I care about them “

this should be part of what our heart does when we see people we can help

at he rich young man was like the group who honored God with words but thier hearts were far away from his God ultimately needs us to see what Jesus did for us who were destitute spiritually so we will respond and live o her people the same way that’s the bottom line of we keep rules isn’t the same as loving other people we need tomlewrn to love notice this guys response and how Jesus didn’t have to even mention it it came from zacceus heart

“And Zacchæus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.

And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham. For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭19:8-10‬

Goliath · Apr 22, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Your lack of understanding is why you think this line of reasoning is untenable. You think Jesus is telling him he can garner eternal life by keeping the commandments. What Jesus is doing is showing him that's a bad route to choose because he has, in fact, not actually kept all the commandments.
After saying he had kept all the commandments, the rich young ruler asks what does he lack. Jesus tells him to sell all he has. So I ask you again, what commandment did the rich young ruler break by not selling all his goods?
Can you please answer this question?

I will, but first you need to promise me, you will stop teaching this passage as you are now.
Promise?

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