Doctrine of Unconditional Election
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1 Timothy 2
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
-
1
- Show all
So then a person does have to do something for it - having to satisfy a condition is to do something, isn't it ?
If a man has to satisfy a condition to become saved, and if they don't, they're not saved. and if they do, then they're saved,
it sounds to me like in that case, a man has to become their own saviour making Christ not the Saviour.
A person comes to faith because faith is given to him through being born-again as a fruit of the Spirit.
It is not something they can manufacture but neither does their faith does save them - it comes as a result of salvation.
Only Christ's faith is counted as righteousness for those to whom it is imputed - a faith a person may produce has no righteousness
and means nothing to God. Only Christ's faith does. Christ's faith is what brought salvation.
The "hearing" you mentioned is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. Spiritual ears to hear are another thing given by the Holy Spirit
when someone becomes saved. So, if God doesn't do everything required for salvation on our behalf, then neither can there be mercy or grace, meaning that Jesus isn't the Saviour - and we're all on our own to achieve it, which we can never do, and therefore, no one will become saved.
Christ can't be a part-way Saviour. He is either 100% Saviour fully and completely in all ways or He isn't Saviour at all, period -
with no if, ands, or buts about it
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
If a man has to satisfy a condition to become saved, and if they don't, they're not saved. and if they do, then they're saved,
it sounds to me like in that case, a man has to become their own saviour making Christ not the Saviour.
A person comes to faith because faith is given to him through being born-again as a fruit of the Spirit.
It is not something they can manufacture but neither does their faith does save them - it comes as a result of salvation.
Only Christ's faith is counted as righteousness for those to whom it is imputed - a faith a person may produce has no righteousness
and means nothing to God. Only Christ's faith does. Christ's faith is what brought salvation.
The "hearing" you mentioned is spiritual hearing, not human hearing. Spiritual ears to hear are another thing given by the Holy Spirit
when someone becomes saved. So, if God doesn't do everything required for salvation on our behalf, then neither can there be mercy or grace, meaning that Jesus isn't the Saviour - and we're all on our own to achieve it, which we can never do, and therefore, no one will become saved.
Christ can't be a part-way Saviour. He is either 100% Saviour fully and completely in all ways or He isn't Saviour at all, period -
with no if, ands, or buts about it
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
The "all men" are those whom the Father gave to the Son to be saved. It includes people irrespective of color, creed, nationality,
rank in society, or any other category you can think of. There is but one commonality between all- that God had chosen them individually for salvation from before the foundation of the world - nothing else.
[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
rank in society, or any other category you can think of. There is but one commonality between all- that God had chosen them individually for salvation from before the foundation of the world - nothing else.
[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
It's not an "if" in the passage. All men include kings and all that are in authority, and yet, kings and all that are in authority are not saved. Calvinists have to add to the word of God to fit their theology. Allow the bible to dictate your theology and leave the bible as stands.
-
1
- Show all
Seems like he’s talking about double predestination, people who hate Calvin often do this out of ignorance or spite.
If he wasn’t banned I would remind him that Arminians (synergists) must answer the question as well: Why did God create people knowing they would burn?
It’s a tough question the monergists and the synergist both must address, the answer being in Romans.
Romans 9:14-24
[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! [15] For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” [16] So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [17] For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” [18] So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
[19] You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” [20] But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” [21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? [22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, [23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—[24] even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
If he wasn’t banned I would remind him that Arminians (synergists) must answer the question as well: Why did God create people knowing they would burn?
It’s a tough question the monergists and the synergist both must address, the answer being in Romans.
Romans 9:14-24
[14] What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God’s part? By no means! [15] For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” [16] So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [17] For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” [18] So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
[19] You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” [20] But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” [21] Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? [22] What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, [23] in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—[24] even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?
-
1
- Show all