Baptizing

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

I read that people who are saved may not have been baptized by water, and I also read and I know that people have been baptized in water before they were saved, and I also read that people also get baptized after they are saved just to show their brothers and sisters in Christ that they believe, and believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.

Christening off a newborn baby child, people say the earlier you can get this done the better. And people say that christening is an act by where you offer your child up to the lord so that the lord watches over your child. Is the child saved at this point but only in father hood way. Kinda of like the old t where the father watched over the 12 tribes of Jerusalem. But they hadn't received the spirit of Jesus. But if your child was born into a save family, would water baptism still be needed.

I know that people believe that confessing your sins with a sincere heart is a must befor one is saved, and water baptism is not needed for this, and believe baptism then follows from the holy spirit.

Then I read We are all born with a sin nature, so it is vital to confess your sins with a sincere heart befor being saved.

I also read that Certain types of bad spirits could not be cast out of people by mentioning the lord Jesus name unless the person fasted first,
And continuous prayer was offered up. For a person to be able to have the state of mind to fast, I would have thought they must also be able to have a state of mind to speak and confess with a sincere heart there sins. But then am i to believe in this case, it may not be enough because that person must fast first. I read Such person may not even know there possessed I'm told.

Are there any Christians here who feal they did not receive the holy spirit the first time they asked.

Maybe this could be for 1 or two reasons they did not confess there sins with a sincere heart,
or they hadn't fasted first.

Your thoughts please.

And possibly I would like to hear from any available pastor who may visit this site or be a member here, for this as I'm so scared for my mum and dad,

we have an person in our house who possibly he has a bad spirit in him.

Karlon · Mar 21, 2023

in the Christian realm, parents baptize their children just in case God calls a child home. all children who pass on are saved just as all people born with the inability to learn or be responsible for themselves are saved. when a Christian child grows mature, he or she should get baptized a 2nd time because now he or she understands what it means. Baptism, by all means, should be by immersion, (Matthew 3:16,17- "And Jesus, when He was baptized, CAME UP, STRAIT OUT OF THE WATER....). But if a physical condition is present, a pastor may sprinkle water on you. No, a person doesn't have to be baptized to be saved but it certainly is recommended. just think of an emergency situation where time is hardly available, someone says the sinners prayer & gets saved.

soberxp · Mar 21, 2023

It seems to me that baptism through water is just a sacred ritual,It's your attitude, your acceptance of baptism and your obedience to God's Word.
The truly baptism comes from the Holy Spirit. When you understand God's Word well, you are truly baptized by the Holy Spirit.This is the time when you truly change, in your thoughts, in your behavior, in your spiritual attitude.

Karlon · Mar 21, 2023

soberxp said:

It seems to me that baptism through water is just a sacred ritual,It's your attitude, your acceptance of baptism and your obedience to God's Word.
The truly baptism comes from the Holy Spirit. When you understand God's Word well, you are truly baptized by the Holy Spirit.This is the time when you truly change, in your thoughts, in your behavior, in your spiritual attitude.[/QUO Baptism represents hope in a future resurrection, redemption & symbolizes new life. We are united with Jesus in baptism & His people (adopted in His family), & identified with Him in death, burial & resurrection.

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

Thankyou for sharing what about fasting or anointing, why must a Christian fast,

Fasting confuses me so does anointing, anointing seems a ritual act, but could you say the same for fasting. I read baptism is performed by some on the basis of the act of baptism Zeal's your faith, but I'm still confused by that.

Just as I am fasting, I read fasting can give you better communion with the spirit, because the belief is we battle the flesh and the flesh can cause disturbance or block communion or something like this.

I read that anointing of priest is still performed to this day, and people use anointing for other purposes.

Dino246 · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

Thankyou for sharing what about fasting or anointing, why must a Christian fast,

Fasting confuses me so does anointing, anointing seems a ritual act, but could you say the same for fasting. I read baptism is performed by some on the basis of the act of baptism Zeal's your faith, but I'm still confused by that.

Just as I am fasting, I read fasting can give you better communion with the spirit, because the belief is we battle the flesh and the flesh can cause disturbance or block communion or something like this.

I read that anointing of priest is still performed to this day, and people use anointing for other purposes.

With regard to fasting specifically, I would encourage you to read the relevant chapter in Richard Foster’s Celebration of Discipline.

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

Dino246 said:

Thankyou for this.
I have just read the fasting chapter from this book.
From what I can gather Christian fasting is for Developing spiritual strength and for beating temptation and also for disciplining the flesh so that your own spirit, or the holy spirit can be master of our Body.

I'm still confused, is it the holy spirit that's needs help to master our bodies or our own spirit or both,

I'm not asking you directly as i don't know if you'll understand, but how can fasting for an unsaved person help with removal of a bad spirit. Any ideas ?.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

If a person fasts and is not Christian, they're just basically on a diet. Christians can fast and pray for someone to be healed though.

That is a good book that Dino246 recommended. Fasting is to help you focus on prayer and to submit to the Holy Spirit (because you're depending on Him for strength during hunger). The Holy Spirit doesn't need to fast. Good questions though!

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

From what I have read through loads of searching there is another good reason, why an unsaved person could fast, it's says the flesh can be a magnet for a spiritual realm of the wicked. The soul or spirit of an unsaved person can become so weak, that it can be impossible for such a person to confess with a sincere heart befor recieving the holy spirit because his mind heart and soul has been taken over.

So the belief is if an unsaved person fasted his flesh becomes week his soul stronger, then recieving the holy spirit can be received because the person can confess with sincerity and such person is able to receive the lords name of Jesus.

There's a scripture saying some spirits will not leave a person unless he fasts, but that's all there is.
There is no reason. Which I know my highly want to know it all friend will want to know why how and what reason.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

“believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.”

you find the reasons in Scripture explaining it like these couple examples

We know a summary of what it’s for and how it’s done and the promise that is given

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

We know it’s done for remission of sins in his name but later the Bible explains it in the doctrine “ how are sins remitted through baptism ?”

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( sin requires death in baptism we died already formoir sins with him ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7, 10-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death”

“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:11-13‬ ‭

The Bible explains the subjects in it and then goes in depth towards doctrine and what it means for us who get baptized

“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭

the church was all baptized into Christs death and resurrection it’s why Paul was writing things like this

“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-3‬ ‭

Baptism is something we do because we believe Jesus died for our sins and rose for our justification , it is baptism into that death for our sins and resurrection for our justification.

Because we’ve all sinned before death is required

“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We need to accept Jesus death burial and resurrection that’s why when we get baptized we are buried beneath the water and raised up again from the water having Jesus name confessed over us

“baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,”

We learn about things by studying those subjects in scripture and discussing them

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

I'm not familiar with what happens to unsaved people when they fast. I haven't found any verses in the Bible for that. Can you find that for me?

I know about this one:

Luke 11:24 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ 25 When it arrives, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. 26 Then it goes and takes seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.”

This is the same story but in the book of Matthew

Matthew 12:43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”

There's nothing there that says an unsaved person has to fast to make spirits leave them.

Also they don't need to fast to get saved.

Internet is a great place but you can't believe everything on it.

Can't Lie On The Internet

❧

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

2ndTimeIsTheCharm said:

New Living Translation mark9:28
Afterward, when Jesus was alone in the house with his disciples, they asked him, “Why couldn’t we cast out that evil spirit?
KJV mark 9.29 Jesus answered
29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.

another question I have does all the scripture that apply to fasting in the bible apply for christians, because where they not practicing fasting when they where unsaved Befor Jesus went to the cross and befor they had received the holy spirit, any ideas ?

Nehemiah6 · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

There are several very good reasons for new converts (believers) to be baptized. Go right through the book of Acts and see that Christian baptism (which should be by immersion) was never neglected by the apostles.

1. It is a commandment of Christ. This is more important than anything else.
2. It identifies the believer with Christ and with Christians.
3. It is a public testimony to that person's faith in Christ for his or her salvation.
4. It is a physical act that clearly makes that person understand that he or she is dead (finished with) the old sinful life, and is now on the path to a new life with Christ.
5. It is the first step of obedience to Christ.
6. It is the first step in the sanctification of the believer.
7. It reinforces to that person that he or she is truly saved by grace and therefore a child of God.
8. It is an incentive to live the Christian life separated from sin and worldliness.

The apostle Paul explains the SPIRITUAL MEANING of water baptism in Romans chapter 6.

ROMANS 6: THE CHRISTIAN IS DONE WITH SIN AND MUST LIVE RIGHTEOUSLY

A. GRACE IS NOT A LICENSE TO SIN
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

B. THE CHRISTIAN IS DEAD TO (DONE WITH) SIN THROUGH CHRIST
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

C. WATER BAPTISM IDENTIFIES CHRISTIANS WITH THE DEATH OF CHRIST
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

D. THEREFORE BAPTISM IS BY IMMERSION TO SHOW THAT WE DIED TO THE OLD LIFE
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:...

E. THEREFORE WE MUST WALK (LIVE) IN NEWNESS OF LIFE (RIGHTEOUSLY)
...that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

F. A NEW LIFE IN CHRIST IS A "RESURRECTED" LIFE (OLD THINGS HAVE PASSED AWAY)
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

G. THE POWER OF OUR "FLESH" (SIN NATURE) WAS DESTROYED AT THE CROSS OF CHRIST
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

H. THE RESURRECTION OF THE BELIEVER IS GUARANTEED BY GOD
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

I. CHRISTIANS MUST DIE TO (ABANDON) SIN AND LIVE UNTO GOD (RIGHTEOUSLY)
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

J. THE SIN NATURE CANNOT, AND SHOULD, NOT DOMINATE YOU
14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

VARob · Mar 21, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

My parents had me sprinkled as an infant in the Presbyterian church. I have not been water baptized since (I'm 70).

It there any hope for me?

Are you sure Paul is talking about water baptism? There is "one baptism" (Eph 4:5), and it is "by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body" (1 Cor 12:13).

I do have to say that your posts are exquisitely formatted.

GRACE_ambassador · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

Precious friend, since water baptism is not for Today, under Grace, there are many
denominational traditions of 'why' they practice an OT command, thus causing a
lot of Confusion. And God is "not the author of Confusion" (1Co 14:33), Correct?

This summary may be helpful for What God Is Doing Today, Under Grace:

Three baptisms, Rightly Divided, Within God's Contexts:

(1) Prophecy/Covenants/Law for ISRAEL:

water baptism was man's operation, Commanded by God
to John the baptizer, and then by Christ to:

►►► The Twelve apostles who Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄

The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =

God's Reason For:
A) water, For remission of sins/induction into Israeli "priesthood!":
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)
+
This Is The Baptism That "Christ Performed" after ascending Into Heaven:

B) Baptism WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for
power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)
Prophecy/Covenants/Law

Q: Are these TWO "still Required" By God, for us, Today, Under Grace?
Bible Answer:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

(2) Mystery/GRACE! =

our "apostle to the Gentiles" for The Body Of CHRIST:

►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; ►►► 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB ◄◄◄)
----------------
FULL study of ONE Baptism for today's Dispensation of Grace...

Precious friend:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).

Grace, Peace, And JOY + RICH Blessings

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

I've always took that verse, Mark 9:29, to be Christians praying and fasting for someone else. Not for the person who needs deliverance or healing.

But you said your friend is unsaved and there's nothing in the Bible that says that the unsaved have to fast. As a matter of fact, if they don't have the Holy Spirit to keep them strong when they're hungry during the fast, they might actually get weaker and give in to unclean spirits. I just think that info on the internet is dangerous to unsuspecting people.

-=<>=-

The Lord's disciples actually didn't do any fasting until after He was crucified, died and then ascended.

Matthew 9:14 Then John’s disciples came and asked him, “How is it that we and the Pharisees fast often, but your disciples do not fast?”

15 Jesus answered, “How can the guests of the bridegroom mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the bridegroom will be taken from them; then they will fast.

John the Baptist's disciples and the Pharisees fasted per usual old testament custom.

Please slow down and take your time with research. It seems like you get some things twisted or mixed up.

❧

DJT_47 · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

I read that people who are saved may not have been baptized by water, and I also read and I know that people have been baptized in water before they were saved, and I also read that people also get baptized after they are saved just to show their brothers and sisters in Christ that they believe, and believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.

Christening off a newborn baby child, people say the earlier you can get this done the better. And people say that christening is an act by where you offer your child up to the lord so that the lord watches over your child. Is the child saved at this point but only in father hood way. Kinda of like the old t where the father watched over the 12 tribes of Jerusalem. But they hadn't received the spirit of Jesus. But if your child was born into a save family, would water baptism still be needed.

I know that people believe that confessing your sins with a sincere heart is a must befor one is saved, and water baptism is not needed for this, and believe baptism then follows from the holy spirit.

Then I read We are all born with a sin nature, so it is vital to confess your sins with a sincere heart befor being saved.

I also read that Certain types of bad spirits could not be cast out of people by mentioning the lord Jesus name unless the person fasted first,
And continuous prayer was offered up. For a person to be able to have the state of mind to fast, I would have thought they must also be able to have a state of mind to speak and confess with a sincere heart there sins. But then am i to believe in this case, it may not be enough because that person must fast first. I read Such person may not even know there possessed I'm told.

Are there any Christians here who feal they did not receive the holy spirit the first time they asked.

Maybe this could be for 1 or two reasons they did not confess there sins with a sincere heart,
or they hadn't fasted first.

Your thoughts please.

And possibly I would like to hear from any available pastor who may visit this site or be a member here, for this as I'm so scared for my mum and dad,

we have an person in our house who possibly he has a bad spirit in him.

You can read a lot of things, the vast majority of which is false. The scriptural fact is, you're not saved, meaning your sins have not been forgiven, until you were immersed in water, baptized. Acts 2:38 makes that 100% clear.

Also the scriptural fact is you receive the gift of the Holy Ghost/Spirit, not one of the miraculous gifts of the Spirit as found in 1 Cor 12:8-10, but the gift of the Holy Spirit itself, upon being baptized, also per Acts 2:38.

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

VARob · Mar 21, 2023

DJT_47 said:

So Romans 10:9 is not true?
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

What about Eph 1:13?
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

pottersclay · Mar 21, 2023

Happy_hobnob said:

I read that people who are saved may not have been baptized by water, and I also read and I know that people have been baptized in water before they were saved, and I also read that people also get baptized after they are saved just to show their brothers and sisters in Christ that they believe, and believe a person should be baptized, I also read people regularly get baptized but why i don't understand the reason.

Christening off a newborn baby child, people say the earlier you can get this done the better. And people say that christening is an act by where you offer your child up to the lord so that the lord watches over your child. Is the child saved at this point but only in father hood way. Kinda of like the old t where the father watched over the 12 tribes of Jerusalem. But they hadn't received the spirit of Jesus. But if your child was born into a save family, would water baptism still be needed.

I know that people believe that confessing your sins with a sincere heart is a must befor one is saved, and water baptism is not needed for this, and believe baptism then follows from the holy spirit.

Then I read We are all born with a sin nature, so it is vital to confess your sins with a sincere heart befor being saved.

I also read that Certain types of bad spirits could not be cast out of people by mentioning the lord Jesus name unless the person fasted first,
And continuous prayer was offered up. For a person to be able to have the state of mind to fast, I would have thought they must also be able to have a state of mind to speak and confess with a sincere heart there sins. But then am i to believe in this case, it may not be enough because that person must fast first. I read Such person may not even know there possessed I'm told.

Are there any Christians here who feal they did not receive the holy spirit the first time they asked.

Maybe this could be for 1 or two reasons they did not confess there sins with a sincere heart,
or they hadn't fasted first.

Your thoughts please.

And possibly I would like to hear from any available pastor who may visit this site or be a member here, for this as I'm so scared for my mum and dad,

we have an person in our house who possibly he has a bad spirit in him.

What is it with you and this bad spirit.?

Happy_hobnob · Mar 21, 2023

pottersclay said:

my mum and dad are old, at the moment they don't know. About my friend. But I'm kinda becoming more freaked out, all tho most of the time hes in a separate apartment to our farm house, he does have to come into our house from time to time, plus he's going vacant and operating machinery that's highly dangerous.

Then there's the cattle 12 cows, 2 bulls 57 sheep. 4 horse, if he leaves a gate open they could cause injury to my mum and dad, then there's a chance my mum and dad could receive demonic attack from a bad spirit that is possessing him. Which I am now convinced it is a bad spirit. So I may have to evict him, but then I lose my best mate.

Or the other alternative is to try and get him saved.

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