Salvation is for the Whole World

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rogerg

Well-known member
#681
Jul 13, 2021
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#681
Magenta said:
Whatever that means .:unsure::oops::unsure:
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It means that if we have to do it to have it, then it is a work and there is no way around that.
If we believe that something is required for salvation, and should we not do it and not be
saved, then that requirement was a law, because otherwise, it wouldn't have been required.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#682
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
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#682
rogerg said:
It means that if we have to do it to have it, then it is a work and there is no way around that.
If we believe that something is required for salvation, and should we not do it and not be
saved, then that requirement was a law, because otherwise, it wouldn't have been required.
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Faith is required for salvation. You do have to stop fighting God in order to agree with Him...

Agreeing with God is the essence of repentance. We agree with Him about our state before Him.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#683
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
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#683
Magenta said:
Yes... He works on and in us so we are then capable of making the right choice to accept and believe.

Making that choice to surrender, accept and believe is not a work.
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Nope. The verse simply does not say that. You've added to it and done so in a most obvious and egregious way.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#685
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
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#685
rogerg said:
Nope. The verse simply does not say that. You've added to it and done so in a most obvious and egregious way.
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Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you
may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#686
Jan 17, 2023
4,835
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#686
rogerg said:
It means that if we have to do it to have it, then it is a work and there is no way around that.
If we believe that something is required for salvation, and should we not do it and not be
saved, then that requirement was a law, because otherwise, it wouldn't have been required.
Click to expand...

Ok, where are we getting into left field here. Faith comes by hearing the Word. That is what the Bible says.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#688
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
648
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#688
Magenta said:

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you
may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.
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That verse supports what I've been saying - that it is all God's work.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#690
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
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#690
rogerg said:
That verse supports what I've been saying - that it is all God's work.
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That's not what you have been saying. You claim that if we accept God's grace it is a work done by us and nullifies grace.

You did nothing at all in coming to believe, it was all just forced on you.

Whether you wanted it or not.

You did not choose.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#691
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
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#691
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Ok, where are we getting into left field here. Faith comes by hearing the Word. That is what the Bible says.
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.
And that hearing is spiritual hearing with the heart and not human hearing with the ears. See 1 Co 2:14
To be able to hear spiritually, one must become born-again.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#692
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
648
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#692
Magenta said:
That's not what you have been saying. You claim that if we accept God's grace it is a work done by us and nullifies grace.

You did nothing at all in coming to believe, it was all just forced on you.

Whether you wanted it or not.

You did not choose.
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No, that is NOT what I've been saying. I said that if WE have to DO something TO accept it ,then it becomes a work.
Otherwise, it is a gift.
 
Magenta

Magenta

Senior Member
#693
Jul 3, 2015
61,138
30,286
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#693
rogerg said:
No, that is NOT what I've been saying. I said that if WE have to DO something TO accept it ,then it becomes a work.
Otherwise, it is a gift.
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A gift has to be accepted or by default it is rejected.

You claim if we accept it nullifies the fact of it being by God's grace, and a gift.

You make accepting and choosing into dirty words .:censored:

Accepting God's grace is not a work.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#694
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
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#694
ThereRoseaLamb said:
But the Bible says faith is not a work. So I don't get where we are getting stuck here.
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To have faith is a work. And for it to be true faith, it is only as a gift from God, not from ourselves.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
 
T

ThereRoseaLamb

Well-known member
#695
Jan 17, 2023
4,835
2,087
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#695
rogerg said:
.
And that hearing is spiritual hearing with the heart and not human hearing with the ears. See 1 Co 2:14
To be able to hear spiritually, one must become born-again.
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Here's what the Word says ;

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who [b]preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Not spiritual ears, natural ears.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#696
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
648
113
#696
Magenta said:
A gift has to be accepted or by default it is rejected.

You claim if we accept it nullifies the fact of it being by God's grace, and a gift.

You make accepting and choosing into dirty words .:censored:

Accepting God's grace is not a work.
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Maybe if you judge it in human terms it is, but it does not apply to salvation. The receiving of it is solely by God
and that IS THE GIFT
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#698
Jul 13, 2021
3,887
648
113
#698
ThereRoseaLamb said:
Here's what the Word says ;

14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:

“How beautiful are the feet of those who [b]preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Not spiritual ears, natural ears.
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One does not have spiritual ears of themselves. They must first be saved/born again to have that - it is a fruit of the Spirit.

[Luk 8:10 KJV] 10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
 
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