Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 4, 2023

The reason they were there was to represent the water and the blood.
Elijah, the water, and Moses, the blood.They were standing along with Jesus as The Two Witnesses.Which are the covenants.
So on Mount Tabor you have the Spirit(Jesus) water(Elijah) and blood. (Moses)

The first shall be last,and the last first.
Moses(blood) was before Elijah.(water) Get it?

Matthew 17:5
While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Some people say "so and so are the Two Witnesses because they represent the Law and the Prophets"
At the end of that road it all leads to his covenants.His Two Witnesses.They were there at the transfiguration of Jesus.And will be there at the transfiguration of the 144,000.Who will give the testimony of The Two Witnesses.And those who hear,and believe will be transfigured.

TheDivineWatermark · Mar 5, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Interesting that you have Moses connected with "blood" given the following things we read regarding him:

-- "Moses" means "drawn" -- [quoting from Strong's] "מֹשֶׁה Môsheh, mo-sheh'; from H4871; drawing out (of the water), i.e. rescued;"

--re: Moses -- Ex2:10 - "And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water."

Just a thought... = )

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 5, 2023

TheDivineWatermark said:

I know.I've never really understood why Mose's and Elijah were at the transfiguration.Honestly never put a lot of thought into it.God has never told me point blank who his Two witnesses were, but from what he has shown me in visions about the 144,000/Two Witnesses, I had to piece together. Knowing he was talking about the bible came quickly,but to gain a deeper understanding came slowly over time.

Moses led the Israelite's out of Egypt just like how God is calling out to his people to come out of Mystery Babylon.He gathers his people up and prepares them to leave Babylon during The testimony of Two Witnesses.For that you need the Spirit,Water,and the Blood.

Moses is as one just like the covenants are as one.Same could be said for Elijah.I don't really know how Elijah is though so don't ask me lol.
But for Moses he came as the water in the OT and in the NT he comes and is represented as the blood at the transfiguration.

IsaiahA · Mar 5, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Aren't you practicing eisegesis here rather than exegesis? Where in scripture did you find the statements you have written here in your OP and how did you make the connection?

"I have applied all this to myself and Apol′los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another." (1Cor 4:6 RSV)

"Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli′jah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, and when they wakened they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli′jah”—not knowing what he said. As he said this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!” And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silence and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen." (Luke 9:28-36 RSV)

"And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of man is raised from the dead.” And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli′jah must come?” He replied, “Eli′jah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Eli′jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." (Matt 17:9-13 RSV)

Athanasius377 · Mar 5, 2023

Moses represents the Law, and Elijah represents the Prophets. Both were assumed into heaven ( Moses according to tradition though scripture is silent) . Both were said to return at the end times (Deut 18:15-19, Mal 4:5).

IsaiahA · Mar 5, 2023

Deut. 18:15-19 is referring to Jesus Christ according to Acts of the apostles -

“And now, friends, I know that you acted in ignorance, as did also your rulers. In this way God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, that his Messiah would suffer. Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through his holy prophets. Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you from your own people a prophet like me. You must listen to whatever he tells you. And it will be that everyone who does not listen to that prophet will be utterly rooted out of the people.’ And all the prophets, as many as have spoken, from Samuel and those after him, also predicted these days. You are the descendants of the prophets and of the covenant that God gave to your ancestors, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your descendants all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ When God raised up his servant, he sent him first to you, to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.” (Acts 3:17-26 NRSV)

JohnDB · Mar 5, 2023

IsaiahA said:

Aren't you practicing eisegesis here rather than exegesis? Where in scripture did you find the statements you have written here in your OP and how did you make the connection?

"I have applied all this to myself and Apol′los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another." (1Cor 4:6 RSV)

"Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli′jah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, and when they wakened they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli′jah”—not knowing what he said. As he said this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!” And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silence and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen." (Luke 9:28-36 RSV)

"And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of man is raised from the dead.” And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli′jah must come?” He replied, “Eli′jah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Eli′jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." (Matt 17:9-13 RSV)

The ONLY reason that I can figure out as to how Peter recognized Elijah and Moses was by the staffs that they carried with them.
Pictures of people were forbidden in Israel. Roman culture allowed it....but in Jewish culture the only thing you could make pictures of were animals and plants....not people. Which is one reason why we really don't know what these people looked like.
We can guess....but Moses' staff would have the winged seraphim (snakes) and I am not sure about Elijah's staff. But Peter would know what it looked like.

MrE · Mar 5, 2023

IsaiahA said:

Aren't you practicing eisegesis here rather than exegesis? Where in scripture did you find the statements you have written here in your OP and how did you make the connection?

"I have applied all this to myself and Apol′los for your benefit, brethren, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another." (1Cor 4:6 RSV)

"Now about eight days after these sayings he took with him Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And as he was praying, the appearance of his countenance was altered, and his raiment became dazzling white. And behold, two men talked with him, Moses and Eli′jah, who appeared in glory and spoke of his departure, which he was to accomplish at Jerusalem. Now Peter and those who were with him were heavy with sleep, and when they wakened they saw his glory and the two men who stood with him. And as the men were parting from him, Peter said to Jesus, “Master, it is well that we are here; let us make three booths, one for you and one for Moses and one for Eli′jah”—not knowing what he said. As he said this, a cloud came and overshadowed them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. And a voice came out of the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, my Chosen; listen to him!” And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silence and told no one in those days anything of what they had seen." (Luke 9:28-36 RSV)

"And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of man is raised from the dead.” And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Eli′jah must come?” He replied, “Eli′jah does come, and he is to restore all things; but I tell you that Eli′jah has already come, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of man will suffer at their hands.” Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist." (Matt 17:9-13 RSV)

It’s the retelling of an experience as seen in spirit. Unless one understands such things, they will never understand these descriptions.

The same goes for the revelation of Jesus—. John tells us the key— he was in spirit when he saw and heard all that he ‘witnessed’ and in spirit is how it must be received to understand and make sense.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 5, 2023

Athanasius377 said:

“Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:11, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah : who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

studentoftheword · Mar 5, 2023

Thread title

Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

Representing the Law and the prophets ------and I believe these 2 will be brought back as the 2 Witnesses during the Tribulation -----

Revelation 11
The Two Witnesses
11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

Pilgrimshope · Mar 5, 2023

studentoftheword said:

Thread title

Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

Representing the Law and the prophets ------and I believe these 2 will be brought back as the 2 Witnesses during the Tribulation -----

Revelation 11
The Two Witnesses
11 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.

3 And I will appoint my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”

4 They are “the two olive trees” and the two lampstands, and “they stand before the Lord of the earth.”[a]

5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 They have power to shut up the heavens so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified. 9 For three and a half days some from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being

witnessed by the law ( Moses )

and the prophets;”( Elijah )
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nehemiah6 · Mar 5, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

How about the Law (Moses) and the Prophets (Elijah)? These two will also be the two prophets who will preach during the Tribulation as per Revelation 11. Their miracles will correspond to those already performed on earth by them.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 5, 2023

IsaiahA said:

If God were to reveal something to me,he wouldn't flat out tell me.I'd have to search it.He doe's the same thing to you.
I was stubborn to God sooo much,he would have to discipline me.I thought he was satan himself.No matter what he revealed to me I didn't believe.
Till I picked up the Bible and realized everything he said was the truth.Even spiritual truths.From that very first time I picked up the Bible and found a spiritual truth,there's no way would my carnal mind have picked up on that.
He had my head on cloud nine.It blew my mind.

My favorite subject is the 144,000 and the Two Witnesses because he wanted me to stand for him.But I can't stop being of the world.I'm talking about really letting go of the things of the world and keeping my heart and mind on God continually.
If you had a physical temple for God,would you put your tv or laptop there?The things you like to spend your day on that are not of God,would you put it in the temple?

I don't believe that I'm 144,000 anymore.It's why he revealed so much of these things to me.Because I'm stubborn.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

The spirit of Moses and Elijah.The Law and the Prophet leads to the covenants when it's all said and done.

posthuman · Mar 5, 2023

I also put a thread on this a couple of years ago too.

Speculating on what they symbolize doesn't give us the answer to why exactly these two specific people are there.

Any number of people could have represented 'prophecy' or 'water' or 'blood' etc - that's a superficial wild goose chase imo.

We need to sort out what is unique to Moses and Elijah that no one else in all of history could have been chosen to be present.

posthuman · Mar 5, 2023

Lifted_by_the_word said:

Elijah was neither the first nor the greatest prophet.
It doesn't fit.

TMS · Mar 5, 2023

One represented those that Jesus will raise from the dead, and one represented those that will be taken without seeing death...
The victory over death and our promise that Jesus will take the saved to heaven.

Lifted_by_the_word · Mar 5, 2023

posthuman said:

I don't understand what you mean by this and how it doesn't fit.Elijah had a spirit of repentance.He stood there as the water and Moses as the blood.
Even though Moses came as the water in the OT.At the transfiguration he is in the image of the blood.
They're as one and the same as the covenants are.I said I don't know how Elijah can be connected to the blood like as Moses can be to the water and the blood,but Elijah did bring a boy back to life in Kings 17:17-24.
I wouldn't doubt there's more scripture to back him up even more.
The transfiguration on Mount Tabor is key to who the Two Witnesses of Revelation are.

JaumeJ · Mar 5, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Quoting Revelation 11 does not specify the names of the two prophets....................

F2F · Mar 5, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

So you have half of the answer...can you go deeper?

Why Moses and Elijah were at the transfiguration.

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