Hell, Sheol, Hades...

[Magenta]

If the Bible says that the unsaved dead will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, that definitely means they are conscious.

Context? Has anyone been cast into the lake of fire at that point?

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all
the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out. People will come
from east and west and north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God.

Is this not the marriage supper of the Lamb?

 

[Magenta]

I didn't ignore that. I fully acknowledge God is eternal.

God ALONE is eternal. I do not ignore that, but you do.

 

[HeIsHere]

Since the dead know nothing, which is explicitly stated in Scripture, they are not in eternal torment.

The dead know nothing about this world not the next.

Ecclesiastes is an earthly perspective.

 

[Magenta]

If the those without Christ die, as in pronounced dead by a doctor, what does God still need to
annihilate since they do not have anything immortal that goes from this world to the next?

You keep asking the same question over and over again, even in different threads.

What part of there being a resurrection of all for judgment at the end of this age do you not understand?.

That, too, is a plain teaching of Scripture. Those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of Life
pass into the second death. Not being under grace, they are judged and condemned under the law.

Gotta skedaddle for now. See you later.

 

[HeIsHere]

You keep asking the same question over and over again, even in different threads.

What part of there being a resurrection of all for judgment at the end of this age do you not understand?.

That, too, is a plain teaching of Scripture. Those whose names are not in the Lamb's book of Life
pass into the second death. Not being under grace, they are judged and condemned under the law.

Gotta skedaddle for now See you later

I know because people are not answering. What is there to pass to the second death, what is there to annihilate?

I am trying to understand this to see if it fits logic and scripture.

 

[HeIsHere]

Why didn't God tell Adam, "Eat not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest ye burn in hell forever?"
Sheesh. It's really no wonder that I always end up taking the cartoon approach.

By the same token, God does not state "Eat not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest ye be annihilated, cease to exist?"

 

[Magenta]

I know because people are not answering. What is there to pass to the second death, what is there to annihilate?

I am trying to understand this to see if it fits logic and scripture.

I have answered, but you keep posing the question as if the whole person is not resurrected, and talk from a purely
atheistic, materialistic point of view when I have told you that is not at all what any of it is, nor is it my view.

Bye for now...

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

God ALONE is eternal. I do not ignore that, but you do.

Yeah, we both already established that in both of our posts. No one else but God has no beginning and no ending. But you're claiming that I ignore that. That's not cool and not very Christian to do. I've not made anything up about you.

For everyone else, look at my past posts and see that I've written the God is eternal. I've made no claims that there is anyone else as such.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Context? Has anyone been cast into the lake of fire at that point?

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all
the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves are thrown out. People will come
from east and west and north and south, and will recline at the table in the kingdom of God.

Is this not the marriage supper of the Lamb?

1. Matthew 8:12
   But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
   
   
2. Matthew 13:42
   They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
   
   
3. Matthew 13:50
   and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
   
   
4. Matthew 22:13
   “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
   
   
5. Matthew 24:51
   He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
   
   
6. Matthew 25:30
   And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
   
   
7. Luke 13:28
   “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out.
   

There's no mention that reclining at the table in the kingdom of God means that it is the marriage supper of the Lamb. The marriage supper of the Lamb won't be the only time we get to recline at the table in the kingdom of God so is not indicative of a specific time.

 

[Cameron143]

But notice these bodies are dead - not immortal like the bodies the Lord will give us who are saved. Notice that the immortal bodies the Lord will give us will continue to let us live and do stuff. The dead bodies that the unsaved have don't sound functional at all, but perpetually decaying. Hence why the worm can feed on them for the rest of forever.

The corollary is the burning bush that burned but was never consumed.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

The corollary is the burning bush that burned but was never consumed.

Yes, that's a great illustration! Thank you!

 

[Mem]

By the same token, God does not state "Eat not from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, lest ye be annihilated, cease to exist?"

God said, "lest ye die."

I have answered, but you keep posing the question as if the whole person is not resurrected, and talk from a purely
atheistic, materialistic point of view when I have told you that is not at all what any of it is, nor is it my view.

Bye for now...

I'm trying to zero in on exactly what that tactic is that is being employed. Misrepresenting an idea so that it's easier to knock down or, more probably in this case, burn forever. Strawman?

Whatever it is, it's dishonest.

 

[Mem]

But notice these bodies are dead - not immortal like the bodies the Lord will give us who are saved. Notice that the immortal bodies the Lord will give us will continue to let us live and do stuff. The dead bodies that the unsaved have don't sound functional at all, but perpetually decaying. Hence why the worm can feed on them for the rest of forever.

The corollary is the burning bush that burned but was never consumed.

The corollary is the living dead, zombies. We shouldn't base our theology on B-movies.

 

[HeIsHere]

God said, "lest ye die."


I'm trying to zero in on exactly what that tactic is that is being employed. Misrepresenting an idea so that it's easier to knock down or, more probably in this case, burn forever. Strawman?

Whatever it is, it's dishonest.

My point God stated neither, plain and simple.

 

[Mem]

My point God stated neither, plain and simple.

So then, you did get my point, about what He DID state?

 

[HeIsHere]

In scripture Death does not equal Extinction.

Neither does perish.

1 Timothy 5:6, KJV: But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

 

[Mem]

In scripture Death does not equal Extinction.

Neither does perish.

1 Timothy 5:6, KJV: But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

Is this is speaking of her spirit? burning forever in torment?

 

[HeIsHere]

But notice these bodies are dead - not immortal like the bodies the Lord will give us who are saved. Notice that the immortal bodies the Lord will give us will continue to let us live and do stuff. The dead bodies that the unsaved have don't sound functional at all, but perpetually decaying. Hence why the worm can feed on them for the rest of forever.

The worms that die not simply refer to maggots, fly larva. They do not die, they change into pupae and then into flies.

Sometimes things are just plain straightforward.

 

[Mem]

My point God stated neither, plain and simple.

To expand on my reasoning in posing the question in the first place. If it would be more a of deterrent from eating of the tree to have stated, "lest ye burn in hell forever,' then I'd think God would have said. But God simply said, "you will die," which supposedly sounds as vanilla? as being annihilated?

There's a wise old saying that advises against accepting plug nickels!

 

[HeIsHere]

Is this is speaking of her spirit? burning forever in torment?

No.
I am not looking to prove annihilationism wrong by defending eternal punishment.
So far from what I can tell, they both have issues.