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Baptist and Baptism
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
If it was not for God drawing us (John 6:44) and enabling us (John 6:65) we would never come to believe and be saved exclusively all by ourselves.
Yours is another way to say it.
We received grace through His sacrifice....death on the cross.
Why do you denigrate......works?...they are very important. Mentioning the two in the same breath suggest they are equal...which is not true.
Romans 3:24 - being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.
Romans 5:1,2 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:9 - Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
I do not denigrate work. I just put them in their proper place. Subsequent to having been saved through faith.
Ephesians 2:8-10 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
If it is grace, it is no longer works. Other wise grace is no longer grace.
This is scripture. Not a persons idea.
You are not answering my question...why refer to works when the topic was another?
I did answer your question. You asked me why do I denigrate works?
Further, I asked you why did you mention works with another topic as main? You haven't answered it.
Because you said, “Only by G-d's grace are we able to meet His standards for eternal salvation.”
Meeting standards implies works and you have already demonstrated that you believe man is saved by faith and works (with a heavy emphasis on water baptism).
In regards to meeting God’s standards see Romans 3:23 and Roman 6:23.
@mailmandan does not denigrate works at all.
In fact he has often posted many times
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.
Maybe he quoted V8-9 is because is to say that faith saves and not baptism.
Because baptism does not save us.
Yet you seem to denigrate faith and place the emphasis on works.
So you place works above faith. Works are superior to faith.
I have read your posts and the threads you have started.
Not once have I ever seen you talk about faith.
Now I could be wrong.
So please prove me wrong.
Whilst you do then like MMD as I have said many times.
Faith saves us unto good works.
As you do that then please quote posts that you have made concerning faith in Jesus.
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Dariadonashkina
Guest
Recently, I have become aware that the Baptist denomination has changed its interpretation of the Bible to suggest that baptism is not necessary for salvation, despite the scripture making it quite evident that it is a requirement. I would like to know a bit more about it.
I am independent baptist. We let the bible interpret itself.. take it as it is.
Baptism in the New Testament has two kinds. One is figurative. This is where you see a whole group of believers being 'baptised' with the Holy Spirit. This is a local church being empowered.. and in Acts is when the Holy Spirit came 'in the midst' of a local church.
This kind of baptism.. isn't about receiving eternal salvation.
The other kind is: full immersion water baptism. In the New Testament, this is believers being immersed in water completely-- as a picture of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. It signifies what has already happened in the individual believers life, by being eternally saved by Jesus Christ.
This water baptism by immersion is only for believers.. and not for infants. It also is a pre-requisite to join a local church. With this baptism they can then be voted in to a local church to be a member.
This water baptism though.. is a picture and is symbolic. It doesn't save a person eternally.
Neither baptism with the Holy Spirit that happened to groups in Acts.. neither individual water baptism are necessary for eternal salvation.
Water baptism is a work.. and good works have zero to do with receiving eternal life. There will be fruit from being saved.. but works don't get you saved.
In fact.. water baptism for salvation is the mark of NON-CHRISTIAN religion. Or a cult. It's that simple. I don't care that it is getting more popular now to believe water baptism is part of receiving salvation.... what does the bible say about it?
(1Pe 3:21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Water baptism-- does not put away the filth of the flesh. Therefore it is not receiving eternal life.
It saves-- by being a commitment to God to a salvaged life to Him... but this isn't eternal salvation.. but daily salvation.
The key thing being:
Daily salvation/service and eternal salvation are not the same thing.
Jesus' baptism was that of the Spirit. If the Baptist are asserting that water baptism is not required for salvation, then they are correct. It is only an outward testimony of what has already been accomplished. The precious blood of Jesus is the substance that saves.
Gods word says several times that baptism is for remission of sins of someone who repents
“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
Mark 1:4 KJV
It’s the same before and after Jesus died and rose
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,
and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”( that’s what John meant when he said Jesus would give the spirit )
Acts 2:38 KJV
It isn’t a second baptism it’s the completion of baptism for remission of sins since Christ came and died and rose now we receive the holy spirit from him it doesn’t change baptism at all it was and is what God said to do to receive remission of sins
We get baptized because we believe this is true
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
1 Corinthians 15:3 KJV
and so we hear and believe and when we get baptized it means this
When we say “ baptized for remission of sins in Christs name” it means this
“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? ( he died for our sins )
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( that’s why we are placed beneath the water like a burial when baptized )
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( why we are lifted up from the water )
knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”
( remission of sins )
Romans 6:3-4, 6-7 KJV
“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
Matthew 26:28 KJV
We believe that is true and we hear about baptism for remission of sins it is an action of faith likened to circumcision of the ot
to say baptism isn’t needed is like living under Moses law saying “ circumcision “ isn’t needed
“in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism,( why we are submerged ) wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.”( why we are raised up )
Colossians 2:11-12 KJV
there isn’t a reason for us to say baptism is anything other than what the Bible says It is an act of faith established by God for remission of sins of those who believe in Jesus
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Locoponydirtman
Guest
Many people try to make baptism a work of man which it is not. It is a work of God. You are correct, the body of scripture does indeed establish that baptism washes away sin and is therefore a key component of salvation.
Its the cult of man that takes credit for the work of God.
amen the grace cult where anything God said to do becomes a work and isn’t needed
“And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?
And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say, Why then believed ye him not?
But and if we say, Of men; all the people will stone us: for they be persuaded that John was a prophet. And they answered, that they could not tell whence it was.”
Luke 20:3-7
( johns ministry )
“The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:
( Jesus ministry )
and the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field: the grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of the LORD bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
Isaiah 40:3-8
johns ministry
“The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
“As it is written in the prophets,
Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, Which shall prepare thy way before thee.”( Malachi 3:1)
“The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. “( Isaiah 40)
John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. And there went out unto him all the land of Judæa, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
Mark 1:1, 3-5
( Jesus ministry from whom we receive the Holy Ghost )
“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
Luke 3:21-22 KJV
that’s what baptism is here also compare peters promise here
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38 KJV
the difference is now John doesn’t need to say “ Jesus will later give you the spirit “ he’s already on the throne and gives it to all believers baptism is still for repentance and remission of sins it hasn’t changed
johns baptism is the work of God , the word of God which he established and said “believe the gospel and be baptized in Jesus name and receive remission of your sins “
All that’s required is for us to hear and believe then we will be acting in faith and we’re going to get baptized knowing what God said it means for us