CJ Lovik with another prophecy backing up his 2030 return of Jesus

[Cameron143]

Here's how I understand it... I am fairly in agreement with what William Kelly has to say regarding "the four beasts" in his commentary on Daniel 7... quoted in part here:

[quoting Wm Kelly]

"It is plain, that whatever has fallen upon the Roman empire in past times, has been the ordinary course and decline of a great nation. Barbarian hordes tore it up, and separate kingdoms were formed. But prophecy tells us of another thing altogether. It warns of a judgment that disposes of the beast in a totally different way, and in contrast with the others. "I beheld till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time." That is, the remains of the Chaldeans, or of the races that were called so, we have still. Persia abides a kingdom, and the Greeks have lately become one. They exist, therefore, though not as imperial powers. We have these races of men, more or less, representing those powers; smaller, it is true, and no longer having dominion as empires. This is the meaning of ver. 12. Their dominion was taken away as rulers of the world, but "their lives were prolonged for a season and time." In this last empire, when the hour of its judgment comes, the fact is far otherwise. In the case of the first three beasts, they lost their imperial dignity, but themselves might be said to exist. But in the case of the fourth empire, the hour when its dominion is destroyed is the same hour in which it is itself destroyed. "The beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame." Who can doubt that this is the same scene that we have alluded to in Rev. 19, where we are told, "And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him that sat on the horse, and against His army"? The prophet had come to the last beast."

-- William Kelly, Commentary on Daniel 7 - Daniel 7 William Kelly Major Works Commentary (biblehub.com)

[end quoting; bold and underline mine]



____________


I think it is a major mistake to think that just because Rev13 DESCRIBES the final beast as "LIKE unto a LEOPARD, and his FEET were AS the feet of a BEAR, and his MOUTH AS the mouth of a LION..." that this somehow means all the previous beasts were also present at that [future] time (and THEN [supposedly at that FUTURE time] their lives were prolonged for a season and time, Dan7:12 [i.e. prolonged so that these humans [unsaved] supposedly ENTER the MK age, as some have suggested], rather than its saying something like (as we often say), "the kid has his grandfather's swift feet, and the same notch in his left ear that his father has..." (etc etc), in Rev13:2... and Daniel's (in 7:12) referring to the [NOW-] PAST kingdoms [/empires, or whatever] as having been ended, "yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time" BACK THEN when they existed (not "future," as some suppose Dan7:12 to be saying).

Make sense? = )

I understand your position. I merely disagree with it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I understand your position. I merely disagree with it.

What "Rome" lacked in the first century (the "ten horns" aspect), it WILL have in the "future"... that's how I understand it. = )

 

[Cameron143]

What "Rome" lacked in the first century (the "ten horns" aspect), it WILL have in the "future"... that's how I understand it. = )

I don't see the lack. It is easily explained by a succession of leaders.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't see the lack. It is easily explained by a succession of leaders.

Any viewpoint that disregards the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 (7:3)], and instead has them unfolding over the course of some near-2000 years, is immediately suspect in my mind.


["AVENGE IN QUICKNESS" - Lk18:8; and Rom16:20's "SHALL CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR feet IN QUICKNESS"--hasn't taken place yet = ) ]




(IOW, the "SEALS" of Rev6 [corresponding to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS" that Jesus spoke of, and that Paul stated the INTIAL one of, is the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" time-period] is what KICKS OFF the 7 year period that LEADS UP TO Christ's "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19; Seal #1 being the AC / the man of sin... the "G5100 'A CERTAIN ONE'"... bringing deception [which is often the meaning of "BOW"])

 

[Cameron143]

Any viewpoint that disregards the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" [Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1 (7:3)], and instead has them unfolding over the course of some near-2000 years, is immediately suspect in my mind.


["AVENGE IN QUICKNESS" - Lk18:8; and Rom16:20's "SHALL CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR feet IN QUICKNESS"--hasn't taken place yet = ) ]




(IOW, the "SEALS" of Rev6 [corresponding to "the BEGINNING of birth PANGS" that Jesus spoke of, and that Paul stated the INTIAL one of, is the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" time-period] is what KICKS OFF the 7 year period that LEADS UP TO Christ's "RETURN" to the earth in Rev19)

I understand why you believe as you do. As I explained at the outset, I have read your posts and that we would disagree. I rarely get into discussions on eschatology because they rarely change a person's perspective. I engaged with you because I knew ahead of time the discourse would remain respectful and about ideas. And I have enjoyed the exchange immensely.

 

[cv5]

... which I believe the Gog-Magog War is A PART of... noting the similarities of words found in both Seal #2 and Ezek38:4 ("all of them handling SWORDS")/ v.21's "SWORD [2x]" (including "every man's SWORD will be against his brother")... i.e. wars. (where the words "pestilence" [and so forth] follow in the next verse...)

And besides the "7 months" of burying the dead bodies and the "7 years" of burning the weapons, I've mentioned also the similarity in wording between what is stated in Ezek39:7 and that of what was said in the SECOND YEAR of Joseph's "7 year famine" in Gen45:1 [,6].
V.7 "SO [/in this manner] will I MAKE MY NAME KNOWN in the midst of My people Israel" (compare Gen45:1,6 "there STOOD NO MAN with him while Joseph MADE HIMSELF KNOWN UNTO HIS BRETHREN")... and noting the "wrath" wording in Ezek38:18,19.


Agreed.

But "the day of the Lord" is said to ARRIVE "exactly like [hosper]" the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" that comes upon a woman in labor, and Jesus spoke of those [PLURAL] as occurring prior to and leading up to the "AOD" [start of the GREAT tribulation]...

...noting especially the FIRST ONE He mentioned, which was Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ['a certain one' bringing deception]" which corresponds perfectly with the "whose COMING / ADVENT / ARRIVAL / PRESENCE / PAROUSIA" (2Th2:9a) of the man of sin, which verse corresponds with part "a" of Dan9:27 (9:27a) at the START of the "for ONE WEEK [/7 yrs]" (as well as Dan11:36-37=2Th2:4a,9) ... not at the LATER point in time (Dan9:27b, which corresponds with 2Th2:4b "sitteth," not to mention Dan11:12's "SET UP [H5414]" point in time, of the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" Jesus referred to in Matt24:15--at the start of the GT [/second half of the 7 yr period]).

Additionally, the SEALS of Rev6 are equivalent "the beginning of birth pangs" Jesus spoke of... and the SEALS are included within the "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" per Rev1:1 / 1:19c [/4:1], i.e. the "future" aspects of the book (that is, AFTER the "24 elders" saying "hast redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." and wearing "stephanous / crowns" which are said to be awarded "IN THAT DAY"... not the day of Paul's / others' DEATHS, as many suppose).





Disagree, for reasons stated above... and many more...

I was never quite convinced that the Magog invasion was pre or after the beginning of the trib. But I am now.

Great exegesis once again TDW. We are indebted to your efforts.

 

[cv5]

....because they rarely change a person's perspective.

Certainly not the case with me. I just switched from pre trib Magog to after it starts

 

[Cameron143]

Certainly not the case with me. I just switched from pre trib Magog to after it starts

Of course. You are exceptional.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I got you now. But how do you reconcile the kingdom that God sets up in the 4th kingdom that will never be destroyed?

I think I did go into that SOME, in my previous posts... but here's another thought:

Lk22 says,

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

[see also v.30 (about the 12 who will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel") and compare with Matt19:28 and compare THAT verse with its TIMING, in Matt25:31-34, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, yet future]




Compare, too, Lk22:18's "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until..."
to that of Matt26:29, which states, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it NEW with [/accompanying] you in my Father's kingdom."

[this is yet "future"... when He shall come, and shall sit upon the throne of His glory, i.e. an earthly-located throne... the throne of David is located on the earth... where both sheep and goats will be gathered before Him... there are no "goats" of the nations UP THERE at that time-slot]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

And I have enjoyed the exchange immensely.

Ditto for me. Thanks for the convo. = )





[I do realize that in some cases, such as in several posts earlier, perhaps my intentions were misunderstood by you... which is understandable, and I'm wondering if perhaps in some measure is still taking place. Not sure. I'm doing my best (Crayola-ing), lol]

 

[Cameron143]

I think I did go into that SOME, in my previous posts... but here's another thought:

Lk22 says,

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

[see also v.30 (about the 12 who will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel") and compare with Matt19:28 and compare THAT verse with its TIMING, in Matt25:31-34, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, yet future]




Compare, too, Lk22:18's "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until..."
to that of Matt26:29, which states, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it NEW with [/accompanying] you in my Father's kingdom."

[this is yet "future"... when He shall come, and shall sit upon the throne of His glory, i.e. an earthly-located throne... the throne of David is located on the earth... where both sheep and goats will be gathered before Him... there are no "goats" of the nations UP THERE at that time-slot]

The consummate teacher...leave them wanting more.

 

[cv5]

I would have to do some research and pray. I haven't considered those verses.

There is your problem. There are massive quantities of likeminded OT passages all pointing to the same inevitable future.....for Israel and gentiles all of them under the earthly reign of King Jesus Messiah who HAS RETURNED from the wedding.

I am on the road and posting on the phone. I am pretty much cripped in my posting abilities. Will have better success later tonight on my laptop.

 

[cv5]

I think I did go into that SOME, in my previous posts... but here's another thought:

Lk22 says,

15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.

17And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves:

18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

[see also v.30 (about the 12 who will "sit on 12 thrones, judgING the 12 tribes of Israel") and compare with Matt19:28 and compare THAT verse with its TIMING, in Matt25:31-34, i.e. His Second Coming to the earth, yet future]




Compare, too, Lk22:18's "I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until..."
to that of Matt26:29, which states, "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it NEW with [/accompanying] you in my Father's kingdom."

[this is yet "future"... when He shall come, and shall sit upon the throne of His glory, i.e. an earthly-located throne... the throne of David is located on the earth... where both sheep and goats will be gathered before Him... there are no "goats" of the nations UP THERE at that time-slot]

How in the world anyone could misinterpret those passages is beyond me....

 

[cv5]

Of course. You are exceptional.

Why thank you. Biblical truth, when rightly proclaimed, to me is blazing in refulgent glory when presented.

You just cannot miss it really.

And many thanks to TDW for his voluminous sincere efforts.

 

[Cameron143]

There is your problem. There are massive quantities of likeminded OT passages all pointing to the same inevitable future.....for Israel and gentiles all of them under the earthly reign of King Jesus Messiah who HAS RETURNED from the wedding.

I am on the road and posting on the phone. I am pretty much cripped in my posting abilities. Will have better success later tonight on my laptop.

As exciting as it is for me to have someone online explain to me my problem, I'll pass. I was speaking to the particular verses in view.
We've chatted a few times and while I don't remember the content of our discourse, I do recall its tenor. It should be the other way around. I'm not saying you are culpable, only that some things aren't edifying and so not worth pursuing.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The Roman empire has come and gone. Jesus did set up His kingdom in the first century. It has been growing steadily since.

Thats not true. Much of the events the final empire would do have yet to this day been fulfilled yet.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I would have to do some research and pray. I haven't considered those verses.

There are others.. It took me awhile to study..

 

[Cameron143]

Thats not true. Much of the events the final empire would do have yet to this day been fulfilled yet.

So where is the Roman empire today?

 

[Nehemiah6]

The Roman empire has come and gone. Jesus did set up His kingdom in the first century. It has been growing steadily since.

No. Jesus did NOT set up His Kingdom on earth in the first century. Christians are still pilgrims and strangers on earth. Christ will only set up His literal, tangible, visible, physical and spiritual Kingdom on earth after His Second Coming, and after the battle of Armageddon. In the meantime the Gospel must be preached, and many must be added to the Church before the Resurrection/Rapture.

 

[Cameron143]

No. Jesus did NOT set up His Kingdom on earth in the first century. Christians are still pilgrims and strangers on earth. Christ will only set up His literal, tangible, visible, physical and spiritual Kingdom on earth after His Second Coming, and after the battle of Armageddon. In the meantime the Gospel must be preached, and many must be added to the Church before the Resurrection/Rapture.

There is a visible kingdom. It is spiritual in nature and is in the hearts of believers, but it is manifest. What do you suppose Asbury exemplifies?