Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

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Everlasting-Grace

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ButterflyJones said:
I feel sorry for those who live to make contrary arguments against God's words.

When they arrive at the judgement they shall have to answer why they called Jesus a purveyor of lies.

And his answer will be what many on earth facing that obstinate blasphemy already expected. I never knew you.
And all the while those ones hearing this will still not understand even that. :(
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Nah,

He wont say he never knew me, Because Like abraham, I trust him, and he accounted it to me for righteousness.

By the way. Are you going to answer you accusation I flip flopped? or just prove yourself to be a false accuser also?
 
Snacks

Snacks

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ButterflyJones said:
I feel sorry for those who live to make contrary arguments against God's words.

When they arrive at the judgement they shall have to answer why they called Jesus a purveyor of lies.

And his answer will be what many on earth facing that obstinate blasphemy already expected. I never knew you.
And all the while those ones hearing this will still not understand even that. :(
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Blasphemy for placing their faith in Christ? 😆
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Jerusalem is symbolic of a nation - the nation of Israel. Salvation, however, is only to individuals.
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They still went against his will

how can a soverign God allow people to go against his will?

thats what I keep being told. that it is impossible
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
@rogerg Your friend could not answer me. maybe you can

Why was Israel able to chose to reject Christ against his own will?

Matthew 23:37

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
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There is a difference between what God desires and what God wills. Desire is an expression of what God sees as the highest good. Will is what God actually brings to pass.

This is why God can desire the salvation of all but not ensure it to all. If it were the will of God that everyone be saved, He would bring it to pass. And nothing you or I or anyone else could do would stop it. This is what Romans 9 is all about.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Snacks said:
Blasphemy for placing their faith in Christ? 😆
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lol. Yep..

I can see it now

Jesus: why do you deserve to be allowed into heaven

me: I don't deserve to be in heaven, I trusted you and your promise offered to me based on your death

Jesus: BLASPHEMY!!!:ROFL::ROFL::ROFL::ROFL:
 
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rogerg

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Yes, Abrahams faith was reckoned to him for righteousness (christs righteousness)

why do you ignore half the passage?

3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his faith) was accounted to him for righteousness.”

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

This is not Gods faith,

its is Abahams faith

and everyone else who believes as did abraham.

you can;t cut verses out of a passage and make a doctrine out of them. you must read the whole context
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Because "his faith" (Christ's faith) is being accounted to him, which faith justified Abraham.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
There is a difference between what God desires and what God wills. Desire is an expression of what God sees as the highest good. Will is what God actually brings to pass.

This is why God can desire the salvation of all but not ensure it to all. If it were the will of God that everyone be saved, He would bring it to pass. And nothing you or I or anyone else could anything to stop it. This is what Romans 9 is all about.
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So God has desires but wills against his own desires??
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Because "his faith" (Christ's faith) is being accounted to him, which faith justified Abraham.
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ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT (ABRAHAM'S FAITH) WAS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

the word GOD is not in the passage...
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Because "his faith" (Christ's faith) is being accounted to him, which faith justified Abraham.
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No matter how you try to spin it

It was AFTER Abraham believed,. that anything was accounted as righteousness.. Even if you think it was christ's faith that was credited. It STILL happened AFTER abraham believed..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Faith is a gift to those God chose for salvation. Otherwise, if not a gift, it would be a work.
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Its only a work if you trust yourself

Since you do not do anything to save yourself. its not a work.

Abraham believed first. then it was accounted as righteousness. (justified)
 
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rogerg

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Everlasting-Grace said:
ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND IT (ABRAHAM'S FAITH) WAS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS

the word GOD is not in the passage...
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You're not considering all of the verses. Man faith has no righteousness. Only Christ's does. For Abraham to receive it,
it had to be Christ's.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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Cameron143 said:
No. You conflate the two. I showed how they were different and not mutually exclusive.
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No, I am trying to make the two agree

God desired. But God did not force.

His will was for them to desire him as any loving father does

So his desire and will are perfectly in harmony.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
You're not considering all of the verses. Man faith has no righteousness. Only Christ's does. For Abraham to receive it,
it had to be Christ's.
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I am just going of what Paul wrote as inspired by God himself

Abraham BELIEVED (first) and THEN it was accounted for righterousness

So to WHOEVER BELIEVES (First) it to will be accounted to them

we do not change the meaning of words or change passages to fit our belief system.
 
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rogerg

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Everlasting-Grace said:
Its only a work if you trust yourself

Since you do not do anything to save yourself. its not a work.

Abraham believed first. then it was accounted as righteousness. (justified)
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Anything needed for salvation is a work
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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rogerg said:
Anything needed for salvation is a work
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lol

I will go off what God said,

it is his will that whoever sees and believes.

We see that in Romans 4 where faith of abraham is differentiated from works

We also see it in John 6. where Jesus said it is the work of God WE BELIEVE.

We are saved by grace.. but that grace is not just given to anyone. It is only recieved by those who have faith

as John said, But as many as have recieved him, to THEM he gave the right (power) to become children of God.
 
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rogerg

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Everlasting-Grace said:
I am just going of what Paul wrote as inspired by God himself

Abraham BELIEVED (first) and THEN it was accounted for righterousness

So to WHOEVER BELIEVES (First) it to will be accounted to them

we do not change the meaning of words or change passages to fit our belief system.
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God told us that:

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

You need to consider other verses too
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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Everlasting-Grace said:
No, I am trying to make the two agree

God desired. But God did not force.

His will was for them to desire him as any loving father does

So his desire and will are perfectly in harmony.
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That's the problem. God moves according to His will, not His desire. Doing so, sometimes the two align, at other points they don't.
 
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