Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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God did not save me until I bowed my head in despiration and called out for him to save me, while acknowledging I was dead, with no hope whatsoever, and apart from him, I had no hope
God worked on my heart for many months though, through people. through things I saw. and through his word..He prepaired my heart so I could say Yes Lord..
God worked on my heart for many months though, through people. through things I saw. and through his word..He prepaired my heart so I could say Yes Lord..
God started long before you repented. He worked the circumstances of your life perfectly to bring you to repentance and faith. You came because He sought you and bought you. Your recognition of His love came long after He began manifesting it to you. Your understanding finally caught up to God's activity.
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yes,
But I was not made alive UNTIL I was justified.Until I recieved the washing of regeneration (forgiveness of sin and new birth) as my sin was washed away by the blood of Christ.
Which happened, when I became as the tax collector. and cried out to Jesus (I literally was crying also) it was then, that I went home justified (it was over 40 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday)
But I was not made alive UNTIL I was justified.Until I recieved the washing of regeneration (forgiveness of sin and new birth) as my sin was washed away by the blood of Christ.
Which happened, when I became as the tax collector. and cried out to Jesus (I literally was crying also) it was then, that I went home justified (it was over 40 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday)
I would disagree at what point someone becomes alive. I don't think dead people wrestle with the things of God. But I don't want to debate the time-line of salvation but will offer some scripture for you to consider if you are so inclined.
Luke 15
Jesus is telling a parable. It is all one parable with 3 parts. Most read it as 3 separate parables, but it is actually only 1. It makes a difference to the meaning.
Luke 15
Jesus is telling a parable. It is all one parable with 3 parts. Most read it as 3 separate parables, but it is actually only 1. It makes a difference to the meaning.
I disagree
I was dead because of my sin (the penalty of sin is death)
I can not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin. that must be removed first.
the removal of sin is called justification, the cause is redemption, which is the price Jesus paid with his son's blood.
I was justified when in that moment of sitting with the deacon from my church. I understood what he was telling me, and actually called on the name of the lord in Faith and said I want to receive his grace gift of eternal life..
I wrestled with the things of God before that moment on that Sunday morning, when I walked up the aisle during the singing of Just as I am (I remember it vividly) and up until that time, I was under the penalty of sin, which was separation from God. or spiritual death.
the parables in Luke speak of people who were saved, and walked away. I was a prodigal son for 5 years back in the early 2000's Everything the parables said occured.. God came to find me, I heard his voice and I followed. I was at the end of my rope. because I left my fathers blessings (I was suicidal at the time, completely lost and bancrupt, fully chastened by God, because I was his son) and I returned, as the son did. and found my way home
I was dead because of my sin (the penalty of sin is death)
I can not be made alive while still under the penalty of sin. that must be removed first.
the removal of sin is called justification, the cause is redemption, which is the price Jesus paid with his son's blood.
I was justified when in that moment of sitting with the deacon from my church. I understood what he was telling me, and actually called on the name of the lord in Faith and said I want to receive his grace gift of eternal life..
I wrestled with the things of God before that moment on that Sunday morning, when I walked up the aisle during the singing of Just as I am (I remember it vividly) and up until that time, I was under the penalty of sin, which was separation from God. or spiritual death.
the parables in Luke speak of people who were saved, and walked away. I was a prodigal son for 5 years back in the early 2000's Everything the parables said occured.. God came to find me, I heard his voice and I followed. I was at the end of my rope. because I left my fathers blessings (I was suicidal at the time, completely lost and bancrupt, fully chastened by God, because I was his son) and I returned, as the son did. and found my way home
actually they are three parables not one..
the first two speaks of the joy in heaven when a SINNER (A person who is dead, lost, has no hope.) Repents
My comment still stands
I was dead UNTIL I called out to God in that back room,
Yet God drew me for months before this, and I was searching answered while dead
luke 15 does not refute that..
the first two speaks of the joy in heaven when a SINNER (A person who is dead, lost, has no hope.) Repents
My comment still stands
I was dead UNTIL I called out to God in that back room,
Yet God drew me for months before this, and I was searching answered while dead
luke 15 does not refute that..
I believe that we were all made spiritually dead in sin because of law. Only the law brings the assessment/condemnation/penalty of sin, therefore, were there no law then there could be no sin.
[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Rom 7:8-11 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[Rom 6:14 KJV] 14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
[Rom 7:8-11 KJV]
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life, I found [to be] unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].
[1Co 15:55-57 KJV]
55 O death, where [is] thy sting? O grave, where [is] thy victory?
56 The sting of death [is] sin; and the strength of sin [is] the law.
57 But thanks [be] to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Hey brother. Always blessed to chat with you.
The outworkings of salvation is not an easy endeavor. For though man has been corrupted by the sin of Adam, he is still capable of thought and action. This being the case and because the actions of God are not always evident to us, a complete understanding is impossible. So when I make a statement I make it in general and cannot be sure of any individual case.
That may seem like a dodge so I'll try to answer more specifically having shown the limitations. If I come across a person who is seeking God, and I know that there are none who seek after God, I assume God is at work. I share the gospel and trust that God will bring forth life. If God is working, life will be given. If not, I would say the interest finds its roots in the individual and at some point the interest will turn to other pursuits. Whatever profession was made, it ultimately would have been false and not the working of God in the individual.
This is why we are to examine ourselves to make our calling sure. And why there are some who will hear depart from me as is the case in Matthew 7:23.
Ultimately, we aren't qualified to know because while we can judge outward behavior, we cannot see into the heart. Thus, all our judgments are incomplete and can only be functional and not final. It is only God who is able to judge without error.
I imagine we shall all be surprised in that great and terrible day of the Lord to see some in the ranks of glory we least suspected, and some in perdition that seemed most likely to make heaven their home.
I understand why some believe that individuals stand before God based on their own choice. But I don't trust myself enough to make choices being saved, let alone the choices I made before that. I would much rather entrust myself to the choice of a merciful God. But that's me. And I only am charged to give an account of myself.
I know it's a long reply. Thanks for your forbearance.
The outworkings of salvation is not an easy endeavor. For though man has been corrupted by the sin of Adam, he is still capable of thought and action. This being the case and because the actions of God are not always evident to us, a complete understanding is impossible. So when I make a statement I make it in general and cannot be sure of any individual case.
That may seem like a dodge so I'll try to answer more specifically having shown the limitations. If I come across a person who is seeking God, and I know that there are none who seek after God, I assume God is at work. I share the gospel and trust that God will bring forth life. If God is working, life will be given. If not, I would say the interest finds its roots in the individual and at some point the interest will turn to other pursuits. Whatever profession was made, it ultimately would have been false and not the working of God in the individual.
This is why we are to examine ourselves to make our calling sure. And why there are some who will hear depart from me as is the case in Matthew 7:23.
Ultimately, we aren't qualified to know because while we can judge outward behavior, we cannot see into the heart. Thus, all our judgments are incomplete and can only be functional and not final. It is only God who is able to judge without error.
I imagine we shall all be surprised in that great and terrible day of the Lord to see some in the ranks of glory we least suspected, and some in perdition that seemed most likely to make heaven their home.
I understand why some believe that individuals stand before God based on their own choice. But I don't trust myself enough to make choices being saved, let alone the choices I made before that. I would much rather entrust myself to the choice of a merciful God. But that's me. And I only am charged to give an account of myself.
I know it's a long reply. Thanks for your forbearance.
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