My message to them is this: "You know God exists but you do not follow Him. However, I'm willing to believe you might simply reject the teachings of a particular church or a church leader. Perhaps you recognize hypocrisy among people who say they are believers. If you want, I'll examine those issues with you to see if they align with the nature of who God actually is".
The Heresy of Annihilationism
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It doesn't say a lot of things are no more.
But the standard in the age to come is that "all things are made new" and that "God is all in all". I assume "all" means "at the exclusion of nothing".
To put it another way, when it is written that Jesus is the ultimate "Lord of all" it is assumed that all other claims of "Lord of all-ship" are excluded. There is no need to list those that are excluded.
What ECT teaches is that, in the age to come, "God is all in some" and that "most things are made new".
How foolish.
The Word also records, after the Judgement:
"..there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
What ECT teaches is that there will be no death, sorrow or crying for most and that "there will be some pain".
No. All of that is destroyed in the Lake of Fire with everything and everyone that opposed God.
But the standard in the age to come is that "all things are made new" and that "God is all in all". I assume "all" means "at the exclusion of nothing".
To put it another way, when it is written that Jesus is the ultimate "Lord of all" it is assumed that all other claims of "Lord of all-ship" are excluded. There is no need to list those that are excluded.
What ECT teaches is that, in the age to come, "God is all in some" and that "most things are made new".
How foolish.
The Word also records, after the Judgement:
"..there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
What ECT teaches is that there will be no death, sorrow or crying for most and that "there will be some pain".
No. All of that is destroyed in the Lake of Fire with everything and everyone that opposed God.
Yep.. Doesn't say the LOF is destroyed does it?
Revelation 14:11
New King James Version
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Where is this smoke ascending from FOREVER AND EVER?
And if they DON'T exist, why mention they have no rest day or night?
Revelation 14:11
New King James Version
11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Where is this smoke ascending from FOREVER AND EVER?
And if they DON'T exist, why mention they have no rest day or night?
Well, if we let scripture interpret scripture "forever and ever", here, clearly means "in this age and until the end of the age".
Now, and this part is difficult for most, even the current reign of the Son ends when all things are made subject to God.
"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."
In the previous verse this is written:
"For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted."
And before that "For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet."
So, the only One not put under the reign of Christ is God, at the end of the age.
So, even though it is recorded, many times, that the Lord shall reign "forever and ever" (the exact words used to describe the smoke of the torment) His reign actually continues "till He has put all enemies under His feet." Then His reign is complete. Then God will be all in all.
In fact, it seems "forever and ever" marks the same moment in time: when Christ brings everything into subjection to God.
Now, and this part is difficult for most, even the current reign of the Son ends when all things are made subject to God.
"Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all."
In the previous verse this is written:
"For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted."
And before that "For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet."
So, the only One not put under the reign of Christ is God, at the end of the age.
So, even though it is recorded, many times, that the Lord shall reign "forever and ever" (the exact words used to describe the smoke of the torment) His reign actually continues "till He has put all enemies under His feet." Then His reign is complete. Then God will be all in all.
In fact, it seems "forever and ever" marks the same moment in time: when Christ brings everything into subjection to God.
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This is a good example of misapplying Scripture. This describes the earth AFTER the Great White Throne judgment. But it does not change the outcome of the judgment, which is eternal torment in the Lake of Fire (in outer darkness). There is indeed a New Heavens and a New Earth, but not a new Lake of Fire where everyone has been annihilated!
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This seems to be to be a lack of understanding the Trinity. But ALSO I couldn't find a SINGLE translation that said "THEN HIS REIGN IS COMPLETE". Where did you get that?
Also, the word AIO'N can absolutely mean forever:
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.
Just because Jesus, who IS God, can be subject to His Father, doesn't mean He doesn't continue to rule. Again, this is a Trinity situation.
Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
The "He" here refers to both Father and Son, although the Son has chosen to subject Himself to the Father.
Here it is again.
Psalm 89:29
New King James Version
29 His seed also I will make to endure forever,
And his throne as the days of heaven.
The word "forever" here is
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Also, the word AIO'N can absolutely mean forever:
Usage: an age, a cycle (of time), especially of the present age as contrasted with the future age, and of one of a series of ages stretching to infinity.
Just because Jesus, who IS God, can be subject to His Father, doesn't mean He doesn't continue to rule. Again, this is a Trinity situation.
Revelation 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.”
The "He" here refers to both Father and Son, although the Son has chosen to subject Himself to the Father.
Here it is again.
Psalm 89:29
New King James Version
29 His seed also I will make to endure forever,
And his throne as the days of heaven.
The word "forever" here is
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Strong's Concordance
ad: perpetuityOriginal Word: עַד
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ad
Phonetic Spelling: (ad)
Definition: perpetuity
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from adah
Definition
perpetuity
NASB Translation
all (1), continually (1), Eternal (1), ever (15), forever (26), forever* (1), forevermore* (2), old (1), perpetual (1).
No Mistaking that to mean "a single age".
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: ad
Phonetic Spelling: (ad)
Definition: perpetuity
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from adah
Definition
perpetuity
NASB Translation
all (1), continually (1), Eternal (1), ever (15), forever (26), forever* (1), forevermore* (2), old (1), perpetual (1).
No Mistaking that to mean "a single age".
It is true: My views of the Trinity are not like the Roman Catholics'.
But in the quote above, do you think the scriptures meant "heaven" as in the one now that will currently come to an end?
You can't ignore the standards of scripture. In this case Strong's won't help you: you'll have to believe what's written. And you're being a bit disingenuous about aion: Strong's shows that it may also mean "until the end of the age".
If you want an honest discussion you'll have to admit your own bias.
But in the quote above, do you think the scriptures meant "heaven" as in the one now that will currently come to an end?
You can't ignore the standards of scripture. In this case Strong's won't help you: you'll have to believe what's written. And you're being a bit disingenuous about aion: Strong's shows that it may also mean "until the end of the age".
If you want an honest discussion you'll have to admit your own bias.
It is true: My views of the Trinity are not like the Roman Catholics'.
But in the quote above, do you think the scriptures meant "heaven" as in the one now that will currently come to an end?
You can't ignore the standards of scripture. In this case Strong's won't help you: you'll have to believe what's written. And you're being a bit disingenuous about aion: Strong's shows that it may also mean "until the end of the age".
If you want an honest discussion you'll have to admit your own bias.
But in the quote above, do you think the scriptures meant "heaven" as in the one now that will currently come to an end?
You can't ignore the standards of scripture. In this case Strong's won't help you: you'll have to believe what's written. And you're being a bit disingenuous about aion: Strong's shows that it may also mean "until the end of the age".
If you want an honest discussion you'll have to admit your own bias.
So how about starting there. And why didn't you answer what translation you got THIS from, "THEN HIS REIGN IS COMPLETE".
I don't have questions on the Trinity.
Jesus is fully God. The Father is fully God, and the Holy Spirit is fully God.
Separate, yet One.
You implied you believe differently. And it has relevance to what we are talking about.
Third try now. Where did you get THIS?: "THEN HIS REIGN IS COMPLETE".
Remember, that's what YOU said, NOT me.
Jesus is fully God. The Father is fully God, and the Holy Spirit is fully God.
Separate, yet One.
You implied you believe differently. And it has relevance to what we are talking about.
Third try now. Where did you get THIS?: "THEN HIS REIGN IS COMPLETE".
Remember, that's what YOU said, NOT me.
It was in the verse I quoted. I will add my commentary:
1 Corinthians 15:24-28 "Then comes the end (The end of what? The end of this age.), when He (this is Christ) delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power (this is all the rule and authority in the earth; but what about His rule? Let's continue...) . For He (this is Christ) must reign till (till? You mean their is a condition that marks the end of His reign? Till what?) He has put all enemies under His feet. (There, so Christ reigns until He has put all enemies under His feet, that is, His authority) The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. (So even death is destroyed) For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He (this is God the Father) who put all things under Him is excepted (Christ will not put God the Father under Hid feet). Now when all things are made subject to Him (this is God the Father), then the Son Himself (This is Christ) will also be subject to Him (This is the Father) who put all things under Him (This is Christ), (To what end?) that God may be all in all."
Point being: the phrase "forever and ever" is the phrase used to describe the reign of Christ. It is the same phrase used to describe the smoke of the torment. Yet, we see that Christ's reign is complete when He delivers the Kingdom to God and God becomes all in all at the end of this age.
To note: The prevailing law here is that "the seed is within itself". In this case, the seed of God is within God Himself. When the seed fully matures, the seed is God and there is no need for a mediator between God and man. In Him, we (corporately) become Christ, part of the Godhead. This occurs at the beginning of the next age, after the Judgement. His rule, however, ends, as there is no creation and powers to rule over, except for God. God will not be ruled over. God will be all in all.