Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

[Mem]

A dog likes to think that it's human but it'll eat it's vomit with no qualms about it. The chapter is addressing hypocrites (those saying they believe but are liars), which are likened to dogs, they do not war against their carnal nature. Their flesh is in perfect harmony with their spirit. True believers on the other hand will always be engaged in a struggle until we are perfected, and then our flesh will not be at war against our spirit. So, as a human might vomit but will just say, 'ugh, i vomited,' but won't eat it, so it is with the saved. Though their flesh may vomit, their spirit will be disqusted with the thought and so prevent them from eating it.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

so your going to resist God and his chastening, and continue to do something that makes you want to eat your vomit

you worry me my friend

I'm not but Peter is showing us in 2 Peter 2:20 those people did.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I missed this. I think you owe this member an apology.

Is THIS what Jesus would say?

In this discussion, Jesus most likely would have called him a Viper and full of Dead Bones.

 

[ResidentAlien]

LOL!

Too funny, coming from the originator of the thread!

The whole POINT is I'm NOT hung up on this issue, and want those that are "striving" to remain saved to come to the realization that JESUS is the One who saves us AND keeps us saved.

Yeah, I started the thread almost a year and a half ago but I certainly haven't been the one keeping it going. It could die and fade into oblivion for all I care; but someone else would just come along and start a new one.

You think you know what other people think and feel. They're "striving," they're "working for salvation." It seems to me a lot of this comes from your own mind because you're still not at peace within yourself. You're certainly way off track in your estimation of me.

 

[HeIsHere]

Agreed!

But I already mentioned I once had a Baptist Pastor who Preached OSAS and CALVINISM while he led KKK members to hunt down and hang people of color off tree branches.

They can only see their own deception as being a truth.

So people's behaviour is our test if something is scriptural?

People lie and twist truth for there own selfish motives all the time.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

This passage refers to Jews who never believed in Jesus to begin with. Not those who were born again as a new creation by Jesus. Jews who at one time didn’t believe in their Messiah, but now do, can certainly be grafted onto the olive tree, which is Jesus Christ.

So I ask again. Does the born again child, who has been made new by Jesus, and has subsequently fallen away and lost his Salvation, have to be born again again?

No, it is a warning to Gentiles not to boast because they could also loose their place. They could also be cut off the same as the chosen people had been.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

So people's behaviour is our test if something is scriptural?

People lie and twist truth for there own selfish motives all the time.

If it's correctly interpreted I would never question it.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It's not sinning but turning your back on God to go back to that old lifestyle. It's called back sliding.

ah so its called living a life of sin. or living in sin, or habitually sinning

1 John 3: 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I can't sin because of the seed of God in me.

if you can return to a life of sin, then you should question why

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I do not know , by the way he is answering , not very nice at all...The way he answered me back when he made that remark to you told me to leave that person alone...

I keep hoping something will open their eyes.. and they can see what they are doing..

 

[Rosemaryx]

I keep hoping something will open their eyes.. and they can see what they are doing..

Only the Holy Spirit can do that , and sometimes we are to wipe our feet , and not continue to throw our pearls...

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I'm not but Peter is showing us in 2 Peter 2:20 those people did.

Yes they did

Because they were and always were dogs..

its why they can eat their vomit and not get sick or think it tastes like good food.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

romans 11. they are Israel. who are blinded in part. if they (Israel)

it is not talking about induvidual believers

Sorry, speaking to Gentiles, and to the Jews, individuals. Look again at the portion of Scripture.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

ah so its called living a life of sin. or living in sin, or habitually sinning

1 John 3: 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.


7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

I can't sin because of the seed of God in me.

if you can return to a life of sin, then you should question why

You never Sin?

Never falsely judge someone by appearances?

Never have an evil thought?

Always perfect?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No, it is a warning to Gentiles not to boast because they could also loose their place. They could also be cut off the same as the chosen people had been.

17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

Yes they could. In fact they will. and all will be returned to Israel. when jesus sits on his throne in Jerusalem.

irts still talking about gentiles as a group not induviduals

 

[pottersclay]

They are equally important.

You cannot know Jesus without Him knowing you first.

You can know OF Him, but that is different than knowing Him.

But JESUS havent we done all these things? Heal, raise the dead and so on...but JESUS replied
I NEVER KNEW YOU.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

it does not say we can lose salvation.

Eternal life is eternal. and God said we have it

if we can lose eternal life, it is not eternal, is it?

Well I wouldn't jump on that train too quickly. I have said that the Abrahamic Covenant is unconditional and eternal and people here have argued black and blue with me over that. Eternal life is eternal to those who believe, to those who follow and endure the race till the end.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Sorry, speaking to Gentiles, and to the Jews, individuals. Look again at the portion of Scripture.

I did.

they are Israel. Blinded in part

they are natural branches

they as a nation were cut off (in 70 AD)

they will all be saved (in the future) when the time of the gentile has been fulfilled.

They are hated according to the gospel. but beloeved according to the promises.

we (gentiles) are a group.

we are unnatural branches

we were grafted in

we should not boast (as still happens today sadly)

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Only the Holy Spirit can do that , and sometimes we are to wipe our feet , and not continue to throw our pearls...

Where did I EVER SAY God will throw away my Salvation or I must earn it?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You never Sin?

Never falsely judge someone by appearances?

Never have an evil thought?

Always perfect?

Sin, and LIVING in sin is two different things


No one is sinless perfect. So john can not be talking about a believer who never sins period

he is talking about a life of sin..

And he says a child of God can not do that..l

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

But JESUS havent we done all these things? Heal, raise the dead and so on...but JESUS replied
I NEVER KNEW YOU.

What does he mean when he says he NEVER KNEW THEM?