Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

[HeIsHere]

It means that whoever perseveres to the end of the tribulation and is living when Christ returnes will have their physical lives saved.

what does that have to do with eternal salvation?

So saved here is a "physical" salvation, are their times when salvation is about the salvation of one's soul too like in James and in Paul, the book of Hebrews?

As in "work out your salvation?"

 

[Cameron143]

The Bible actually teaches that it is possible for one who is eternally saved by God’s grace to:

1) Commit idolatry and apostasy (1 Kgs. 11:1-10)
2) Believe only for a while (Luke 8:13)
3) Not continue in the Word of Christ (Jn. 8:31)
4) Not abide in Christ (John 15:1-8)
5) Become disqualified in the race of the Christian life (1 Cor. 9:24-27)
6) Resist God’s chastening and correcting to the point of physical death (1 Cor. 11:30-32)
7) Stray from the faith (1 Timothy 1:5-6)
8) Shipwreck faith (1 Timothy 1:18-20)
9) Fall away from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
10) Deny the faith (1 Timothy 5:8)
11) Cast off initial faith and follow Satan (1 Timothy 5:12-15)
12) Stray from the faith by loving money (1 Timothy 6:9-10)
13) Stray from the faith by professing false doctrine (1 Timothy 6:20-21)
14) Deny Christ and be faithless (2 Timothy 2:11-13)
15) Have faith overthrown (2 Timothy 2:14-18)

I agree. That's why outward works are so undependable as a barometer of faith. But the work of God which result in the fruit of the Spirit can only be produced by God, and, if present, are sure.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Really? What about the grace of God? What about Jesus? Is not He the one who saves us?

That goes without saying, but there has to be a response on our part and that response is faith.

 

[HeIsHere]

I disagree. A dead faith has no life, which is no faith at all. Just a CLAIMED FAITH

James was not speaking about saving faith.

James does not mean that the faith is false or nonexistent.

You are basically saying Abraham's faith was non-existent until many years later when he went to offer up his son.

No point going further then, no where is the word in Greek for "death" used to mean non-existent, James had a word for non-existent but he could have used but he did not.

So you have a problem with the verbiage, but you want to deny this problem not much I can do.

 

[HeIsHere]

I agree. That's why outward works are so undependable as a barometer of faith. But the work of God which result in the fruit of the Spirit can only be produced by God, and, if present, are sure.

Agree.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So mental assent then is not personal it is just facts.
This is not dead faith neither, it is a lack of knowledge, the full picture.

No. Faith is the fact you believe something happened and because of your faith. You are saved any God changes your life. Which is works. Hence I will prove my faith by my worjs
mental assent means you believe it but you do not trust it. So you have a claimed faith. But since your faith is dead you will never show any fruit is salvation (works) because you were never saved hence. Can that faith save you. The answer is no. Even demons believe (mental assent) yet tremble. (They know it’s true but never acted on it in faith. They rebelled

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So saved here is a "physical" salvation, are their times when salvation is about the salvation of one's soul too like in James and in Paul, the book of Hebrews?

As in "work out your salvation?"

Work out your salvation. You have it. So take what you have and work it out.
What other salvation could James be talking about? Saving your physical life? Where is that in context?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

James was not speaking about saving faith.

James does not mean that the faith is false or nonexistent.

You are basically saying Abraham's faith was non-existent until many years later when he went to offer up his son.

No point going further then, no where is the word in Greek for "death" used to mean non-existent, James had a word for non-existent but he could have used but he did not.

So you have a problem with the verbiage, but you want to deny this problem not much I can do.

Lol
show me where eternal salvation is not in context
faith is either long (real) or dead (non living)
can a non living faith (mere belief) save you?
you have yet to answer. Can I believe yet not trust and still be saved?

 

[HeIsHere]

Work out your salvation. You have it. So take what you have and work it out.
What other salvation could James be talking about? Saving your physical life? Where is that in context?

I really do not think you are willing to even consider the meaning of "dead" in the book of James as meaning "useless, inoperative" which is semantically 100% the correct view.

To equate "dead" with non-existent/mere denies the actual meaning of words and redefines them.

Word meanings matter in context.

Have a good day. I have snow to shovel.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I really do not think you are willing to even consider the meaning of "dead" in the book of James as meaning "useless, inoperative" which is semantically 100% the correct view.

To equate "dead" with non-existent/mere denies the actual meaning of words and redefines them.

Word meanings matter in context.

Have a good day. I have snow to shovel.

Actually. I interpret dead exactly that way. As James did

Can that CLAIMED faith save you if it is dead?

It is useless.

Paul was we are saved by GRACE through faith. And those saved WILL produce works (eph 2: 8-10)

if someone’s faith is dead (useless) it can nt save them. And one way to determin if our faith is dead is to examine ourselves. If we claim we have faith. But have no works. Are we really saved?

James says no.. we better re-evaluate our thinking

 

[awelight]

If a man has no works...is he saved? How many works justifies a man? I thank God I'm justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. He accomplished all the works. I'm simply asked to believe. Should a believer go on to good works? Of course, but some do not and will be judged accordingly at the JSOC. Their works will be burned, but they will be saved.

Well stated my friend.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I agree. That's why outward works are so undependable as a barometer of faith. But the work of God which result in the fruit of the Spirit can only be produced by God, and, if present, are sure.

Which brings us to a point.

If the work of God is in us. Why do we never do anything he says or become more like him, and continue to be like we were before we claimed faith?

Did God fail? (He who began a good work will complete it)

or did our faith fail? Because it was dead

 

[Cameron143]

Which brings us to a point.

If the work of God is in us. Why do we never do anything he says or become more like him, and continue to be like we were before we claimed faith?

Did God fail? (He who began a good work will complete it)

or did our faith fail? Because it was dead

Ultimately, it is because no grace was extended in the first place.
I see this debate as being over semantics moreso than substance.
I'm more of a substance guy than semantical. For the most part, the one's debating agree.

 

[HeIsHere]

Ultimately, it is because no grace was extended in the first place.
I see this debate as being over semantics moreso than substance.
I'm more of a substance guy than semantical. For the most part, the one's debating agree.

The meaning of words is important, actually very important.

 

[HeIsHere]

Actually. I interpret dead exactly that way. As James did

Can that CLAIMED faith save you if it is dead?

It is useless.

Paul was we are saved by GRACE through faith. And those saved WILL produce works (eph 2: 8-10)

if someone’s faith is dead (useless) it can nt save them. And one way to determin if our faith is dead is to examine ourselves. If we claim we have faith. But have no works. Are we really saved?

James says no.. we better re-evaluate our thinking

James is writing to saved people, that is the starting point.

 

[Cameron143]

The meaning of words is important, actually very important.

And yet somehow I figured it out anyways. God is good.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Ultimately, it is because no grace was extended in the first place.
I see this debate as being over semantics moreso than substance.
I'm more of a substance guy than semantical. For the most part, the one's debating agree.

Believe you me @HeIsHere and myself are not even on the same page nor do we even remotely agree

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

James is writing to saved people, that is the starting point.

Nope, that’s where you err, he is writing to the Jews his brothers and sisters. Many who are saved. Some who are not.

I am here to tell you, if you think a person can just believe and have a dead faith and be saved, you teach a licentious gospel, you are one of the people James is trying to wake up

 

[Cameron143]

Believe you me @HeIsHere and myself are not even on the same page nor do we even remotely agree

Then, by all means, debate away. But by judging by the success each is having upon the other, you can both pile up a bunch of dead works.

 

[HeIsHere]

Nope, that’s where you err, he is writing to the Jews his brothers and sisters. Many who are saved. Some who are not.

I am here to tell you, if you think a person can just believe and have a dead faith and be saved, you teach a licentious gospel, you are one of the people James is trying to wake up

I know you have to superimpose this on the text to make it all fit.

Makes so much sense, James telling non-saved people to count it all joy when they fall into diverse temptations.

I do not teach a licentious gospel, lordship salvationists always resort to the false accusation of easy believism, a straw man argument.
Please put me on ignore I am done responding further.