Justified/Saved by Faith & Faith Alone

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Chester

Chester

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#301
May 23, 2016
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#301
ResidentAlien said:
Faith alone is the essential ingredient; it alone is indispensable. The reformers didn't just make it up, it's what the Bible teaches.
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"Faith alone" that saves?

Really? What about the grace of God? What about Jesus? Is not He the one who saves us?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#302
May 21, 2022
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#302
Cameron143 said:
And my point was that it is inevitable that Christians will grow due to the work of God.
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The person still has to be open to the move of God. We are not automatons.

Again if it were automatic James would not have had to write those letters.

God can chastise and some will harden themselves against the workings of God. we each have our own unique personality, and God deals with each person individually and circumstances vary and so I refuse to make blanket assertions that are not in scripture.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

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#303
Dec 18, 2021
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#303
wattie said:
James was saying their faith without works is alone. Not never there or lost.

Again.. all the examples..

Abraham.. his act in being prepared to offer up his son Isaac was justified in terms of a right act. It wasn't to do with eternal salvation.

Abraham believed God and was converted before offering up his son Isaac.

Rehab already had the faith to hide the people she did.

Paul says that Abraham was not justified by works.. James says he was.

Contradiction? No. James and Paul were talking about different kinds of faith.

Paul... saving faith. Nothing to do with works.

James ... what people do as acts of service showing the faith they already have. Responding to already have been given salvation.

The Bible doesn't contradict itself. Context shows different subjects.

Last thing..

The way if salvation had not changed from OT to NT. People were converted before the Holy Spirit became administrator of His churches. The disciples were most surely converted souls (aside from Judas)

What had changed is the OT system of service had failed. The offering of sacrifices had failed as a system.

Jesus didn't bring a new way of salvation but undid the chains put on people by the OT system of service.

They thought they were made righteous by their works, but it was never the case. Their pride in themselves was bought to nought.
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you did not answer why he said. “Can that faith save them?

It is a yes or no question james was asking. Either that faith can save them, or it can not..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#304
Dec 18, 2021
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#304
HeIsHere said:
I asked where does scripture speak about mental assent or mere belief?
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And I asked if you believe one can believe in Jesus (mental agreement, or mere belief) yet not have faith in them, are these people saved..

its a yes or no question..

I am interpreting the word belief, vs faith..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#305
Dec 18, 2021
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#305
HeIsHere said:
Let's just stick to hermeneutics, noy the modern day church. Where is the Gospel preached in the book of James?
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again, Can a person BELIEVE in jesus, yet have NO FAITH (dead faith) and be saved?
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#306
Dec 18, 2021
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#306
HeIsHere said:
What is the meaning of saved throughout the letter of James, is it spiritual salvation?

Saved can be spiritual, the soul or physical.

The context determines the meaning.
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So now your going to twist james words..

lol again.

can a person believe in Jesus yet not have faith in him and still be saved.

look at the audience.

In Romans, Why did paul say we are saved by faith alone, and no work.. who was his audience?

In james, appearing to contradict paul. He said if a perosn CLAIMS to have faith. But has no work. Can THAT FAITH save them.

Who was his audience.

I will give you a hint, Paul was speaking to one group of false teachers. And james was speaking to the opposite group..

what differed?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#307
Mar 1, 2022
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#307
HeIsHere said:
The person still has to be open to the move of God. We are not automatons.

Again if it were automatic James would not have had to write those letters.

God can chastise and some will harden themselves against the workings of God. we each have our own unique personality, and God deals with each person individually and circumstances vary and so I refuse to make blanket assertions that are not in scripture.
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Here's scripture...for it is God which worketh in you both to will and do of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.

God is at work in every Christian.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#308
Dec 18, 2021
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#308
Cameron143 said:
Here's scripture...for it is God which worketh in you both to will and do of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.

God is at work in every Christian.
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As I always say. If you claim you have faith in a person. Yet never do anything that persons asks. Or even try to live like that person you have so much faith in. Do you really have faith in that person?

My answer is no..
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
#309
Dec 18, 2021
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#309
Chester said:
"Faith alone" that saves?

Really? What about the grace of God? What about Jesus? Is not He the one who saves us?
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Ie, GRACE through faith.

Grace is what saved, But is is only through faith one would receive it. If you do not have faith in it. You will not truly recieve it..
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#311
May 21, 2022
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#311
Cameron143 said:
Here's scripture...for it is God which worketh in you both to will and do of His good pleasure...Philippians 2:13.

God is at work in every Christian.
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The Bible actually teaches that it is possible for one who is eternally saved by God’s grace to:

1) Commit idolatry and apostasy (1 Kgs. 11:1-10)
2) Believe only for a while (Luke 8:13)
3) Not continue in the Word of Christ (Jn. 8:31)
4) Not abide in Christ (John 15:1-8)
5) Become disqualified in the race of the Christian life (1 Cor. 9:24-27)
6) Resist God’s chastening and correcting to the point of physical death (1 Cor. 11:30-32)
7) Stray from the faith (1 Timothy 1:5-6)
8) Shipwreck faith (1 Timothy 1:18-20)
9) Fall away from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1-3)
10) Deny the faith (1 Timothy 5:8)
11) Cast off initial faith and follow Satan (1 Timothy 5:12-15)
12) Stray from the faith by loving money (1 Timothy 6:9-10)
13) Stray from the faith by professing false doctrine (1 Timothy 6:20-21)
14) Deny Christ and be faithless (2 Timothy 2:11-13)
15) Have faith overthrown (2 Timothy 2:14-18)
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#312
Everlasting-Grace said:
And I asked if you believe one can believe in Jesus (mental agreement, or mere belief) yet not have faith in them, are these people saved..

its a yes or no question..

I am interpreting the word belief, vs faith..
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Define your terms.

What is mental agreement?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

Well-known member
#313
May 21, 2022
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#313
Everlasting-Grace said:
So now your going to twist james words..

lol again.

can a person believe in Jesus yet not have faith in him and still be saved.

look at the audience.

In Romans, Why did paul say we are saved by faith alone, and no work.. who was his audience?

In james, appearing to contradict paul. He said if a perosn CLAIMS to have faith. But has no work. Can THAT FAITH save them.

Who was his audience.

I will give you a hint, Paul was speaking to one group of false teachers. And james was speaking to the opposite group..

what differed?
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What does saved mean here?

13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Matthew 24:13
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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#314
May 21, 2022
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#314
Everlasting-Grace said:
again, Can a person BELIEVE in jesus, yet have NO FAITH (dead faith) and be saved?
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NO faith is not "dead faith"

You do understand that in Greek one is the verb and the other the noun?

One is saved when he believes the promise of Christ to guarantee for him eternal life through faith in Him for it.
 
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Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
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Dec 18, 2021
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#317
E

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
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Dec 18, 2021
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#318
HeIsHere said:
NO faith is not "dead faith"

You do understand that in Greek one is the verb and the other the noun?

One is saved when he believes the promise of Christ to guarantee for him eternal life through faith in Him for it.
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Can one believe this, yet not TRUST it?

remember, Faith in the greek means one is assured of. Confident in. Trust in..
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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May 21, 2022
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#320
Everlasting-Grace said:
I agree that Jesus was a man, Who lived 2000 years ago. Died on a cross. And was risen..
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So mental assent then is not personal it is just facts.
This is not dead faith neither, it is a lack of knowledge, the full picture.
 
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