Do we need the "spiritual elite?"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
113
62
#24
My question would be: How do you know they're preaching the truth? And if you're driving down the road and bam, a revelation, how do you know if it's actually truth or just internal chatter from your own head?
You already know how. That's how you know the false preachers that you have pointed out. What they said did not comply with scripture.
As far as what we hear in our head, we can apply the same test. But over time, we should be learning what the voice of God sounds like.
 
R

RichMan

Guest
#28
After the Bible was completed and available for all, it was not necessary for God to send those who had received special knowledge to teach us.
Any believer with average intelligence can know all things if they put forth the effort and spend much time in prayer.
It will take some of us more time and effort than others, but all can learn.
With that said, there are those who have a greater ability to teach and lead others in the study of the Scriptures and we should all take advantage of their ability, but with much caution. It is our responsibility to prove their teaching by the Scripture.
No one should isolate themselves from others, but be careful who you listen to or read after.
When a person tells me he has been anointed by God with a greater understanding , I immediately walk away.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
#29
When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.
I seriously doubt that anyone, has a complete understanding of that revelation of Jesus Christ.

The reason why there are so many denominations in Christianity, so many different interpretations. Is simply because folk read the Bible themselves. That is a fact.

Almost every person in Christianity has been taught what is important in the scripture. People that even read the Bible, on a day to day basis, are rare people. So few of us would be able to understand the New Testament without guidance.

We must admit that most of our understanding of the scripture has been given to us by others. The way Christians read the scripture varies from church to church. Lots of Christians can see the different interpretations between say the heavy weight churches. Catholics and Protestants for example are vastly different in their interpretation. But there are many Protestant churches that are different to one another due to their interpretation. It's complex and usually historical, and it's taught.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,041
1,798
113
#30
If one is truly mature in Christ, he or she will be most interested in equipping the younger generation. They will not set them selves up as an elitist in a tower, unreachable.

We see this in the natural with parents. Parents who love their children invest in their children and are at all times accessible by their children. In my youth, my parents were not elitist, but they certainly were superior to me, and I had much to learn from them. Because of this, they made themselves available to me and loved me. This is a stark contrast to superiors who can only be reached by extreme measures or by appointment.

in scripture, certainly Jesus was superior to his disciples. Paul, also, understood that he was the one in charge among the Corinthians, for example. He was not equal to them as far as the grace was concerned. Even so, he understood that the grace given to him was for the benefit of those he cared for. That’s how a true leader lives his life: as a servant to the younger generation.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
#31
Train up a child in the way they should go..and when they are old they shall not depart.
But most children have been taught a way of reading the scripture, that understanding of the scripture. The problem is that the children are painted with the doctrine, their parents were taught.
For even Jesus grew in knowledge and wisdom studying the scriptures and doing what was required.
Jesus was alone in His understanding of the Old Testament.
James says to be ye doers and not hearers only, deceiving ones self.
Exactly, our works perfect our faith.

There is always a return on those works, spiritual feedback.
And the greatest of these gifts is love.
God is love.

The most powerful three words in all the scripture.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
113
62
#33
Is our prayer life our deepest failing as Christians?
Certainly our failure to spend time in God's presence. All of the spiritual disciplines are designed, first and foremost, to put us in the places where God has said He would meet with us. For many, Christianity has become about doing. From God's perspective, it is about becoming...becoming more like Christ. Since it is in His presence we are changed, we should pursue every opportunity and in every way to enter into the very real and true presence of God.
Practicing spiritual disciplines does not guarantee getting into the presence of God. We must still come humbly and contritely. We are most undeserving to be there.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
#34
Certainly our failure to spend time in God's presence. All of the spiritual disciplines are designed, first and foremost, to put us in the places where God has said He would meet with us. For many, Christianity has become about doing. From God's perspective, it is about becoming...becoming more like Christ. Since it is in His presence we are changed, we should pursue every opportunity and in every way to enter into the very real and true presence of God.
Practicing spiritual disciplines does not guarantee getting into the presence of God. We must still come humbly and contritely. We are most undeserving to be there.
Good post.

Jesus prayed frequently but foremost, Jesus spent everyday with the spiritual mindset.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit, do not utterly reject prophecies, but examine everything; hold firmly to that which is good, abstain from every form of evil.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
113
62
#35
Good post.

Jesus prayed frequently but foremost, Jesus spent everyday with the spiritual mindset.

1 Thessalonians 5:16-22
Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus. Do not quench the Spirit, do not utterly reject prophecies, but examine everything; hold firmly to that which is good, abstain from every form of evil.
John 14 speaks of an abiding with Jesus and the Father. He works this out more fully in John 15.
I believe this ongoing interaction with God is the essence of eternal life spoken of in John 17:3.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
#36
There aren't supposed to be spiritual elites; but to say there aren't people who think they're elite simply isn't true.
There are Christians out there who live their entire lives utterly focused on Jesus Christ. I have been fortunate or blessed to have met some of them. You know them when you meet them, they are not common.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
3,388
1,006
113
#37
John 14 speaks of an abiding with Jesus and the Father. He works this out more fully in John 15.
I believe this ongoing interaction with God is the essence of eternal life spoken of in John 17:3.
That's where I would place my bet. That prayer, spiritual mindset, is the fuel of the Christian life. The scripture lifts you into prayer and prayer is the direct channel to our Lord.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,074
6,880
113
62
#38
That's where I would place my bet. That prayer, spiritual mindset, is the fuel of the Christian life. The scripture lifts you into prayer and prayer is the direct channel to our Lord.
The prayer and mindset are the means. Christ remains the fuel.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#39
But most children have been taught a way of reading the scripture, that understanding of the scripture. The problem is that the children are painted with the doctrine, their parents were taught.Jesus was alone in His understanding of the Old Testament.
Exactly, our works perfect our faith.

There is always a return on those works, spiritual feedback.God is love.

The most powerful three words in all the scripture.
But most children have been taught a way of reading the scripture, that understanding of the scripture. The problem is that the children are painted with the doctrine, their parents were taught.Jesus was alone in His understanding of the Old Testament.
Exactly, our works perfect our faith.

There is always a return on those works, spiritual feedback.God is love.

The most powerful three words in all the scripture.
Luke 2:47-52 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#40
When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.
If we look at the church as a whole, with its many denominations and factions, and if any single one of them was in a position to unify the body, there’s probably a less than 1% chance it’d be a true reflection of the church Christ made.

So while central leadership can be extremely unifying, it can also be extremely misleading. That kind of power and authority doesn’t normally fall into the hands of people who could wield it humbly and faithfully so it’s likely the entire church would become violent like the Catholic Church was.