Do we need the "spiritual elite?"

[ResidentAlien]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.

 

[notonmywatch]

1 Corinthians 2

1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. 2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. 3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. 4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: 5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

[SomeDisciple]

It's complicated. God gives the increase when it comes to spiritual knowledge and wisdom. It's all revelation. You can read a scripture like 1000 times, pull up the lexicon/concordance blah, blah, blah, and still not get it until like a week later when you're driving down the road singing some random worship song, or praying or whatever. Not sure about "spiritual elites"... if someone consistently preaches truth, they're worth latching onto... but if it someone that's big-claims and big-talk and no walk, then, well you probably don't need them, no matter how much they claim to be "anointed".

 

[studentoftheword]

When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight,

I say ====
It is God who says that His Word which is Spiritual can only be understood by Spiritual means -----so it is not people saying it it is actually God saying it -----and the people repeating what God says ------

This Scripture makes extremely good sense ----Only God knows the mind of God and what His Spiritual message is ------



QUOTE="ResidentAlien, post: 5005206, member: 306907"]Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?[/QUOTE]

I say ------It is not a hopeless mystery ---God wants His Children to understand His Word ----but there is protocol to have that understanding -----The Bible is really not a Mystery at all ---the message is very straight forward and with the right lens ---the indwelling of the Holy Spirit guiding the Spiritual person they begins to understand the Spiritual message =====

Jesus taught in Parables ---why -----He tells us why -------pretty straight forward -----

He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context.

I say ----
The Holy Spirit gives the Spiritual person the Spiritual understanding which goes beyond Human understanding according to what they can Handle -----The Holy Spirit knows where their Faith walk with Christ lies and will only give that person the Spiritual understanding that they need as to where they are in their walk -

Some people need to be fed Milk for many years ---this is the Babe in Christ ---who still thinks like the world --- Carnal Mind ----

Some people want to mature in their Faith and get to the solid food faster than others ----and so their Spiritual understanding is more advanced by and through the guidance of the Holy Spirit ---

The More your in the Word the more Knowledge and Understanding is revealed to you ----



There are 7 Spiritual Gifts of the Holy Spirit ------that He departs upon us -----



So you need the Holy Spirit who is the Spiritual Elite

 

[Dino246]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.

You make a good point, and completely undermine it with your closing sentence, which introduces speculative condemnation.

If you have evidence showing that particular "elites" have ulterior motives, then by all means share it, but don't smear every scholar with that brush.

 

[Nehemiah6]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying?

There have been spiritual elite almost since creation. The scribes, Pharisees, and lawyers were such men who looked down on the "unlearned". The priests of all pagan religions, the Masons, the Gnostics, the Rosicrucians, etc have all claimed (and continue to do so) that they are privy to some esoteric knowledge (Gnosis) beyond the ken of ordinary mortals. Then we have the Catholic hierarchy claiming that only they can properly interpret Scripture. The chief priest of Roman paganism was called "Pontifex Maximus" and all the popes have been using that title for centuries.

But God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to all those who believe on Christ, and the Holy Spirit enlightens those who make a serious effort to learn what God has to say.

That is not to say that there are depths in Scripture which we may never fathom. For example, we have many lists of names in the OT (along with genealogies). That God would devote so much space to these names must have some deeper meaning. Of course everyone of those names is written in the Book of Life. But perhaps God is saying that He recognizes individuals and knows exactly what they have contributed, and that He is no respecter of persons (by only focusing on the leaders or the elite).

 

[Gideon300]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.

There are gifts to the church:

1 Corinthians 12:
27Now you are the body of Christ, and each of you is a member of it. 28And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues. 29Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles?…

Ephesians 4:
11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for works of ministry and to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.…

Some would say that such gifts are no longer required as we have the Bible. Since the church has yet to "mature to the full measure of Christ", I disagree.

Yes, there is a great deal that is false, as Paul also warned us. We need discernment. If we rely on our own understanding, we will likely be deceived. People can read a Bible verse, interpret as they think is right, and come up with a false doctrine. Flat Earthers do exactly this. UR people likewise. Lord Jesus gives us His Holy Spirit to lead us into Truth. Whatever the source, Bible, preaching, teaching or prophecy, we need to be shown by the Spirit if is of God or not.

Some Christians have permitted God to change them to a greater degree than others. Some believers are unchanged after decades, others shine with Jesus from early on. There is such a thing as placement in God's kingdom. Some could be called "elite" because they are the humble, loving, patient, kind and who know Jesus, not just know about Him. I've not met an "elite" who thought that they were anything special in any way.

 

[ResidentAlien]

It's complicated. God gives the increase when it comes to spiritual knowledge and wisdom. It's all revelation. You can read a scripture like 1000 times, pull up the lexicon/concordance blah, blah, blah, and still not get it until like a week later when you're driving down the road singing some random worship song, or praying or whatever. Not sure about "spiritual elites"... if someone consistently preaches truth, they're worth latching onto... but if it someone that's big-claims and big-talk and no walk, then, well you probably don't need them, no matter how much they claim to be "anointed".

My question would be: How do you know they're preaching the truth? And if you're driving down the road and bam, a revelation, how do you know if it's actually truth or just internal chatter from your own head?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Whatever the source, Bible, preaching, teaching or prophecy, we need to be shown by the Spirit if is of God or not.

We're told to test all things, whether preaching, teaching or prophecy. And how do we test things? Something may sound good and even seem to be a revelation from God. But are we told to trust our instincts or something else?

Acts 18:28 " . . . for he [Apollos] vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ."

Acts 17:11 "These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so."

I agree we all need help at times understanding the Bible; but we've been sold a bill of goods that says only certain people who have a special gift or training are qualified to explain the Bible. What we need to be doing instead of making people dependent on the spiritual elite is to teach them how to read and understand the Bible properly so they can learn for themselves. Seems to me this is what someone with a true gift for teaching would do.

 

[studentoftheword]

My question would be: How do you know they're preaching the truth? And if you're driving down the road and bam, a revelation, how do you know if it's actually truth or just internal chatter from your own head?

You have to know the Scriptures and anything that doesn't line up with the Scriptures ---is False Doctrine -------

 

[shittim]

Jesus died to send Holy Spirit to guide in ALL truth, your rejection of Holy Spirit is why you miss the mark and made this thread.
Holy Spirit confirms His truth, thus you are left with leaning on your own understanding until such time as you humble yourself and invite His guidance and wisdom which He gives freely.
best wishes friend.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.

Zeph 3, might reveal your answer.


God blinded most of spiritual Israel for their disobedience in serving idols etc. They are known as the lost sheep of the household of Israel. He left in the midst of them an afflicted, and poor people that shall trust in the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid

Spiritual Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Jer 50:6 - My people hath been lost sheep, their shepherds (false teachers) have caused them to go astray.

Matt 15:24 - I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the household of Israel.

The remnant is instructed to teach and preach to the lost sheep of the household of Israel, praying that they might repent.

Rom 10:1-3, also harmonizes with this.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Zeph 3, might reveal your answer.


God blinded most of spiritual Israel for their disobedience in serving idols etc. They are known as the lost sheep of the household of Israel. He left in the midst of them an afflicted, and poor people that shall trust in the Lord. The remnant of Israel shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth; for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid

Spiritual Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.

Jer 50:6 - My people hath been lost sheep, their shepherds (false teachers) have caused them to go astray.

Matt 15:24 - I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the household of Israel.

The remnant is instructed to teach and preach to the lost sheep of the household of Israel, praying that they might repent.

Rom 10:1-3, also harmonizes with this.

English please.

 

[SomeDisciple]

My question would be: How do you know they're preaching the truth? And if you're driving down the road and bam, a revelation, how do you know if it's actually truth or just internal chatter from your own head?

It's like he said- his sheep know his voice. If we have any kind of prayer life and humility we can discern enough biblical truth as to not be fooled by the likes of Creflo Dollar, or Calvinists. Some things you know intuitively are wrong way before you can prove it with scripture.
So, how do you know it's not 'internal chatter'? I guess I could even take it further and say how do you know it's not demons, or subliminal messaging from ultra-low frequencies, or nanomachines from the vaccine, or MK Ultra? Well, you don't empirically "know", but understand by faith, I guess.

 

[shittim]

He really will confirm His truth to His Own, and they know His voice.

 

[Aaron56]

The idea that we can mature in Christ independently from the Body is popular among church-goers who want no accountability and have no understanding of the necessity of the Body for the members.

Faith comes by hearing, not by reading. For faith to be heard, one must be sent to preach the word of God.

"How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
Who bring glad tidings of good things!”
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Paul writes this regarding elders:

"Elders who lead effectively are worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching. For the Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain,” and, “The worker is worthy of his wages.”"

It's seems clear that the honor given them is of monetary value, as well.

This is also about elders, from Peter:

"Likewise you younger people, submit yourselves to your elders."

These are not simply older believers. These are those who have obtained a good testimony by following the Lord. In age, an elder may be younger in the flesh but more wise according to the Lord. This was why Paul encouraged Timothy to have no one "despise his youth".

God will not have us submit to anyone who does not have proper authority in the Lord.

An elder is not necessarily a student of Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek or English; so that he can accurately parse out the truth of the scripture. An elder, or one who is wise in the Lord, is a student of the Lord, having learned obedience by the things he has suffered. Having been sent by the Lord to carry God's grace, the proof of Paul's position in the Lord was those who came to the Lord.

This is what Paul meant when he wrote: "If I am not an apostle to others, yet doubtless I am to you. For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord."

To Paul, the seal of his apostleship was not miracles, or having seen the Lord, etc. It was the saints before him that turned to the Lord.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

When it comes to Bible interpretation, do we need the spiritual elite to explain its hidden meaning or can we each learn objectively by reading and studying? When I say "hidden meaning" I'm referring to those who insist the Bible can only be completely understood by those with special spiritual insight, whose responsibility it is to enlighten the rest of us.

If that's the case, what does this do for objective learning? If the revelation of Jesus Christ is actually a hidden and coded mystery, how can it be called a revelation? Why has the Lord allowed so many Bibles to be put into the hands of so many if His design was for only an elite few to interpret it for the rest of us? Why should we even bother if it's a hopeless mystery?

The Spirit interprets God's word for us but He does so according to human understanding and normal rules of speech: syntax, grammar and context. We all need a hand at times with understanding His word and this is when a good teacher might come in handy; but we shouldn't rely on the spiritual elite. Too often they have ulterior motives.

I think its important for us to pray and ask God to help us understand , and to make a little time to consider his word ourselves

then later when we hear a good message from a spiritual leader we’re going to recognize it better

and when we hear someone telling lies we’re going to recognize it better

also I think it’s important fornus to always check the context of verses people quote from a pew and then explain to us

sometimes they explain things that aren’t there and shouldn’t be

another times they help us see wha e really there and we begin to realize there is no special ability to understand Gods word needed but to simply hear and accept what Jesus the lord said believe it and then follow after those things we learn

as disciples of Jesus we all learn at our own pace and that also his part of not being over loaded with understanding we can’t bear the weight of yet

prayer and even just a little study but alot of consideration and more prayer changes everything. Then the thing is we can start better recognizing those real spiritual leaders or could become one our own self if that’s Gods will

 

[Aaron56]

Knowing who to look to in the Lord establishes one in the house of God--those with an orphan outlook see this as elitist precisely because it highlights the lack in their own lives; we have been accustomed to mass altar calls to receive the gift of grace whereby we preserve our anonymity. No account of our behavior is required. This is different than the process to become mature, to grow up in all things in Him; the former is of course free and is something for children; the latter costs us all; the former a mass invitation, the latter a narrowing pursuit that reveals one's unique calling in God.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The mystery has been revealed by Christ's apostles and prophets. They finished Christ's mission. There is no longer any need for a spiritual elite to reveal the mystery, it's already been revealed, all we have to do is read it and study it.

"I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints." Colossians 1:24-26

 

[pottersclay]

Train up a child in the way they should go..and when they are old they shall not depart.

This is whats missing in the world today. Without this being done we become victims of our younger generations.
I always was opposed to the word interpet. I Favored the word translate. I believe God said what he meant and meant what he said.
For even Jesus grew in knowledge and wisdom studying the scriptures and doing what was required.
James says to be ye doers and not hearers only, deceiving ones self.

The spiritual elites as you call them are called by GOD to keep us on the path of truth. With sound doctrine and foundational truth.
The church represents the body of christ, as we all know. When the body is in need... we have arms , legs ,
Hands, feet, ect to aid the need. But its all the same body it is controlled by the brain. Which is the head which is CHRIST himself.
There are no elites in the service of God. For who is greater than his master?
All spiritual gifts are from the same spirit and given to those whom GOD has chosen. And the greatest of these gifts is love.