Ukraine and Russia: Truth and Propaganda

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Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
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#81
What about tanks in the Ukraine?

It means that Russia will be sent back to pre-2014 borders as should happen.
The Bible says that Gog and Magog will have hooks put in them and they will be dragged down to fight Israel in Jerusalem. That is what we are seeing, this war is proceeding as Russia is slowly being dragged into it.

A year ago all we had to do is guarantee that Ukraine would not be part of NATO. Today it is a full blown war. Imagine you are fighting a poisonous snake, do you think the snake will let you kill it without trying to bite you? Russia is not going to retreat, they are not going to surrender, not without using their nukes first.
Giving into blackmail is stupid. Putin promised that he was not going to invade Ukraine, remember? How do you trust a liar like that? Answer, you don't.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
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#82
It means that Russia will be sent back to pre-2014 borders as should happen.

Giving into blackmail is stupid. Putin promised that he was not going to invade Ukraine, remember? How do you trust a liar like that? Answer, you don't.
We promised that we would never make Ukraine part of NATO. Both sides are liars and God will judge. Our position is not of being a judge but of someone who confesses their own sins, repents, turns to the Lord and witnesses concerning the Lord's resurrection.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
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#85

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
113
#86
We have already seen the first casualty in WWIII -- the truth
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#91
Giving into blackmail is stupid. Putin promised that he was not going to invade Ukraine, remember? How do you trust a liar like that? Answer, you don't.
The liars were the Biden administration and NATO. They have been itching for a proxy war with Russia, and did everything in their power to make it happen. They literally SABOTAGED every attempt for a negotiated settlement. And now we know that it was America which sabotaged the Nord Stream pipeline. Obama made sure that the duly elected government of Ukraine was overthrown illegally, then he made sure no one would stop Russia from grabbing Crimea. Now Biden is making sure WWIII will become a reality, since he wants everyone to focus on Eastern Europe, not on the internal destruction of America. Why are billions of dollars being sent to Ukraine? What is the real agenda? Why are Western nations draining their military capability when they know that Ukraine will never win? Why is Zelensky a hero when he is really a tyrant? What is the NAZI involvement in all of this?
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,752
8,262
113
#93
It means that Russia will be sent back to pre-2014 borders as should happen.

Giving into blackmail is stupid. Putin promised that he was not going to invade Ukraine, remember? How do you trust a liar like that? Answer, you don't.
There is one thing Putin is not: stupid.
From what I can see, he possesses significantly more raw intelligence that his detractors and opponents. Most of whom are pathetic puppets to begin with.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
6,610
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#94
There is one thing Putin is not: stupid.
From what I can see, he possesses significantly more raw intelligence that his detractors and opponents. Most of whom are pathetic puppets to begin with.
I think the evidence is persuasive that NATO and the US were encroaching on Ukraine and Russia was right to feel intimidated. Economically they are quite small when compared with the EU plus the US. The US had prepositioned equipment in the vicinity and they were encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. It isn't hard to empathize with Russia if you are familiar with what happened in Ukraine during WWII and Stalin.

I believe the US provoked this war and had plenty of opportunity to walk it back but instead they blew up the Nordstream pipeline. They forbid the use of fertilizer as a way to hurt Russia economically. Also the way Zelensky treats the US after we have already pumped $100 billion into this effort tells me they are a proxy for the US.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,752
8,262
113
#95
I think the evidence is persuasive that NATO and the US were encroaching on Ukraine and Russia was right to feel intimidated. Economically they are quite small when compared with the EU plus the US. The US had prepositioned equipment in the vicinity and they were encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. It isn't hard to empathize with Russia if you are familiar with what happened in Ukraine during WWII and Stalin.

I believe the US provoked this war and had plenty of opportunity to walk it back but instead they blew up the Nordstream pipeline. They forbid the use of fertilizer as a way to hurt Russia economically. Also the way Zelensky treats the US after we have already pumped $100 billion into this effort tells me they are a proxy for the US.
And never forget: 10% for the Big Guy.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,123
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#96
There is one thing Putin is not: stupid.
From what I can see, he possesses significantly more raw intelligence that his detractors and opponents. Most of whom are pathetic puppets to begin with.
Intelligence is not necessarily wisdom. His ego is vastly greater than his intelligence. His 3 day war has become a year long bloodbath, a catastrophe of his own making entirely. He lies continually and blatantly, to his own people as well as everyone else. He is a despot with a 19th century mentality and living in a 21st century world. He did not have to embark on this misadventure. This is the man who publicly said that Ukraine was a sovereign country that was free to join NATO if it wished. He has gone back on every agreement that he ever made with any country. Hitler was not stupid either. His plans were completely undone. The same fate awaits Putin.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,123
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#97
I think the evidence is persuasive that NATO and the US were encroaching on Ukraine and Russia was right to feel intimidated. Economically they are quite small when compared with the EU plus the US. The US had prepositioned equipment in the vicinity and they were encouraging Ukraine to join NATO. It isn't hard to empathize with Russia if you are familiar with what happened in Ukraine during WWII and Stalin.

I believe the US provoked this war and had plenty of opportunity to walk it back but instead they blew up the Nordstream pipeline. They forbid the use of fertilizer as a way to hurt Russia economically. Also the way Zelensky treats the US after we have already pumped $100 billion into this effort tells me they are a proxy for the US.
NATO was created to avoid conflict with Russia. Have a look at some facts for a change. Putin stated publicly that he had no objection to Ukraine joining NATO.

Russia provoked a war between Abkhazian separatists and the government of Georgia. Georgia lost territory as a result. Russia attacked Chechnya and got whipped. Russia attacked Chechnya again. Georgia was invaded once more and so was Syria. And, of course Ukraine. How many times has Russia been invaded since WW2. None. Not once. This anti Ukraine, pro Russia propaganda is just that. How long ago was Nordstream blown up? September last year. How long after the illegal invasion of Ukraine was that? Do the maths.

I'm 71. I don't know much about Ukraine. I'm old enough to know plenty about Russia and the former USSR. When the Berlin wall fell and the USSR collapsed, a prophet warned that there would be a limited time before Russia turned back to its old imperialistic ways. That prophet has proven to be correct.

The USSR collapsed because it ran out of money to fund its military. Former USSR countries were not exactly rushing to rejoin like a Russian version of the EU. Russia became wealthy (or at least the oligarchy) because of oil and gas. As the money flowed in, Russia's ambitions have grown once more. This whole business should have been stopped in 2014. European weakness allowed Russian control of land that does not belong to them. If Russia is not stopped now, they will stop at nothing in order to regain the former Russian empire. If a pseudo peace is negotiated, Russia will simply rearm and have another crack at empire building. This is their history for the last 100 years or so. Russia needs to be kicked out of Ukraine and in a way that prevents them from having another go in a few years.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,316
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#98
Have a look at some facts for a change..
The fact is that the US and EU are huge GDP's relative to Russia. Therefore we have many other levers we can push besides war.

The fact is that Biden's policy has caused Russia and China to form an alliance. That doesn't make us safer, it makes war much more likely.

The fact is that China is a much bigger threat to US national security and US national interests than Ukraine is.

The fact is by blowing up Nordstream 2 many in the EU are souring towards to the US.

The fact is the US had illegal bioweapons labs in Ukraine, our own officials have admitted that. Regardless of Russia being a liar this proves the US is a liar at a time when the whole world has suffered from a bioweapon.

The fact is the way Biden is handling this is causing us to all sleepwalk towards WWIII, a nuclear confrontation, that two years ago would have been considered absurd.

The fact is that if you were to let the American people vote the majority would be against going to war with Russia, so the claim that this is a war for Democracy is absurd.

The fact is that even questioning Biden's policy or asking for a justification for going to war with Russia results in being accused of being "pro Russia" and "pro Putin". That is not an argument that is slander. Why is the media so afraid to discuss this?

The fact is that Ukraine is and should be a European issue and they should take the lead. The US should not be doing anything more than giving our fair share to NATO.

The fact is that Biden's exit from Afghanistan was a catastrophe, and now there are allegations that he did that as a quid pro quo to China because they helped him get elected president.

The fact is that Joe Biden is "the big guy" who boasts of shutting down investigations into corruption in Ukraine because it might have threatened his son who was making close to $1 million a year working on a board of directors for a Ukrainian energy company.

The fact is that Hunter Biden's laptop has evidence that Joe Biden has been on the take from Oligarchs in Ukraine.

The fact is Joe Biden is a liar.

Those are facts. Anyone who refuses to look into those facts while beating the drum to go to war with Russia, is in my mind, not to be trusted.

Finally, let's look at the truth for a change. What we are looking at here in Ukraine was prophesied in the Bible and is leading to Ezekiel 38 and 39 war. As evil as Putin is, Joe Biden and Zelensky are every bit just as evil. Fighting fire with fire is something that only a pro should do. Jesus is the pro and He can do this, but everyone else who tries is going to get burned.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,752
8,262
113
#99
The fact is that the US and EU are huge GDP's relative to Russia. Therefore we have many other levers we can push besides war.

The fact is that Biden's policy has caused Russia and China to form an alliance. That doesn't make us safer, it makes war much more likely.

The fact is that China is a much bigger threat to US national security and US national interests than Ukraine is.

The fact is by blowing up Nordstream 2 many in the EU are souring towards to the US.

The fact is the US had illegal bioweapons labs in Ukraine, our own officials have admitted that. Regardless of Russia being a liar this proves the US is a liar at a time when the whole world has suffered from a bioweapon.

The fact is the way Biden is handling this is causing us to all sleepwalk towards WWIII, a nuclear confrontation, that two years ago would have been considered absurd.

The fact is that if you were to let the American people vote the majority would be against going to war with Russia, so the claim that this is a war for Democracy is absurd.

The fact is that even questioning Biden's policy or asking for a justification for going to war with Russia results in being accused of being "pro Russia" and "pro Putin". That is not an argument that is slander. Why is the media so afraid to discuss this?

The fact is that Ukraine is and should be a European issue and they should take the lead. The US should not be doing anything more than giving our fair share to NATO.

The fact is that Biden's exit from Afghanistan was a catastrophe, and now there are allegations that he did that as a quid pro quo to China because they helped him get elected president.

The fact is that Joe Biden is "the big guy" who boasts of shutting down investigations into corruption in Ukraine because it might have threatened his son who was making close to $1 million a year working on a board of directors for a Ukrainian energy company.

The fact is that Hunter Biden's laptop has evidence that Joe Biden has been on the take from Oligarchs in Ukraine.

The fact is Joe Biden is a liar.

Those are facts. Anyone who refuses to look into those facts while beating the drum to go to war with Russia, is in my mind, not to be trusted.

Finally, let's look at the truth for a change. What we are looking at here in Ukraine was prophesied in the Bible and is leading to Ezekiel 38 and 39 war. As evil as Putin is, Joe Biden and Zelensky are every bit just as evil. Fighting fire with fire is something that only a pro should do. Jesus is the pro and He can do this, but everyone else who tries is going to get burned.
As evil as Putin is, Joe Biden and Zelensky are every bit just as evil.

Yep. The foolish think this is a conflict between the good guys and the bad guys. When it is between the really bad guys and the worse bad guys.

Economies are in the tank and Central Banks/governments are insolvent, and the elites want a war to flush out the system IMO.
Among many other very selfish draconian reasons.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,296
3,123
113
The fact is that the US and EU are huge GDP's relative to Russia. Therefore we have many other levers we can push besides war.

The fact is that Biden's policy has caused Russia and China to form an alliance. That doesn't make us safer, it makes war much more likely.

The fact is that China is a much bigger threat to US national security and US national interests than Ukraine is.

The fact is by blowing up Nordstream 2 many in the EU are souring towards to the US.

The fact is the US had illegal bioweapons labs in Ukraine, our own officials have admitted that. Regardless of Russia being a liar this proves the US is a liar at a time when the whole world has suffered from a bioweapon.

The fact is the way Biden is handling this is causing us to all sleepwalk towards WWIII, a nuclear confrontation, that two years ago would have been considered absurd.

The fact is that if you were to let the American people vote the majority would be against going to war with Russia, so the claim that this is a war for Democracy is absurd.

The fact is that even questioning Biden's policy or asking for a justification for going to war with Russia results in being accused of being "pro Russia" and "pro Putin". That is not an argument that is slander. Why is the media so afraid to discuss this?

The fact is that Ukraine is and should be a European issue and they should take the lead. The US should not be doing anything more than giving our fair share to NATO.

The fact is that Biden's exit from Afghanistan was a catastrophe, and now there are allegations that he did that as a quid pro quo to China because they helped him get elected president.

The fact is that Joe Biden is "the big guy" who boasts of shutting down investigations into corruption in Ukraine because it might have threatened his son who was making close to $1 million a year working on a board of directors for a Ukrainian energy company.

The fact is that Hunter Biden's laptop has evidence that Joe Biden has been on the take from Oligarchs in Ukraine.

The fact is Joe Biden is a liar.

Those are facts. Anyone who refuses to look into those facts while beating the drum to go to war with Russia, is in my mind, not to be trusted.

Finally, let's look at the truth for a change. What we are looking at here in Ukraine was prophesied in the Bible and is leading to Ezekiel 38 and 39 war. As evil as Putin is, Joe Biden and Zelensky are every bit just as evil. Fighting fire with fire is something that only a pro should do. Jesus is the pro and He can do this, but everyone else who tries is going to get burned.
The FACT is that Putin started the war. No one put a gun to his head and made him do it. Europe was dependent on Russian oil and gas and had no motivation to trouble Russia. No one went to war with Russia. I don't know how much clearer that can be. Russia went to war with Ukraine.

America has a history of botched military adventures. Afghanistan is just one more catastrophe. It's not the sole domain of Democrats either. Iraq was on a Republican watch and Libya was Obama's disaster. Biden's fiasco was just one of a long line going back to Vietnam. I'm old enough to know these things. I was in the military during the Vietnam war.