Do you observe the Sabbath?

[TMS]

Never a conditional statement, 'if', that is the gospel and it was always by grace!

I agree that it is completely grace through faith that = salvation.

Knowing it is 100% grace why are some saved and some not saved?

IF grace was given to all. All would be saved.
So the gift of grace must not be given to all.

Jesus made provision for everyone, Jesus paid for every sinner so all could be saved but not everyone will be saved.

Jesus wants all to be saved and any person in their right mind would want to be saved. But only a few are....

Mat 7:14-16
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

So is it just grace?

Yes and no...

Yes because grace is the way we are saved 100%. But more then this. Faith is required, and faith is dead without works.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

 

[Moses_Young]

Circumcision makes sense from a health and sanitation standpoint. Circumcision of the heart brings it to a whole nother level...

Medicine finally catches up to the bible on the physical side, but hasn't even scratched the surface on the spiritual side, and God already said this (via Moses) thousands of years ago.

Deuteronomy 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

 

[Moses_Young]

I agree that it is completely grace through faith that = salvation.

Knowing it is 100% grace why are some saved and some not saved?

IF grace was given to all. All would be saved.
So the gift of grace must not be given to all.

Jesus made provision for everyone, Jesus paid for every sinner so all could be saved but not everyone will be saved.

Jesus wants all to be saved and any person in their right mind would want to be saved. But only a few are....

Mat 7:14-16
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

So is it just grace?

Yes and no...

Yes because grace is the way we are saved 100%. But more then this. Faith is required, and faith is dead without works.

Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Faith is receiving this free gift from God. Trying to earn it in any ways invalidates the gift, and therefore invalidates the salvation.

Matthew 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

 

[TMS]

You must maintain that separation between God's divine work, your salvation, and your miniscule attempt at your own works.

It is utter blasphemy to mention your works in the same breath as Christ's works!

I agree that we believe by faith in Jesus and as a result recieve the Spirit that produces the fruits of the Spirit in us.
All good works come from Jesus so all glory is His.

God wants to work with us.
We need to do our part, sure Gods part is perfect and great but we have a part to play.
Surrender, and cooperate with God. Be born again, we can't do anything without God's help but with God we can do all things.
It is a team effort.. we do what we can in our sphere and God does His part in His sphere.

God asked the blind man to wash in the pool of Siloam.
Jesus could have healed him then and there. But not He asked the blind man to do something.

2Ki 5:9-10
So Naaman came with his horses and with his chariot, and stood at the door of the house of Elisha. 10 And Elisha sent a messenger unto him, saying, Go and wash in Jordan seven times, and thy flesh shall come again to thee, and thou shalt be clean.

Again God could have healed naaman instantly but asked him to make an effort and tested his faith...
The works showed his faith.

 

[TMS]

This should put a stop to your attempt to undermine the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, since otherwise grace is no longer grace.

I 100% agree with that verse and don't teach anything different.

You are not understanding what I'm saying.
It might mean looking at thing from a different way.

I have always said that we can not stand justified and saved unless we are fully covered (completely justified) by the righteousness of Jesus. And that gift is given to those that have faith.

 

[Inquisitor]

I 100% agree with that verse and don't teach anything different.

You are not understanding what I'm saying.
It might mean looking at thing from a different way.

I have always said that we can not stand justified and saved unless we are fully covered (completely justified) by the righteousness of Jesus. And that gift is given to those that have faith.

Are you saying that salvation is not a gift given to us?

You keep trying to stick a tag on that gift of salvation.

To turn it into faith plus works (sabbath) = salvation.

Salvation cannot be a gift if you add the tag, we contribute to our salvation.

"We need to do our part, sure Gods part is perfect and great but we have a part to play."

That's the tag you added.

Salvation is by grace through faith and TMS had no part to play in that salvation.

Why do you have so much trouble accepting that you were never responsible for that gift?

 

[TMS]

Are you saying that salvation is not a gift given to us?

Salvation is a gift.

 

[TMS]

That's the tag you added.

Salvation is by grace through faith and TMS had no part to play in that salvation.

Why do you have so much trouble accepting that you were never responsible for that gift?

I've done nothing good.
All my works are as filthy rags. I can do nothing without Christ.

I believe faith and works can not be seperated.

I know that when the saved are in heaven they will not boast, or claim any glory in the salvation they were given.
With a connection to Jesus through faith we will have works.

Jesus said that the branch that is fruitless will be cut off and burnt..
Joh 15:1-2
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Joh 15:5-6 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

If your connected to Jesus, you will bring forth much fruit. If you don't beareth fruit your cut off.

Read the verses above.

Fruits are works..

 

[TMS]

Salvation cannot be a gift if you add the tag, we contribute to our salvation.

We do nothing. It is 100% Jesus's righteousness that is given to us.

It isn't given to all. Not everyone is saved.

If it is believing in Jesus and the gospel or believing in Jesus, and surrendering your heart completely. Both require us to do SOMETHING. Accepting the gift is doing something.

 

[TMS]

Faith is receiving this free gift from God. Trying to earn it in any ways invalidates the gift, and therefore invalidates the salvation.

Trying to earn it makes it not a gift. But a wage.

Salvation can't be earnt, or gained by works we do.

It comes down to the motive.
If I'm doing works to gain salvation I'm a fool.
If I'm doing works because i love my saviour and love to bear His good fruit, I'm doing it out of thankfulness and love.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Just because someone dose good works dose not mean they are trying to earn salvation.

Can i remember the sabbath to keep it holy because Jesus has saved me, Because i love my Lord?

 

[mailmandan]

You said ‘True faith results in producing works (James 2:14-18) and faith works by love. (Galatians 5:6)’

We’ll here is a look at Abrahams faith as he ‘loved‘ God long before Mount Sinai.

Genesis 26:5 this is God sharing with Issac concerning Abraham.

5. because Abraham obeyed Me and fulfilled his duty to Me, and kept My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

Yet Abraham was still accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works. (Romans 4:2-3)

 

[mailmandan]

Can i remember the sabbath to keep it holy because Jesus has saved me, Because i love my Lord?

Why don't you explain to us exactly how you keep the sabbath day holy and compare that with scripture on how the Israelites kept the sabbath day holy in the Old Testament.

 

[TMS]

Salvation cannot be a gift if you add the tag, we contribute to our salvation.

"We need to do our part, sure Gods part is perfect and great but we have a part to play."

I'll try and explain it again...

The gift of salvation.....
We do nothing to earn and gain the righteousness that Christ freely gives to us. The righteousness of Christ is a result of a perfectly sinless life. All of us have sinned so it is impossible to attain righteousness by our own efforts. We need the gift that Jesus alone can give us.

Salvation is 100% gift from Jesus that we can not improve or add to. We can't earn it or buy it with anything in this world.

Our part.....
We do nothing to earn salvation. It is a gift.
But the gift is not given to all. We need to have faith.
And true faith has fruits.
Fruits of repentance and conversion.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

It is Christ that earns the gift and Christ gives the gift to the faithful.
Being faithful is also a gift from Christ...

 

[TMS]

Yet Abraham was still accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works. (Romans 4:2-3)

Heb 11.....
By faith.... they did works.
By faith .... the did works....
Verse after verse that shows that through faith they did good works.
Faith and works can't be seperated.

 

[mailmandan]

Heb 11.....
By faith.... they did works.
By faith .... the did works....
Verse after verse that shows that through faith they did good works.
Faith and works can't be seperated.

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the very essence of faith itself, but the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand. We are saved by faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit.

 

[Moses_Young]

Trying to earn it makes it not a gift. But a wage.

Salvation can't be earnt, or gained by works we do.

It comes down to the motive.
If I'm doing works to gain salvation I'm a fool.
If I'm doing works because i love my saviour and love to bear His good fruit, I'm doing it out of thankfulness and love.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Just because someone dose good works dose not mean they are trying to earn salvation.

Can i remember the sabbath to keep it holy because Jesus has saved me, Because i love my Lord?

Sure. But can others likewise esteem every day alike? Isn't that the essence of Romans 14:1-7?

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

 

[Inquisitor]

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the very essence of faith itself, but the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand. We are saved by faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit.

Folk across the Christian spectrum, do not understand that by grace, through the instrument of faith, that we are saved. They cannot comprehend fully, that salvation is a free gift from God.

They constantly weave the belief in Jesus and works together, in order to achieve salvation.

Here is a simple verse below, that anyone who thinks their works contribute to their salvation. Will not be able to accept without adding something to the verse.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

 

[TMS]

Th

. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit

I agree.

 

[Inquisitor]

Heb 11.....
By faith.... they did works.
By faith .... the did works....
Verse after verse that shows that through faith they did good works.
Faith and works can't be seperated.

Yet, faith and works are entirely separated in the scripture.

Romans 10:8
But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Are you preaching the word of faith?

Or are you preaching the word of faith plus works?

They are two distinct gospel messages.

The two gospel versions generate enormous debate on Christian forums.

 

[Runningman]

Folk across the Christian spectrum, do not understand that by grace, through the instrument of faith, that we are saved. They cannot comprehend fully, that salvation is a free gift from God.

They constantly weave the belief in Jesus and works together, in order to achieve salvation.

Here is a simple verse below, that anyone who thinks their works contribute to their salvation. Will not be able to accept without adding something to the verse.

Romans 10:13
For “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Provided you remain in God’s grace. You’re going to have to abstain from sin the best you can, remain repentant, and trust Him. You can be disciplined for sin and when you learn from the errors you’ll love God more for it.

Hebrews 12
14Pursue peace with everyone, as well as holiness, without which no one will see the Lord. 15See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God, and that no root of bitterness springs up to cause trouble and defile many. 16See to it that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his birthright.17For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected. He could find no ground for repentance, though he sought the blessing with tears.