Does God desire the salvation of all mankind?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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I fail to see how you could even suggest that I'm advocating Universalism as I haven't even hinted at that concept.
I've asked you to give Scriptural references that make a clear distinction between 'God wills and achieves what He wills ...and God wills and doesn't achieve what He wills" and you haven't done so.
If you can't produce those Scriptural distinctions I can only reasonably conclude that you can't find such Scriptural references because they don't exist but notwithstanding you see no distinction between 'God willed i.e. that which He wills is certain to occur e.g. Genesis 2:18 (there's many such examples throughout Scripture) and 'God wants/desires/wishes' you seem quite confident in your interpretation.
Paul being an Old Testament scholar, said this:
1 Timothy 2
3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
So you might want to rethink the whole idea that God actually doesn’t want all people to be saved. It’ll never jive with the Bible. Unless you say apostle Paul was not talking about salvation for all people through Christ Jesus giving himself as a ransom?
God doesn’t make people obey Him even though He wants them to. That’s clear in the world and in the Bible. The verses I supplied you already proved my point. I can’t help you if you don’t accept them, but there’s more. You’re free to dig them up.
I’ve found it’s better for some learners if they find that what they are trying to learn was their idea rather than learning through debate. In a debate people don’t want to be wrong and when the pride and ego gets involved people start twisting scripture like a professional contortionist. Counterintuitively, it’s a great weakness of many.
As long as you fail to understand that salvation, according to Greek interpretation means "a deliverance", and that there is a one time eternal deliverance, and many deliverances for born again children of God as they sojourn here on earth, you will always believe in the false doctrine of eternal deliverance by your good works.
Eternal deliverance, successfully, took place on the cross for all of those that God gave to Jesus.
The inspired scriptures were written as instructions to God's born again children as to how he wanted them to live their lives while here on earth. It also informs them of how they were promised an eternal inheritance, by Jesus's death on the cross.
Coming unto a knowledge of the gospel delivers (saves) the born again child of God, here in time, from his ignorance of it, and informs them of an abundant, and joyful life as they live here on earth, if they follow his commandments.
These words are directed to the church, his bride (Isaiah 54:5). The "wicked" are the disobedient children of God.
The Jews in Acts 2:38 were born again, and given a new heart of flesh (Ezk 11:19).
The natural man described in 1 Cor 2:14 cannot respond to the things of the Spirit, thinking them to be foolishness. Only those that God has exchanged their heart of stone, such as the natural man's, to a heart of flesh that can be "pricked" to feel spiritual guilt, such as those Jews in Acts 2:38.
An example of the natural man's reaction, with a heart of stone, is found in Acts 5:33. Stephen was preaching the same sermon as Peter in Acts 2:38, and they were "cut to the heart", and responded by taking counsel to slay him.
Response to " whosoever will"
What about John 6: 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. Matt 7: 2 Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth the will of my Father. Matt 6: 9-10 After this manner, therefore, pray ye: Our Father, who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matt 12: 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, who is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matt 18: 2-4 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Whosoever, therefore, shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. Little children depend on their parents for their existence and subsistence. They recognize that their parents have authority over them and they obey. Love binds them together. Matt 26: 42 O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me except I drink it, thy will be done. Jesus' will would rather for God to find another way if possible but is content to obey the Fathers will over His own. John 1 : 13 Who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Are you saying that it is you that decided to get saved and should get the glory for your salvation and not God?
Rom 9: 14-16 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then, it is NOT of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy. 1 Cor 1: 29 That no flesh should glory in His presence.
L
Locoponydirtman
Guest
The Holy Spirit empowers the words of the Gospel spoken to a person to convict them of sin and convince them of Christ. Where by they are compelled by thr Spirit.
Both Calvin and arminius are wrong. The Bible puts the onus of those who reject God, upon the one who rejects and credits God for those who recieve God
Calvin makes God a liar for making a promise of salvation to any who would believe, then arbitrarily rejects the man. Arminius credits men with goodness enough to save himself via having a good will toward Christ.
Yes, I do, the offer stands. But they will not. God is just. Acts 17:24-30.
Better translated as God gives to us "MEASURED", or Metered Faith. Gaith IS ALWAYS GIFTED by revelation (just like "Conviction of SIN" is a gifted knowledge of our REAL standing before a righteous God).
BINGO!! it's a "Cause and effect" issue. Works HAVE NO VALUE salvifically, but they will invariably be THE RESULT of a living FAITH.
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), Therefore a person does not have spiritual faith until after he has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which is given when the person is quickened, by God, to the new spiritual life. (Eph 2:1-5).
Saved, according to Greek translation means "delivered". There is a deliverance, here in time, for the babe in Christ, when he comes unto a knowledge of the truth. This scripture has no reference to eternal deliverance.
By the work of the Spirit in our spirit. A wind that blows across your heart and brings Truth. As we respond to that Truth it furrows the Hard soil of our heart until the ground is fallowed enough to accept the seed of the gospel, to the acknowledging of our sins, and the desire to be made clean in the presence of a Holy GOD that demands justice.
It is the work of the Spirit giving us the faith to respond to Truth. GOD blows the wind of Truth, or seeds spread in the field, but some soil is not fertile because they do not receive a love of the Truth that they may be saved.
If you read Rev.9:20-21, GOD is expecting men to repent of their wickedness even though He is blowing the wind of Truth by causing pain for their evils. He is doing this to those that know Him not and if we are honest with the text, we can see this is his call to repentance.
K
kaylagrl
Guest
Coming is an act of free will. Trust me on this. I have a German Shepard and it took me a long time to teach her to come to me for her own safety. And as well trained as she is she still enacts her free will when she sees a kitty cat and doesn't come to me. I can even see her making the calculation in her head, if her action is going to lead her to or away from me.
Again, and act of free will. He that doeth, that is an action. And of you can doeth you cannot doeth with your free will.
1 Tim. This is good and pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who wants everyone to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and men, the Man, Christ Jesus, Who gave Himself a ransom for all,
No, children learn right from wrong and based on consequences vs rewards they learn to choose right from wrong. It's taught.
There is an old song we use to sing and it said "He could have called ten thousand angels." But He didn't he CHOSE to be obedient to the Fathers will.
Ummm ,I can't die to forgive my own sins. Glory goes to Jesus.
That is speaking about the chosen Jews verses Gentiles.
