Why Do We Pretend to know when JESUS was BORN?

[BroTan]

Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight.
Acts 20:7 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/act.20.7.NKJV

Let's take a look at (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today. The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later.

So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. So actually Paul left Sunday Morning, but this verse (Acts: 20:7) says nothing about a change of the Lord’s holy sabbath day. And the term “break bread” simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[BroTan]

So exactly where did Christmas come from? World Scope Encyclopedia (1960 vol.3) states, "Christmas, the festival observed by the Christian Church on the 25th day of December in commemoration of the birth of Jesus Christ. No certain knowledge of the birthday of Jesus Christ exists and its observance was not established until some time after the organization of the first churches. The 25th day of December was advocated by Julius 1, Bishop of Rome from 337 to 352, as the most suitable time to commemorate the birth of Christ. The day was finally placed on December 25th, which made it possible for all nations to observe a festival of rejoicing that the shortest day of the year has passed. Moreover, the newly converted peoples found it convenient to get a kind of substitute for their original celebrations of the solstice". The birth of Jesus the Christ was assigned the date of December 25th, because on this day, as the sun began its return to the northern skies, the pagan devotees of Mithra celebrated the dies natalis Solis Invicti (birthday of the invincible sun). The history book a Pictorial History of the Italian People states, "Saint Gregory was repelled by Graeco-Roman civilization and, paradoxically, did more than anyone else to facilitate the absorption of pagan residues into Italian Christianity. Through that process of absorption, any paganism hostile to Christianity remaining in Italian rural communities faded away". Check your history, you'll find that the customs associated with Christmas were celebrated some 2000 years before Jesus.

But if we got Christmas from the Roman Catholics, and they got it from paganism, where did the pagans get it? Where, when, and what was its real origin? It started and originated in the original Bablyhon of ancient Nimrod. Nimrod, grandson of Ham, son of Noah built the tower of Babel. Nimrod married his own mother, whose name is Semiramis. After Nimrod's, Semiramis claimed a full grown evergreen tree sprang overnight from a dead tree stump, which symbolized the springing forth unto new life of the dead Nimrod. On each anniversary of his birth, she claimed Nimrod would visit the evergreen tree and leave gifts upon it. December 25th was the birthday of Nimrod. This is the real origin of the Christmas tree.

Through her scheming and designing, Semiramis became the Babylonia "Queen of Heaven," and Nimrod, under various names, became the "divine son of heaven." Through the generations, in this idolatrius worship, Nimrod also became the false Messiah, son of Baal the Sun-god. In this false Bablyhonish system, the "Mother and Child" (Semiramis and Nimrod reborn) became chief objects of worship. This worship of "Mother and Child" spread over the world. The names varied in different countries and languages. In Egypt it was Isis and Osiris. In Asia, Cybele and Deoius. In pagan Rome, Fortuna and Jupiterpuer. Even in Greece, China, Japan, Tibet is to be found the counterpart of the Madonna, long before the birth of Christ. The Lord God of Israel made reference to the worshiping and sacrificing to the "Queen of Heaven" in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Let's take a look at (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today. The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later.

So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. So actually Paul left Sunday Morning, but this verse (Acts: 20:7) says nothing about a change of the Lord’s holy sabbath day. And the term “break bread” simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

In other words the sabbath was over and the first day had begun.

 

[Cameron143]

In other words the sabbath was over and the first day had begun.

That's the teaching of Matthew 28:1

 

[Locoponydirtman]

That's the teaching of Matthew 28:1

Bingo, you got it. You win the plush stuffed prize. Now go to the coffee shop and get yourself a vannilla latte because you deserve it.

 

[Cameron143]

Bingo, you got it. You win the plush stuffed prize. Now go to the coffee shop and get yourself a vannilla latte because you deserve it.

Wow. It's beginning to look alot like Christmas...everyone is in the giving spirit.

 

[BroTan]

In other words the sabbath was over and the first day had begun.

I believe thats what the book is saying.

 

[BroTan]

Myths Concerning Jesus

"And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that the entire world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn". (St. Luke 2:1-7)

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him. When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born. And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet, And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel. Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh". (St. Matthew 2:1-11)

The bible record of the birth of Jesus doesn't give a date for his birth. Even Herod, the King of Judea, didn't know the date of Jesus birth; so how can we know it? The wise men (maybe 2 or 300), the bible didn't give a number, found the young child (not infant) in the house (not the manger). Well, so much for that fairy tale.

Let's look at some of the absurd things applied to the day that man has set for the birthday of the Son of God, Jesus the Christ, our Savior. Santa Clause, Ole Saint Nick, that jolly old fat man that lives in the North Pole, runs a workshop with Elves (little people) and ride on a sleigh pulled by flying reindeer. He is reported to deliver gifts to all good children around the world on Christmas, beginning at midnight and being done before morning. Entering houses by landing his sleigh on the rooftops and descending down the chimney with his bag of toys on his back. Once in the house, he puts the toys around the Christmas tree, eats the cookies and drinks the milk that is left for him before going to the next house. Sometimes taking time to get a kiss from mommy. Well, according to history, Saint Nicholas, who they portray Santa Clause, or Ole Saint Nick after, was a 4th century Bishop of Myra, which is located in Asia Minor , on the southwestern coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

A long way away from the North Pole! Also, according to Webster student dictionary, the definition for Nick, "The Devil" usually Old Nick. Now, is it possible to travel around the world in less than 24 hours stopping at every house? Reindeers don't fly; Christmas takes place in winter, so there's fire in the fireplaces to keep the house warm. What do you think would happen to a fat man trying to come down a chimney with a bag of toys on his back with a fire in the fireplace? If it's suppose to be Jesus birthday; why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him? A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him. And what do a decorated tree, mistletoe, Yule logs, fire and lights have to do with Jesus?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

why do we have to buy each other presents and what do we give him?

What so ever you do unto the least of my brothers also you do unto me. So we give to children and the poor.

I dont know any christians who are getting drunk and committing those adultry or fornication.
Why do Christians bother with worrying abkut what pagans do or the lies they tell? Or that they try and coopt our celebrations and paganize them? Pagans gonna pagan.

I like how you listed all the horrible things pagans do, but none of the good things that christians do. We come together and read the Bible account of the birth of Christ and all the prophesies surrounding Jesus. We hold long services where we sing many songs of praise to the Lord. We on top of the regular charity work do extra charity work, providing meals and gifts for poor families and their children.
As for Nick, its short for Nicholas. Saint Nicholas was a real.Christian pastor, who was known for his extraordinary charity work, and he also sat on the counsel of Nicea. The real story is more compelling than the myths. I dont care about the myths that pagans tell.
I wonder why a christian would rather look at the evil of pagans rather than the good of christians?

 

[ResidentAlien]

Even if we adhere to the scripture account, the wise men brought gifts to the baby Jesus and worshipped Him; they didn't exchange gifts with one another. The whole thing about exchanging gifts came from somewhere else; not sure where, but it didn't come from scripture. It's a lie to say something comes from the scripture when it clearly doesn't.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Psa 112:9 says: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever; his horn will be lifted high in honor."

St. Nicholas was a historical 4th Century Bishop who did these things. I'm not speaking of any commercialized version. St. Nicholas wasn't fat; he was an ascetic. St. Nicholas also wasn't a doctrinal indifferentist. He fiercely defended the Divinity of Christ at a time it was denied by Arians - founded by Arius, who denied Christ's Divinity. Christ's Divinity is so evident in the Gospel accounts of Christmas events, when the Magi worship Baby Jesus and offer Him incense as one does to God Almighty.

I love Christmas and there are many ways of celebrating it. All that leads us to think more of God, love Christ, His Incarnation among us for our Salvation, love our neighbor more, and renew our dedication or surrender to God is good imo.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

https://www.oca.org/saints/lives/20...-the-wonderworker-archbishop-of-myra-in-lycia

"After his consecration as archbishop, Saint Nicholas remained a great ascetic [not a fat man, as the commercialized version wrongly has it], appearing to his flock as an image of gentleness, kindness and love for people. This was particularly precious for the Lycian Church during the persecution of Christians under the emperor Diocletian (284-305). Bishop Nicholas, locked up in prison together with other Christians for refusing to worship idols, sustained them and exhorted them to endure the fetters, punishment and torture. The Lord preserved him unharmed. Upon the accession of Saint Constantine (May 21) as emperor, Saint Nicholas was restored to his flock, which joyfully received their guide and intercessor.

Despite his great gentleness of spirit and purity of heart, Saint Nicholas was a zealous and ardent warrior of the Church of Christ. Fighting evil spirits, the saint made the rounds of the pagan temples and shrines in the city of Myra and its surroundings, shattering the idols and turning the temples to dust.

In the year 325 Saint Nicholas was a participant in the First Ecumenical Council. This Council proclaimed the Nicean Symbol of Faith, and he stood up against the heretic Arius with the likes of Saints Sylvester the Bishop of Rome (January 2), Alexander of Alexandria (May 29), Spyridon of Trimythontos (December 12) and other Fathers of the Council.

Saint Nicholas, fired with zeal for the Lord, assailed the heretic Arius with his words, and also struck him upon the face. For this reason, he was deprived of the emblems of his episcopal rank and placed under guard. But several of the holy Fathers had the same vision, seeing the Lord Himself and the Mother of God returning to him the Gospel and omophorion. The Fathers of the Council agreed that the audacity of the saint was pleasing to God, and restored the saint to the office of bishop.

Having returned to his own diocese, the saint brought it peace and blessings, sowing the word of Truth, uprooting heresy, nourishing his flock with sound doctrine, and also providing food for their bodies. The face of Saint Nicholas resembled that of an Angel, resplendent with divine grace. A brilliant ray shone from his face, like that which shone from the face of Moses (Exodus 34:29), so that those who looked at him were astonished. Whoever was oppressed by some affliction or passion of the soul had only to behold the Saint, and his sorrow was eased at once. As for those who conversed with him, they soon found themselves advancing on the path of virtue. Not only were the faithful moved to compassion, but unbelievers as well, and they directed their steps on the path of salvation when they heard him speak. The evil of unbelief which had been implanted in their hearts since childhood was uprooted, and in its place, the word of truth was sown."

 

[Cameron143]

Even if we adhere to the scripture account, the wise men brought gifts to the baby Jesus and worshipped Him; they didn't exchange gifts with one another. The whole thing about exchanging gifts came from somewhere else; not sure where, but it didn't come from scripture. It's a lie to say something comes from the scripture when it clearly doesn't.

God gave a gift. Those who received it also gave gifts. One way we give love to God today is to love others. This would include giving as Jesus pointed out to the sheep and the goats.
It's an issue of motive, not action. Give gifts in Jesus name. It is certainly more blessed to give than receive.

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Hebrews 13:

15Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise, the fruit of lips that confess His name. 16And do not neglect to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.

 

[Eli1]

God gave a gift. Those who received it also gave gifts. One way we give love to God today is to love others. This would include giving as Jesus pointed out to the sheep and the goats.
It's an issue of motive, not action. Give gifts in Jesus name. It is certainly more blessed to give than receive.

The frozen chosen!
Love that and it makes me laugh. It’s also impossible to forget so thank you !

 

[Cameron143]

The frozen chosen!
Love that and it makes me laugh. It’s also impossible to forget so thank you !

I wish I could take credit for it but like most things I write I'm borrowing.
I have truly been blessed to have by God a number of godly men who invested themselves in me. And we are all blessed to stand on the shoulders of the faithful before us and by them allowed to see further than they.

 

[hornetguy]

A day filled with drinking, resulting in drunkenness, a day with a lot of fornication and adultery taking place. A day filled with lies pertaining to him.

Wow..... Christmas must be an exciting time at your house... all that drunkenness and fornication...
We have somehow missed out on all of that at our Christmas gatherings...

 

[notmyown]

Wow..... Christmas must be an exciting time at your house... all that drunkenness and fornication...
We have somehow missed out on all of that at our Christmas gatherings...

i'm so glad you began posting again

 

[WillB]

Can you show were they slept in beds, sat at tables, drove in cars, bought clothes, got hair cuts, wore pants. Arguments from silence are useless.

WB: LOL

To understand doctrines and other Bible related matters the thing to do is ....refer to what's written in the Bible....and to not insert anything extra Biblical to support unBiblical views.

 

[WillB]

The angels celebrated the birth of Christ and wise men (magi) from either Persia or Arabia traveled hundreds of miles to bring Him costly gifts. The shepherds were told by the angels to go and give the good news to as many as they could.

Yes. Angels informed shepherds about the good news of the birth of Jesus and which they as witnesses would attest to for the historical record. And yes, of course, the angel rejoiced because the understood and appreciate what His appearance would mean for fallen mankind.

As for the Magi, they didn't arrive until about 2 years later with their gifts.....and have you considered Biblical warnings about 'star gazers' and what their arrival caused when Herod discovered their presence?

Anyway, my question - which you didn't directly respond to - is:

"Anyway, can you show us in Scripture where and when Jesus and His early disciples celebrated His birth?"