Be careful what you wish for...
Your head may come too close to the sun.
Your head may come too close to the sun.
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If we want to celebrate the birth of Christ, why not pick a new date and new name?
- Thread starter ResidentAlien
- Start date
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Maybe I should ask for adjustable stilts then I can to and fro
Be careful what you wish for...
Your head may come too close to the sun.
Your head may come too close to the sun.
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And now, I must bid you adouoooooooo...
Merry Christmas everybody!
Merry Christmas everybody!
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As for me and my house (my cat), we love Christmas and refuse to "rump a dump dump" on it.
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Of course, Christ's true country is the kingdom of heaven and his birth was when he came to live in the kingdom of the world. The pagans of the world had celebrations of winter when farm work was done for the year, some of them was a celebration very like our celebration today oi New Years is supposed to be.
It was not the Lord who told us to celebrate the birth of Christ, it was man. Christians wanted to celebrate, they loved Christ, so they celebrated Christ instead of alcohol. The merchants of the kingdom of the world send the message to buy, buy, buy, but even today's pagans hear of Christ as hymns are played. So God brings good to this celebration.
It was not the Lord who told us to celebrate the birth of Christ, it was man. Christians wanted to celebrate, they loved Christ, so they celebrated Christ instead of alcohol. The merchants of the kingdom of the world send the message to buy, buy, buy, but even today's pagans hear of Christ as hymns are played. So God brings good to this celebration.
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The Lord is sovereign, nothing happens without being under His sovereignty. Based on that I believe that we celebrate the birth of the savior when we do because of His sovereignty. We know it isn't the birthday of Jesus so whose birthday could it be?
The evening before we will have a worship service celebrating the birth of the manchild and then the following morning we celebrate being visited by a thief in the night who is clearly Satan disguised as a jolly old man who is mocking the rapture and pushing the worship of materialism and trying to exchange our eternal inheritance in Christ for a bunch of junk from the mall.
Coincidentally this celebration does not mark the birth of Jesus but it does mark the birth of an antichrist like figure from the Babylonian religion.
Santa's sleigh visiting every home on earth in a single night reminds us of several events in the Bible but most notably of the rapture and then we celebrate the birth of the antichrist.
The evening before we will have a worship service celebrating the birth of the manchild and then the following morning we celebrate being visited by a thief in the night who is clearly Satan disguised as a jolly old man who is mocking the rapture and pushing the worship of materialism and trying to exchange our eternal inheritance in Christ for a bunch of junk from the mall.
Coincidentally this celebration does not mark the birth of Jesus but it does mark the birth of an antichrist like figure from the Babylonian religion.
Santa's sleigh visiting every home on earth in a single night reminds us of several events in the Bible but most notably of the rapture and then we celebrate the birth of the antichrist.
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Yep, that is what I was told for years. I met with a church that was absolute about Christmas not being Biblical and we had nothing to do with it for 20 years. Then I met with a church that knew it wasn't biblical but felt that it was an opportunity to spread the gospel for 20 years. So I have seen both sides.
So let's examine this claim that it is "a great opportunity to spread the gospel". How did they do that? Well they would put a whole lot of effort into a Christmas play. The quality of the play depended a lot on the people involved and over 20 years there was a range. But I never once heard anyone share a testimony that they got saved or came to the Lord by attending one of those plays. Those plays involved the effort of at least fifty or sixty people, maybe more. It was a lot of effort and the result was often an interesting way to speak the word, reminding the viewers of the Lord Jesus Christ and His ministry.
So like Paul I rejoice whenever the word of God is spoken. That said any claims that "this is a great way to spread the gospel" I feel are completely unsubstantiated. I personally have seen far better ways to preach the gospel with much more substantial results.
Yes, it is a self righteous condemnation of anyone who refuses to go along with the worship of materialism.
It is a sure sign of Satan that they slander everyone who takes issue with this holiday as being a "scrooge" or a "grinch".
So let's examine this claim that it is "a great opportunity to spread the gospel". How did they do that? Well they would put a whole lot of effort into a Christmas play. The quality of the play depended a lot on the people involved and over 20 years there was a range. But I never once heard anyone share a testimony that they got saved or came to the Lord by attending one of those plays. Those plays involved the effort of at least fifty or sixty people, maybe more. It was a lot of effort and the result was often an interesting way to speak the word, reminding the viewers of the Lord Jesus Christ and His ministry.
So like Paul I rejoice whenever the word of God is spoken. That said any claims that "this is a great way to spread the gospel" I feel are completely unsubstantiated. I personally have seen far better ways to preach the gospel with much more substantial results.
Yes, it is a self righteous condemnation of anyone who refuses to go along with the worship of materialism.
It is a sure sign of Satan that they slander everyone who takes issue with this holiday as being a "scrooge" or a "grinch".
The other day I was at a food giveaway. The cars line up, get a number and receive a box of food. We go there to pass out Bibles. Another brother and I passed out 400 English New Testaments and 9 Spanish New Testaments. We go from car to car and share with the people. I will share something that I enjoyed that week from the word of God. The temperature dropped to 20 degrees F, and the wind was very strong, maybe 20 mph, and by 6 pm it was very dark out.
This is not the only way to preach the gospel or spread the word. But I prayed with many people, shared the word of God with many people, and I never saw our very large church with the great effort they put into the Christmas play bring in 400 visitors. Perhaps they would have ten visitors who were coming to church for the first time.
However, I have heard many testimonies of people coming to the Lord in this way by having someone speak to them one on one, by receiving a Bible, and by praying with someone.
This is not the only way to preach the gospel or spread the word. But I prayed with many people, shared the word of God with many people, and I never saw our very large church with the great effort they put into the Christmas play bring in 400 visitors. Perhaps they would have ten visitors who were coming to church for the first time.
However, I have heard many testimonies of people coming to the Lord in this way by having someone speak to them one on one, by receiving a Bible, and by praying with someone.
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Please note that many of the anti-Christmas polemics which affirm as a "fact" that Christians borrowed from Mithras or someone else come from well known anti-Christian writers like Christ-mythers. For e.g. Wiki says: "Originator of the Christ myth theory, Charles-François Dupuis, set out to prove the Mithraic origins of Christianity." More on that in a minute.
Here is a fascinating more recent study: "Revisiting the Fathers: An Examination of the Christmas Date in Several Early Patristic Writers Kurt M Simmons, JD: "Editor's note: This article appeared in 98 Questions Liturgiques (2017) 143-180. The article documents occurrence of the Christmas date to sometime between the mid- first to mid- second centuries. Specifically, it demonstrates from heretofore lost or unrecognized excerpts of Julius Africanus (AD 160-240) and a work attributed to Evodius (died circa AD 64-68) that the Christmas date was an integral part of the Protoevangelium of James before it settled into its present form sometime in the latter half of the second century. The article then shows that the above conclusions are supported by a published article by Yale PhD candidate, Thomas C. Schmidt, which shows that Hippolytus (AD 170-236), a younger contemporary of Africanus, also almost certainly subscribed to the December 25th birth of Christ. The article concludes that the Christmas date therefore cannot be accounted for by other leading theories, and instead appears to stem from an early tradition (legend or report) whence it was received in good faith by the fathers of following ages." Taken from: https://www.dec25th.info/Revisiting the Fathers.html
So, a recap:
(1) 2nd century writers - long before the 4th Century. - like Julius Africanus and perhaps even a work attributed to St. Evodius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evodius), a first century Bishop said to be one of the 72 disciples of Christ, state Dec. 25th as a Christian celebration of Christmas. The Protoevangelium of James mentions Zechariah as a High Priest ministering in the Temple on Yom Kippur when John the Baptist was conceived. Yom Kippur is in late Sept., as mentioned earlier, which agrees with a late March Conception of Christ, and a late Dec. Birth.
(2) So what happened in the 4th century exactly, and what is the connection to Mithras? Firstly, you will find all sorts of unhistorical nonsense from anti-Christian atheists on this, for e.g. the claim that Mithras was supposedly born of a virgin. Rubbish! As per the mythology, he was born of a rock! That is refuted here: "Some non-scholarly writers say that the birth of Mithras was a virgin birth, like that of Jesus. No ancient source gives such a birth myth for Mithras. Rather Mithras is always described as born from solid rock.11" https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=Mithras_and_Jesus The link mentions the atheist writers who claim this with references.
To Wikipedia's credit, it correctly mentions that about Mithras: "Mithras was born from a rock. David Ulansey speculates that this was a belief derived from the Perseus myths, which held he was born from a cavern.[18]
And about Dec. 25th? Even that is far from clear. The original sources about Mithras don't mention any such thing. The same Wiki link continues: "Beck (1987)[24] argues that this is unproven. He writes:
"The only evidence for it is the celebration of the birthday of Invictus on that date in [the 4th century/354 A.D.] Calendar of Philocalus. Invictus is of course Sol Invictus, Aurelian's sun god. It does not follow that a different, earlier, and unofficial sun god, Sol Invictus Mithras, was necessarily or even probably, born on that day too."[24]: 299, n. 12 [d] "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism_in_comparison_with_other_belief_systems#25th_of_December
And so, the evidence that Christians borrowed anything, including the 25th of December date, from Mithras is very weak. The fact that Christians celebrated 25th December long before pagans did makes it far more likely that, if any borrowing took place, it was probably in the other direction, namely pagans taking it from Christians because of the rising popularity of Christianity. The link says: "Christian apologists, among them Ronald Nash[16] and Edwin Yamauchi,[17] have suggested a different interpretation of Mithraism's relationship to Christianity. Yamauchi, pointing out that some of the textual evidence for Mithraist doctrine was written after the New Testament was in circulation, makes a logical leap in considering that it is more likely that Mithraism borrowed from Christianity, rather than the other way around"
God Bless.
Here is a fascinating more recent study: "Revisiting the Fathers: An Examination of the Christmas Date in Several Early Patristic Writers Kurt M Simmons, JD: "Editor's note: This article appeared in 98 Questions Liturgiques (2017) 143-180. The article documents occurrence of the Christmas date to sometime between the mid- first to mid- second centuries. Specifically, it demonstrates from heretofore lost or unrecognized excerpts of Julius Africanus (AD 160-240) and a work attributed to Evodius (died circa AD 64-68) that the Christmas date was an integral part of the Protoevangelium of James before it settled into its present form sometime in the latter half of the second century. The article then shows that the above conclusions are supported by a published article by Yale PhD candidate, Thomas C. Schmidt, which shows that Hippolytus (AD 170-236), a younger contemporary of Africanus, also almost certainly subscribed to the December 25th birth of Christ. The article concludes that the Christmas date therefore cannot be accounted for by other leading theories, and instead appears to stem from an early tradition (legend or report) whence it was received in good faith by the fathers of following ages." Taken from: https://www.dec25th.info/Revisiting the Fathers.html
So, a recap:
(1) 2nd century writers - long before the 4th Century. - like Julius Africanus and perhaps even a work attributed to St. Evodius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evodius), a first century Bishop said to be one of the 72 disciples of Christ, state Dec. 25th as a Christian celebration of Christmas. The Protoevangelium of James mentions Zechariah as a High Priest ministering in the Temple on Yom Kippur when John the Baptist was conceived. Yom Kippur is in late Sept., as mentioned earlier, which agrees with a late March Conception of Christ, and a late Dec. Birth.
(2) So what happened in the 4th century exactly, and what is the connection to Mithras? Firstly, you will find all sorts of unhistorical nonsense from anti-Christian atheists on this, for e.g. the claim that Mithras was supposedly born of a virgin. Rubbish! As per the mythology, he was born of a rock! That is refuted here: "Some non-scholarly writers say that the birth of Mithras was a virgin birth, like that of Jesus. No ancient source gives such a birth myth for Mithras. Rather Mithras is always described as born from solid rock.11" https://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/mithras/display.php?page=Mithras_and_Jesus The link mentions the atheist writers who claim this with references.
To Wikipedia's credit, it correctly mentions that about Mithras: "Mithras was born from a rock. David Ulansey speculates that this was a belief derived from the Perseus myths, which held he was born from a cavern.[18]
And about Dec. 25th? Even that is far from clear. The original sources about Mithras don't mention any such thing. The same Wiki link continues: "Beck (1987)[24] argues that this is unproven. He writes:
"The only evidence for it is the celebration of the birthday of Invictus on that date in [the 4th century/354 A.D.] Calendar of Philocalus. Invictus is of course Sol Invictus, Aurelian's sun god. It does not follow that a different, earlier, and unofficial sun god, Sol Invictus Mithras, was necessarily or even probably, born on that day too."[24]: 299, n. 12 [d] "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism_in_comparison_with_other_belief_systems#25th_of_December
And so, the evidence that Christians borrowed anything, including the 25th of December date, from Mithras is very weak. The fact that Christians celebrated 25th December long before pagans did makes it far more likely that, if any borrowing took place, it was probably in the other direction, namely pagans taking it from Christians because of the rising popularity of Christianity. The link says: "Christian apologists, among them Ronald Nash[16] and Edwin Yamauchi,[17] have suggested a different interpretation of Mithraism's relationship to Christianity. Yamauchi, pointing out that some of the textual evidence for Mithraist doctrine was written after the New Testament was in circulation, makes a logical leap in considering that it is more likely that Mithraism borrowed from Christianity, rather than the other way around"
God Bless.
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Please note, anyone who tries to defend the Christmas celebration as being Biblical
1. Children are confused by the mixing of the Santa Claus myth with the stories of Jesus birth. When they discover that the Santa Claus story is a lie they easily assume that the Bible is a myth.
2. Christmas is clearly teaching people to be materialistic. At least 50% is dedicated to worshipping idols and fornication. The Christmas tree is an idol that dates back to Babylonian religion.
3. No one could possibly believe that this census would be done on December 25th. People are stumbling around in the dark and the cold trying to get to the census? You have the elderly, the young children and even pregnant women.
4. The reason they let Joseph and Mary sleep in the barn is because the animals weren't in the barn.
1. Children are confused by the mixing of the Santa Claus myth with the stories of Jesus birth. When they discover that the Santa Claus story is a lie they easily assume that the Bible is a myth.
2. Christmas is clearly teaching people to be materialistic. At least 50% is dedicated to worshipping idols and fornication. The Christmas tree is an idol that dates back to Babylonian religion.
3. No one could possibly believe that this census would be done on December 25th. People are stumbling around in the dark and the cold trying to get to the census? You have the elderly, the young children and even pregnant women.
4. The reason they let Joseph and Mary sleep in the barn is because the animals weren't in the barn.