Jesus is God

[Runningman]

Disturbing thread.

I guess it’s possible to be saved and yet deny that Jesus is God, but I don’t see how.

The denial of Jesus’s divinity is a damnable heresy. I’m surprised that it is permitted here.

Catholic doctrine is rightfully not permitted here, yet even THEY do not deny that Jesus is God.

It's possible to be saved if you believe Jesus is who he said he is.

Matthew 16
15“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
16Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

John 8
24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

 

[wattie]

Jesus is eternal and thats a fact fine but is the son an eternal authority
?

If He is eternal, then He would have the authority aswell. Remember before the NT.. almost all reference to God are of a the fully God being.. and Jesus was around before the NT-- pre existing.

He is no longer limited in any way.

 

[Franc254]

i dont think these are three persons ...the Godhead is the fullness of God i dont think its a triune God...for instance who is the Holy spirit....is he a person separate from The father and the son but still God?

 

[Runningman]

Jesus, Paul, and Peter identified the Father as God. They identified Jesus as Lord. This is the same consistent narrative through the New Testament.

John 6
27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.”

Ephesians 1
17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 10
9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Peter 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 2
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

 

[Franc254]

Jesus, Paul, and Peter identified the Father as God. They identified Jesus as Lord. This is the same consistent narrative through the New Testament.

John 6
27Do not work for food that perishes, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on Him God the Father has placed His seal of approval.”

Ephesians 1
17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.

Romans 10
9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

1 Peter 1
3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 2
36“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

what are the characteristics of the Father?

 

[Runningman]

what are the characteristics of the Father?

There’s a lot, but like a child who learned everything from their parent(s), Jesus as the Son of God learned everything from his Father. In essence, if you observe Jesus you should be able to determine what the Father is like, what kind of things are important to the Father, etc.

John 14
9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 7
16Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

 

[Franc254]

There’s a lot, but like a child who learned everything from their parent(s), Jesus as the Son of God learned everything from his Father. In essence, if you observe Jesus you should be able to determine what the Father is like, what kind of things are important to the Father, etc.

John 14
9Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

John 7
16Jesus answered, “My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me.

so Jesus is just restricted to the son in your opinion?'

 

[Runningman]

so Jesus is just restricted to the son in your opinion?'

Biblically speaking, Jesus is typically referred to as the Son, or the Messiah, or Lord. Jesus isn’t referred to as the Father or the Holy Spirit. I don’t want to add my opinion to any of this or go beyond what is written.

 

[wattie]

i dont think these are three persons ...the Godhead is the fullness of God i dont think its a triune God...for instance who is the Holy spirit....is he a person separate from The father and the son but still God?

Distinct from the Father.. yes.. but actually seperate? I don't think so. The Spirit of God moved across the face of the waters in the beginning.. that's the Holy Spirit. That's not seperation.. but it is distinction. The Holy Spirit spoke to the churches in Revelation. This was also Jesus speaking to the churches. Again.. distinction.. but not seperation imo.

Jesus sent the Comforter.. the Holy Spirit. Yet.. it is Jesus who is 'in the midst' of a church He calls His own. Distinction.. not seperation.

Jesus was in a different position to the Father when in the flesh. The Father 'greater'.. but then Jesus ascends to be one with the Father. Distinction.. not seperation.

An analogy that isn't quite the best but does help.. is the person's body, mind and spirit. They are distinct.. but not seperated in their interelation to eachother.

 

[Franc254]

Biblically speaking, Jesus is typically referred to as the Son, or the Messiah, or Lord. Jesus isn’t referred to as the Father or the Holy Spirit. I don’t want to add my opinion to any of this or go beyond what is written.

2nd Corinthians 3:12-18
"Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."...this is why we cant just put Jesus to the son alone because he is also the spirit....

Matthew 10:18-20

"But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."..The spirit of their Father....

Mark 13:11
"Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit"

Galatians4:4-6

"But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[b] 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[c] Father."

John 14:22-23

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."

we have both the father and the son in us when we have the Holy spirit...and the Holy spirit is also the spirit of Jesus....

not two distinct persons He came back but as the Holy spirit...who perfroms the work of the son of God you know teaching, counselling even raising the dead...through his servants

 

[Franc254]

Distinct from the Father.. yes.. but actually seperate? I don't think so. The Spirit of God moved across the face of the waters in the beginning.. that's the Holy Spirit. That's not seperation.. but it is distinction. The Holy Spirit spoke to the churches in Revelation. This was also Jesus speaking to the churches. Again.. distinction.. but not seperation imo.

Jesus sent the Comforter.. the Holy Spirit. Yet.. it is Jesus who is 'in the midst' of a church He calls His own. Distinction.. not seperation.

Jesus was in a different position to the Father when in the flesh. The Father 'greater'.. but then Jesus ascends to be one with the Father. Distinction.. not seperation.

An analogy that isn't quite the best but does help.. is the person's body, mind and spirit. They are distinct.. but not seperated in their interelation to eachother.

Yes basically Jesus coudnt come in his glory as the Father to save humanity he had to die and to die he had to become a servant of God...the son has his beginnings, Jesus doesnt have beginnings as the Father but his role as a son has beginnings...he did not preexist as a son....
Hebrews 5:5
"In the same way, Christ did not take on himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father."....so there is a beginning of sonship

2nd Samuel 7:11-14
"The Lord declares to you that the Lord himself will establish a house for you: 12 When your days are over and you rest with your ancestors, I will raise up your offspring to succeed you, your own flesh and blood, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He is the one who will build a house for my Name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his father, and he will be my son. When he does wrong, I will punish him with a rod wielded by men, with floggings inflicted by human hands."

 

[Runningman]

2nd Corinthians 3:12-18
"Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate[a] the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."...this is why we cant just put Jesus to the son alone because he is also the spirit....

I don’t think your interpretation is accurate given the context of the passage. Paul is contrasting followers of the mosaic Law with followers of the gospel of Christ.

This, I believe Paul is speaking of the gospel. Consider this for example:

1 Thessalonians
4For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.

Matthew 10:18-20

"But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you."..The spirit of their Father....

Mark 13:11
"Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit"

Being a vessel of, or an instrument of, didn’t make the disciples of Jesus God themselves.

Galatians4:4-6

"But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. 6 Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba Father."

What do you mean with this passage?

John 14:22-23

Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said, “But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied, “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."

we have both the father and the son in us when we have the Holy spirit...and the Holy spirit is also the spirit of Jesus....

not two distinct persons He came back but as the Holy spirit...who perfroms the work of the son of God you know teaching, counselling even raising the dead...through his servants

This passage doesn’t claim what your personal commentary claims. It doesn’t say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same exact persons.

Consider something else Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15
27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

 

[Franc254]

I don’t think your interpretation is accurate given the context of the passage. Paul is contrasting followers of the mosaic Law with followers of the gospel of Christ.

This, I believe Paul is speaking of the gospel. Consider this for example:

1 Thessalonians
4For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake.



Being a vessel of, or an instrument of, didn’t make the disciples of Jesus God themselves.



What do you mean with this passage?



This passage doesn’t claim what your personal commentary claims. It doesn’t say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are the same exact persons.

Consider something else Paul said:

1 Corinthians 15
27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

yes he cannot humble his father's Glory but his human form (the son) can be humbled ...

Psalms 9:7
But the LORD shall endure for ever: He hath prepared his throne for judgment. And he shall judge the world in righteousness, He shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. So God has prepared to judge and we are all going to stand before him one day....but what does Jesus say

John 5;22-23 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him...

Now lets see what Paul says about the Judge....

Acts 17:30-31
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

So God will judge through the man he has appointed...he is coming not as the father but as the son of god...the form he was when he came to earth so that no one has an excuse....everything the man Jesus went through basically happens to us....so thats why he has been given the authority to judge "

Revelation 1:7
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen." ...

Revelation 20;11
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. ....


So now after everything has been completed everything has been put under this man who has all the authority of the Father, he himself will be humbled...there will be no need for a mediator between God and man....salvation has already occured and death has already been defeated ...that was the purpose of the son...salvation but now am I saying that Jesus is humbled no....

Revelation 22:3

"And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads" So the lamb is on the throne even after the son has been humbled....Jesus is still reigning and to prove this

Revelation 14:9-10
"Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."

so the lamb will still have authority even in Hell just as he has authority in Heaven and the new earth.....so the lamb who is Jesus will humble his authority as the son...his human aspect to return to how things were....so the verse is a clear depiction of what will happen after everything has been humbled beneath the sons feet......The Lord said to my Lord, sit at m right, until I put your enemies as your footstool....but he stays until...now what happens after everything is beneath his feet ...he is humbled...that human aspect...not His character as the Father

 

[XavierJesusLovesIndia]

Yes. Jesus is God. He is the Eternal Word of God, through Whom the Heavens were made, as John 1, Col 1 and Gen 1 teach us.

Jn 1:

"The Word Became Flesh 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made."

So the Word of God is the Creator of the universe, in other words, God. So, Jesus was the Word, was with God, and was God.

 

[Runningman]

yes he cannot humble his father's Glory but his human form (the son) can be humbled ...

Psalms 9:7
But the LORD shall endure for ever: He hath prepared his throne for judgment. And he shall judge the world in righteousness, He shall minister judgment to the people in uprightness. So God has prepared to judge and we are all going to stand before him one day....but what does Jesus say

John 5;22-23 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him...

Now lets see what Paul says about the Judge....

Acts 17:30-31
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent. 31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”

So God will judge through the man he has appointed...he is coming not as the father but as the son of god...the form he was when he came to earth so that no one has an excuse....everything the man Jesus went through basically happens to us....so thats why he has been given the authority to judge "

Revelation 1:7
“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”[b]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”[c]
So shall it be! Amen." ...

Revelation 20;11
Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. ....


So now after everything has been completed everything has been put under this man who has all the authority of the Father, he himself will be humbled...there will be no need for a mediator between God and man....salvation has already occured and death has already been defeated ...that was the purpose of the son...salvation but now am I saying that Jesus is humbled no....

Revelation 22:3

"And there shall be no more curse, but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His servants shall serve Him. 4 They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads" So the lamb is on the throne even after the son has been humbled....Jesus is still reigning and to prove this

Revelation 14:9-10
"Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb."

so the lamb will still have authority even in Hell just as he has authority in Heaven and the new earth.....so the lamb who is Jesus will humble his authority as the son...his human aspect to return to how things were....so the verse is a clear depiction of what will happen after everything has been humbled beneath the sons feet......The Lord said to my Lord, sit at m right, until I put your enemies as your footstool....but he stays until...now what happens after everything is beneath his feet ...he is humbled...that human aspect...not His character as the Father

God the Father gave Jesus whatever authority Jesus has. That's very clear and does not make Jesus superior to his Father. I'll show you the Bible's theology about who God the Father is and who the Lord Jesus Christ is. Many people seem to miss this though, either willingly or accidentally, because churches are tight-lipped about these passages. That's scary.


This is critically important, imho. There are a lot more verses than this too.

John 14
28“You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

1 Corinthians 11
3But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

1 Corinthians 8
6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Matthew 11
27“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 5
30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

John 6
38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

 

[Franc254]

yes now you are getting it...there is one mediator between God and humanity THE MAN Jesus Christ....No one can come to the Father except me...you cant
go to the Father without the man Jesus Christ the son of God....You see God's standard is so High we cannot possibly reach it....so we need the son that man Jesus Christ to attain thatand thats why the son came....the man Jesus christ is the son but Jesus' true form is not that of a man...The moment Christ lowered himself to become man so that humans could atleast attain God's Holiness....and thats why he says there is one mediator...the man Jesus Christ....Now when Jesus became man he had to become a servant...now everything a servant of God goes through he had to go through including praying to God...he gave up his Fatherly priviledges to save humanity....the man Jesus Christ....the man who will judge ....the son having all the authority to judge...the son is the human aspect

 

[Franc254]

so the son is an authority Jesus hasbecause he has a human aspect but that will be humbled after everything has been finished

 

[Runningman]

yes now you are getting it...there is one mediator between God and humanity THE MAN Jesus Christ....No one can come to the Father except me...you cant
go to the Father without the man Jesus Christ the son of God....You see God's standard is so High we cannot possibly reach it....so we need the son that man Jesus Christ to attain thatand thats why the son came....the man Jesus christ is the son but Jesus' true form is not that of a man...The moment Christ lowered himself to become man so that humans could atleast attain God's Holiness....and thats why he says there is one mediator...the man Jesus Christ....Now when Jesus became man he had to become a servant...now everything a servant of God goes through he had to go through including praying to God...he gave up his Fatherly priviledges to save humanity....the man Jesus Christ....the man who will judge ....the son having all the authority to judge...the son is the human aspect

I think that's mostly spot on. God delegated to Jesus some power and authority, but power and authority over God wasn't given to Jesus. Jesus is the head of the church. It's so fascinating God's plan to reach us and I am truly humbled and grateful for loving God enough to respect what the Bible says about this.

 

[Franc254]

I think that's mostly spot on. God delegated to Jesus some power and authority, but power and authority over God wasn't given to Jesus. Jesus is the head of the church. It's so fascinating God's plan to reach us and I am truly humbled and grateful for loving God enough to respect what the Bible says about this.

no one has seen the father right?

 

[Runningman]

no one has seen the father right?

Just say what your point is.