Divorce...

[Gojira]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

 

[cinder]

I'll dig this up. Wrote it a long time ago when I was more active on the forums, but it's the most exhaustive study I'll be doing until I'm actually in a situation where divorce is going to apply to me personally in some form

https://christianchat.com/blogs/what-the-bible-says-about-divorce.171933/

 

[MsMediator]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

I don't think your friends are Christians if there is verbal, mental, and physical abuse going on. Maybe one is, and the other isn't.

While there is no adultery, for purposes of this discussion, let's say that one friend intends to commit adultery (date/meet a new person, etc.), I think that could be grounds for divorce as there is intent especially if the person has already made steps like communicating with other people. Also, the definition of adultery is lusting over someone other than spouse (based on the New Testament), not necessarily physical adultery.

If there is physical or sexual abuse, I would definitely divorce. (That's just what I would do). With verbal and mental abuse, I would go through a period of separation first. During this time, if he commits adultery, I would divorce.

 

[Gojira]

I'll dig this up. Wrote it a long time ago when I was more active on the forums, but it's the most exhaustive study I'll be doing until I'm actually in a situation where divorce is going to apply to me personally in some form

https://christianchat.com/blogs/what-the-bible-says-about-divorce.171933/

Well... let's hope that time never comes.

 

[Gojira]

Interesting responses... I have two Christian friends in awful marriages, and I want to see them get relief, but at the same time not sin against God. So, I want to hear what people say.

I will look at your blog @cinder and, @MsMediator , I think by that mental standard all of us may be guilty then of giving our spouses grounds for divorce. I don't think most of us could stay married more than a week. But, I have trouble arguing against your thought.

I also am inclined to agree that their spouses are not saved. My friend's wife never seems to admit to any logs in her own eyes, and uses the Bible as a weapon against her husband. Who does that but the accuser?? Oh, and she's attacked him. Because of CA law, the police said there's nothing they can do unless he has marks on his body. But, if he hits her back, it's over for him.

And, my other friend's husband never expresses gratitude or praises her, sex seems to be about what he wants, he has physically dragged her around, never seems to have a devotional period with God and almost never attends church with her, puts up a spiritual face when he does, and his favorite verse appears to be the one where wives are told to submit to their husbands. He was Mr Charm School during their courting period, and he did a 180° after the wedding, showing a completely different face. Her family was very much taken aback by his turnaround, but he was now the husband and (if I remember correctly) reminded them that there was nothing they could do. He's a dirtbag. But, is this grounds for a Godly divorce?

I know God hates divorce. But, does He like these marriages?

 

[kinda]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

Sorry to hear about your friends, did you ask them about their vows? You know, for better or for worse? Maybe they should change marriage vows to, for better or divorce?!?! It wouldn't be to far from the truth many times.

"Until death do us part"? Ha!

I really believe marriage isn't really for most people, but sexual drive corrupts, good decision making.

Why do I say this?

I think it's possible that marriage is broken down into marri and age. Let's break this down shall we?

"Marri" means foolishness, nonsense, and insanity.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/marri

Next we have the word "age", which means, length of time.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/age

Now if we combine both Marri and age, we shall get marriage, which appears to mean a time of foolishness, nonsense, and insanity.

Ask your friends to see if the the time the spent in marriage, seemed to be like a time of foolishness, nonsense, and insanity...

Yeah, I also heard the hidden secret, that marriage is really bad, but it's not really talked about. I remember this one customer told me a long time ago told me, "never get married". His wife was right there next to him, and then his wife said, "don't tell him that". lol

Or maybe we can goto the wise words of Wayne Campbell...



I also remember my old pastor long ago said, "I don't do marriage counseling". One of friends told me not to long ago, don't get married, unless you want kids. Alrighty then!

For those who happily married, this post wasn't meant to insult anyone, but just a perspective of someone deciding not to get married.

 

[JohnDB]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

Polygamy was allowed when God said he hates divorce....and Polygamy was mandated in Israeli Law in certain circumstances.

So the obvious extension is that God was saying something about "put away" wives and that its being worse than divorce....

And there was no reason to divorce a woman who was sexually unfaithful...she was regularly stoned to death....no Divorce necessary.

 

[NOV25]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

The guidelines for divorce are laid out In Deuteronomy 24:1-4 Jesus never changed those guidelines.
People get hung up on Jesus’s words in the gospels because they don’t understand the context. Pharisee types were manipulating the law, they were sending out their wives without the proper divorce certificate for everything under the sun. They did this for many reasons. One main reason was to avoid paying the ketubah (sort of like alimony) which was only payable to the wife if she held the keriythuth (divorce certificate) A form of this is still practiced today by some Jewish folks.

So essentially Jesus was saying, the only time you should send her away without the divorce cert is in the case of “sexual infidelity”.

There’s a lot more to it of course but this should help those seeking truth on the topic get started. Just be careful, some english translators got a little divorce happy, they seemingly put the word divorce in everyplace they could.
Should really have a concordance for an in depth study, some free ones on the App Store.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

God hates it. But, would He tell a woman (or a man) who is being abused by their spouse, either mentally or physically or both, that they must remain married?

Jesus gave one out: sexual infidelity. But, I have two solid Christian friends (one man and one woman) who are starting the process of breaking away from their spouses. As far as I know, sexual unfaithfulness is not reason. But, rather, years of mental and physical abuse is.

What say you all?

The Lord is able to bring peace to the couples and reconciliation, but they must be willing to obey the Lord. They first need to Trust Christ as their Savior. Then they need to follow Him by the first step of obedience by getting baptized in deep water. Then they should become actively faithful in a good Biblically sound local church. God changes us from the inside out and He does so through His Word. With God anything is possible. As a friend, I would personally try to lead them to Christ right now. If you aren't comfortable with that, no worries, feel free to share my gospel links like the one above. I recommend you follow up with questions to see if they understand and prayed in faith afterwards.

I know of a formerly mean and wicked coal miner. He was physically abusive to his wife prior to my acquaintance with him. After he and his wife got saved, they started attending an Independent Baptist church and started growing. They were transformed and had a remarkable marriage from that point forward. He started a church in an out of business building that was once a bar he used to go to. All things are possible with the Lord.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The Lord is able to bring peace to the couples and reconciliation, but they must be willing to obey the Lord. They first need to Trust Christ as their Savior. Then they need to follow Him by the first step of obedience by getting baptized in deep water. Then they should become actively faithful in a good Biblically sound local church. God changes us from the inside out and He does so through His Word. With God anything is possible. As a friend, I would personally try to lead them to Christ right now. If you aren't comfortable with that, no worries, feel free to share my gospel links like the one above. I recommend you follow up with questions to see if they understand and prayed in faith afterwards.

I know of a formerly mean and wicked coal miner. He was physically abusive to his wife prior to my acquaintance with him. After he and his wife got saved, they started attending an Independent Baptist church and started growing. They were transformed and had a remarkable marriage from that point forward. He started a church in an out of business building that was once a bar he used to go to. All things are possible with the Lord.

I just went back and re-read your post gojira. You said they were solid christians. They might be but I would ask if they are 100% sure if they were to die today if they would be in heaven. See my gospel posts for details. Even if they are saved, it doesn't sound like one or more are solid.

If there's a threat of life or grave serious injury, then the woman needs to get to the parents or her brother's house for protection for now. If a man, he needs to talk to her Dad about his daughter to start with, IMHO. There's no easy solution most of the time and there's no way we have to know if there's a accusation of emotional abuse because of XYZ, etc. If they are truly Christian, they should get their butts in a good church yesterday and humble themselves. Both of them. No forum advice can substitute for sound Biblical counseling from the pulpit of a good pastor and help of the Lord.

 

[mustaphadrink]

A sad subject in reality. In my social studies I have learned that Christians are divorcing at a similar rate as the non-believer is and in some cases more. What you might say it trivialises marriage when in fact marriage is a covenant not to be broken. I have been married 52 years and if I am tempted to throw the towel in and I have been, my vows on my wedding day come back to me. "Until death us do part." Divorce to me is not death us do part.

The reality is marriage is about two imperfect people coming together to share their lives, warts and all. The warts do not disappear just because you are married. All they do is show up imperfections in each other and give us a chance to eat humble pie and not be selfish and do things "my way."

If you want to know if you have succeeded. look at your children. My daughter is an angel and would do anything for you and does. My son is a lovable ratbag and sometimes I wonder where did I go wrong. But there is one thing I know he would give you the shirt of his back if you were in need.

Now do you want to do things biblically or selfishly? If you want to do things biblically, and they are commands not suggestions. in a case like the one posted here, read 1 Corinthians 7 v 10. the wife must not separate from her husband BUT if she does, she remains unmarried or becomes reconciled with her husband and the husband must NOT divorce his wife. After the breakdown of the marriage God can still do wonders and bring reconciliation.

In Like 16 v 18 Jesus said if anyone divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So there you have it. Sounds like divorce is a no no. But separation is OK as long as you do not marry again unless it is you coming together with your spouse again. God has never broken a covenant with anyone and due to the fact that we are taking on the God nature when we are born again and become part of his family, the same applies to us.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Ran out of time. Doing things selfishly. Get divorced. To divorce is like asking "what is more important. What God says or what I want? "
if you truly want the best in all situations regarding marriage you do not get divorced in any circumstance as God can change things even in the worst situations. If he can't then he is not God.

 

[JohnDB]

A sad subject in reality. In my social studies I have learned that Christians are divorcing at a similar rate as the non-believer is and in some cases more. What you might say it trivialises marriage when in fact marriage is a covenant not to be broken. I have been married 52 years and if I am tempted to throw the towel in and I have been, my vows on my wedding day come back to me. "Until death us do part." Divorce to me is not death us do part.

The reality is marriage is about two imperfect people coming together to share their lives, warts and all. The warts do not disappear just because you are married. All they do is show up imperfections in each other and give us a chance to eat humble pie and not be selfish and do things "my way."

If you want to know if you have succeeded. look at your children. My daughter is an angel and would do anything for you and does. My son is a lovable ratbag and sometimes I wonder where did I go wrong. But there is one thing I know he would give you the shirt of his back if you were in need.

Now do you want to do things biblically or selfishly? If you want to do things biblically, and they are commands not suggestions. in a case like the one posted here, read 1 Corinthians 7 v 10. the wife must not separate from her husband BUT if she does, she remains unmarried or becomes reconciled with her husband and the husband must NOT divorce his wife. After the breakdown of the marriage God can still do wonders and bring reconciliation.

In Like 16 v 18 Jesus said if anyone divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So there you have it. Sounds like divorce is a no no. But separation is OK as long as you do not marry again unless it is you coming together with your spouse again. God has never broken a covenant with anyone and due to the fact that we are taking on the God nature when we are born again and become part of his family, the same applies to us.

Those statistics about Christians getting divorced are wrong and skewed.

Actually newer stats show that Christians who attend church on a regular basis are much much less likely to get divorced than heathen couples...especially when counting the number of heathen couples who just live together for a year or more without a certificate of marriage.

The divorce rate among the heathen is staggering. So much so that its a wonder that the heathen actually stay married at all.

Just saying....

Those couples who actively attend church and get involved in their community in this way have a much better chance of success in their married lives. The actual divorce rate for those who are active in church is less than 5%.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Those statistics about Christians getting divorced are wrong and skewed.

Actually newer stats show that Christians who attend church on a regular basis are much much less likely to get divorced than heathen couples...especially when counting the number of heathen couples who just live together for a year or more without a certificate of marriage.

The divorce rate among the heathen is staggering. So much so that its a wonder that the heathen actually stay married at all.

Just saying....

Those couples who actively attend church and get involved in their community in this way have a much better chance of success in their married lives. The actual divorce rate for those who are active in church is less than 5%.

Thankyou for your opinion. Mine was arrived at after copious research for a university degree in the subject.

 

[JohnDB]

Thankyou for your opinion. Mine was arrived at after copious research for a university degree in the subject.

Then show a link to the publication....publish or perish and let me review your data and collection methods.

 

[mustaphadrink]

Then show a link to the publication....publish or perish and let me review your data and collection methods.

Obviously you have not been to uni. To produce a paper on a subject you have many references, usually other books or papers on a subject. There is no ONE publication.

As to data and collection methods. i used the same as everyone else which was set out by the uni.

 

[NOV25]

A sad subject in reality. In my social studies I have learned that Christians are divorcing at a similar rate as the non-believer is and in some cases more. What you might say it trivialises marriage when in fact marriage is a covenant not to be broken. I have been married 52 years and if I am tempted to throw the towel in and I have been, my vows on my wedding day come back to me. "Until death us do part." Divorce to me is not death us do part.

The reality is marriage is about two imperfect people coming together to share their lives, warts and all. The warts do not disappear just because you are married. All they do is show up imperfections in each other and give us a chance to eat humble pie and not be selfish and do things "my way."

If you want to know if you have succeeded. look at your children. My daughter is an angel and would do anything for you and does. My son is a lovable ratbag and sometimes I wonder where did I go wrong. But there is one thing I know he would give you the shirt of his back if you were in need.

Now do you want to do things biblically or selfishly? If you want to do things biblically, and they are commands not suggestions. in a case like the one posted here, read 1 Corinthians 7 v 10. the wife must not separate from her husband BUT if she does, she remains unmarried or becomes reconciled with her husband and the husband must NOT divorce his wife. After the breakdown of the marriage God can still do wonders and bring reconciliation.

In Like 16 v 18 Jesus said if anyone divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery and the man who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So there you have it. Sounds like divorce is a no no. But separation is OK as long as you do not marry again unless it is you coming together with your spouse again. God has never broken a covenant with anyone and due to the fact that we are taking on the God nature when we are born again and become part of his family, the same applies to us.

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 divorce and remarriage provision is made and guidelines set by God for fallen man.
Luke 16:17 it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void.
In the very next verse Luke 16:18 Christ voids the Deuteronomy 24 law?

Anytime we come across a situation like this in scripture there’s a gold nugget buried. Happy hunting to all.

 

[JohnDB]

Obviously you have not been to uni. To produce a paper on a subject you have many references, usually other books or papers on a subject. There is no ONE publication.

As to data and collection methods. i used the same as everyone else which was set out by the uni.

If you had done the extensive research you claimed at Uni...the reason is to publish a paper which then gets published in another publication.

Which means that in order to get published in a respected journal it first gets peer reviewed (also listed) and reviewed by your mentor (also listed) and the supporting post-docs also get listed in a proscribed fashion for credits.

So...
Since you don't understand anything I just said and refuse to link to anything you just said....your assertions are without merit as not only does personal experience of those in regular attendance of church bear out in opposition but so does recent research in this subject.

 

[Gojira]

The Lord is able to bring peace to the couples and reconciliation, but they must be willing to obey the Lord. They first need to Trust Christ as their Savior. Then they need to follow Him by the first step of obedience by getting baptized in deep water. Then they should become actively faithful in a good Biblically sound local church. God changes us from the inside out and He does so through His Word. With God anything is possible. As a friend, I would personally try to lead them to Christ right now. If you aren't comfortable with that, no worries, feel free to share my gospel links like the one above. I recommend you follow up with questions to see if they understand and prayed in faith afterwards.

I know of a formerly mean and wicked coal miner. He was physically abusive to his wife prior to my acquaintance with him. After he and his wife got saved, they started attending an Independent Baptist church and started growing. They were transformed and had a remarkable marriage from that point forward. He started a church in an out of business building that was once a bar he used to go to. All things are possible with the Lord.

The two seeking separations are Christians. It is their spouses who's salvation I seriously question, since neither exhibits fruit, and are abusive towards the Christians I've been talking about. The abusing wife thinks she can do no wrong. Her "sin" was marrying this man who gives her so much trouble (that she threatens divorce, affairs, lunges at him with forks), and the man doesn't admit to any wrong either. He expects his wife to be a slave for his personal needs and enjoyment -- based on the words of the lady, but I generally do trust her, a lot.

 

[Gojira]

Deuteronomy 24:1-4 divorce and remarriage provision is made and guidelines set by God for fallen man.
Luke 16:17 it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for one dot of the law to become void.
In the very next verse Luke 16:18 Christ voids the Deuteronomy 24 law?

Anytime we come across a situation like this in scripture there’s a gold nugget buried. Happy hunting to all.

Hmm... I am praying for my friends, that they get proper guidance and wisdom through Godly counsel. I cannot start taking this up in a personal study, but I sure do hope you're right.