Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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They are already condemned on the condition they didn’t believe in Jesus. This is clear it’s talking about rejecting Jesus, not being ignorant of Jesus, such as a baby for example.
The New Testament talks about those who reject Christ coming under judgement, not those who are ignorant of Christ.
Again, people aren’t born under condemnation.
John 3
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”
The New Testament talks about those who reject Christ coming under judgement, not those who are ignorant of Christ.
Again, people aren’t born under condemnation.
John 3
36Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”
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Will take a look, be back later. 
James 1:21
Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and every expression of evil, and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save your souls.
James 2:1
My brothers, as you hold out your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, do not show favoritism.
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Romans 11 is speaking of individual Gentiles. Having supposedly read it, I’m surprised you missed this. For example, if you become an unbeliever that doesn’t effect my status as a branch grafted in.
Here’s a quote from Romans 11:
Romans 11
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
Here’s a quote from Romans 11:
Romans 11
19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20That is correct: They were broken off because of unbelief, but you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, He will certainly not spare you either.
John 15
1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
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1 Tim 4:16
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Perseverance to the end is necessary for Salvation. Justification is instantaneous. Sanctification is a process. Perseverance in the Faith - and thus Salvation - is a Grace God gives you after you mature in your walk with Him, not instantly as with justification.
Reference: 1 Cor 9
The Need for Self-Discipline
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
God Bless.
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
Perseverance to the end is necessary for Salvation. Justification is instantaneous. Sanctification is a process. Perseverance in the Faith - and thus Salvation - is a Grace God gives you after you mature in your walk with Him, not instantly as with justification.
Reference: 1 Cor 9
The Need for Self-Discipline
24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
God Bless.
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You’re saying something other than what the Bible says. Jesus only denies people before His Father who deny Him before people. Therefore someone who is just born isn’t denying Jesus and they aren’t denied. This is conditional upon denial/rejection.
Matthew 10
33But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven.
Matthew 10
33But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father in heaven.
Salvation is Jesus on the Cross, You are mixing discipleship with sanctification, From the moment we receive God’s gift of salvation, He begins to work in our lives through His Holy Spirit to make us more like Jesus, we are called to cooperate through obedience but Sanctification is of God, Discipleship is what we can do but it can only happen after Salvation
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If Matthew 28 is step by step, then discipleship comes as the first step:
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
1. Make disciples of all nations
2. Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
3. Teach them to obey all Jesus has commanded
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
1. Make disciples of all nations
2. Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit
3. Teach them to obey all Jesus has commanded
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"Hebrews is for, well, the Hebrews" = Jews, Under covenants,
and in the Great Tribulation!
For the "Body Of Christ, Under GRACE Through faith" (Eph 2:8) =
Romans - Philemon!! See especially Romans 11:6!!! Amen?
Precious friend, so you do not believe That The ONE-Time Infinite
Sacrifice Of The Eternal God, And Saviour, Jesus Christ, Is An:
ALL-Sufficient Payment For The "PENALTY" of our wicked sins?
Do you believe it is INsufficient, and that "we HAVE TO make up
the DIFFERENCE"? Of course, According to Scripture that would
require us "pay the Eternal Debt we owe To God," which is:
Totally BY HIS Grace through faith = 100%
OR:
we work for Eternal Life, trusting Him 000%, ending
with . us . PAYING . our . own . DEBT ... 100% = ETERNAL Death!!
-----------------------------
After we are ETERNALLY Saved By His MERCY, Then that is when
we should humbly proceed to submit and "serve Him in love,"
(not FEAR) and Will Be Rewarded for "GOOD works!" Amen?:
In God's Dispensation Of Grace/Mystery (Rom - Phm)
"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and
every man Shall Receive his own reward according to his
own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye
are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a
wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another
buildeth Thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth
Thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than That is
laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.
Now IF any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work
Shall Be Made Manifest: for The Day Shall Declare it,
because it Shall Be Revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
he Shall Receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
BUT he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
(1Co 3:8-15) Amen?
-------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
and in the Great Tribulation!
For the "Body Of Christ, Under GRACE Through faith" (Eph 2:8) =
Romans - Philemon!! See especially Romans 11:6!!! Amen?
Precious friend, so you do not believe That The ONE-Time Infinite
Sacrifice Of The Eternal God, And Saviour, Jesus Christ, Is An:
ALL-Sufficient Payment For The "PENALTY" of our wicked sins?
Do you believe it is INsufficient, and that "we HAVE TO make up
the DIFFERENCE"? Of course, According to Scripture that would
require us "pay the Eternal Debt we owe To God," which is:
ETERNAL Condemnation!:
Rom 4:4 "Now to him that worketh is the
reward not reckoned of Grace, but of DEBT"
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but
believeth on Him That Justifieth the ungodly,
his faith is counted for righteousness.
Either we "trust Him And HIS ALL-SUFFICIENT Sacrifice" Totally BY HIS Grace through faith = 100%
OR:
we work for Eternal Life, trusting Him 000%, ending
with . us . PAYING . our . own . DEBT ... 100% = ETERNAL Death!!
-----------------------------
After we are ETERNALLY Saved By His MERCY, Then that is when
we should humbly proceed to submit and "serve Him in love,"
(not FEAR) and Will Be Rewarded for "GOOD works!" Amen?:
In God's Dispensation Of Grace/Mystery (Rom - Phm)
"Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and
every man Shall Receive his own reward according to his
own labour. For we are labourers together with God: ye
are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
According to The Grace of God which is given unto me, as a
wise masterbuilder, I have laid The Foundation, and another
buildeth Thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth
Thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than That is
laid, Which Is Jesus Christ.
Now IF any man build upon This Foundation gold, silver,
precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work
Shall Be Made Manifest: for The Day Shall Declare it,
because it Shall Be Revealed by fire; and the fire shall
try every man's work of what sort it is.
If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon,
he Shall Receive a reward.
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss:
BUT he himself Shall Be Saved; yet so as by fire."
(1Co 3:8-15) Amen?
-------------------
Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II).
Grace, Peace, And JOY!...
Notice that is to disciples, so yes they should go and make disciples and baptize in Name of Jesus after they are saved of course, that doesn't mean every one they came across became a disciple, The defining point is you must be born again, Baptism of the holy spirit, the new creation in Christ, that must happen before you die or it will be too late
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We can test the validity of that by just examining what Jesus did. He discipled the 12 before they received salvation because that's the model to follow. Then Jesus confirmed it again in Matthew 28:19.
Salvation doesn't come before discipleship, according to the Bible. Got a verse that says otherwise?
Salvation doesn't come before discipleship, according to the Bible. Got a verse that says otherwise?
I have many, have you heard about the thief on the cross, justification is by faith and faith is credited as rightousness, all you need to do is look how things naturally progressed to see Gods offer of Salvation, think....Judas killed himself before Jesus had died as a sacrifice for his sins and before Jesus asked his Father to forgive him, why did he do that? you say he was a deciple so logically according to you discipleship cant be a contributing factor either way
Speaking of the thief on the cross, how did he have any awareness of the Kingdom?
Luke 23
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!”
Wasn't the thief preached to, had heard something, or been discipled in some way? Does it imply Jesus said something to him or that he had heard about the kingdom of God before or during being crucified?
It shows that the thief on the cross had some exposure to the gospel of the kingdom of God already and was a believer. We can only speculate how.
Again, discipleship comes before salvation. A disciple is a pupil, a learner. Many who are first will be last, many who are last will be first.
Any verses that say otherwise?
Luke 23
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when You come into Your kingdom!”
Wasn't the thief preached to, had heard something, or been discipled in some way? Does it imply Jesus said something to him or that he had heard about the kingdom of God before or during being crucified?
It shows that the thief on the cross had some exposure to the gospel of the kingdom of God already and was a believer. We can only speculate how.
Again, discipleship comes before salvation. A disciple is a pupil, a learner. Many who are first will be last, many who are last will be first.
Any verses that say otherwise?
Yes sure the whole nation where taught scripture from there youth, even Saul thinking he was blameless under the law was persecuting the church, But when he saw Jesus things changed, He became Paul and was given the Gospel of Grace to take to the whole world
Sure faith comes by hearing the word of God, And without faith it is impossible to please God, The work of God is that we believe on him who he sent (Jesus), Faith is credited as righteousness, Justified by faith, Jesus is our righteousness
So i agree, but in both cases with Saul and the thief how did they react to seeing Jesus
Think if the weight of the sin of the world being put on Jesus, and if he had one sin in himself he would not be able to raise from the dead let along take someone to paradise, What was the confession of the thieves hearts, they where both very different,
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
Jesus obviously accepted his faith
Sure faith comes by hearing the word of God, And without faith it is impossible to please God, The work of God is that we believe on him who he sent (Jesus), Faith is credited as righteousness, Justified by faith, Jesus is our righteousness
So i agree, but in both cases with Saul and the thief how did they react to seeing Jesus
Think if the weight of the sin of the world being put on Jesus, and if he had one sin in himself he would not be able to raise from the dead let along take someone to paradise, What was the confession of the thieves hearts, they where both very different,
And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”
Jesus obviously accepted his faith
They may have been taught the scriptures, but they didn't understand it the way Jesus explained it. Jesus said He is the Messiah and belief in Him as such is required for salvation. The only way someone would know this is if they were discipled first.
John 8
24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
Saul, who became Paul, was discipled according to the steps in Great Commission of Matthew 28:19 before he received salvation. It's all in Acts 9.
John 8
24I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”
Saul, who became Paul, was discipled according to the steps in Great Commission of Matthew 28:19 before he received salvation. It's all in Acts 9.
Ok....well, I hope you are being serious....the context was sanctification and discipleship, Not the dictionary meaning of the word = “student” or “learner.” or “follower,” behind those terms people can turn away, The point you jumped in and tried to twist was discipleship in sanctification, Being conformed to the image of Christ, that can't happen until you are made a new creation in Christ, that's why Jesus said you must be born again
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