"The Anatomy...

[ForestGreenCook]

It is your assertion to prove. Give us a Scripture that says God does not plan.

You are trying to escape the the fact that there are no scriptures that says God plans things. You have been indoctrinated in hearing too many times about "God's plan of salvation".. There are numerous scriptures teaching that God Purposes things.

 

[Magenta]

You are trying to escape the the fact that there are no scriptures that says God plans things. You have been indoctrinated in hearing too many times about "God's plan of salvation".. There are numerous scriptures teaching that God Purposes things.

You are making groundless assumptions and assertions about me. Let's
have the verses that say God does not plan things, since you claim it a fact.

God does not plan things.

Well? Where are they? Are you trying to escape the the fact that
there are no Scriptures that say God does not plan things?

While you are at it, please answer my other question as well.

 

[Cameron143]

You are trying to escape the the fact that there are no scriptures that says God plans things. You have been indoctrinated in hearing too many times about "God's plan of salvation".. There are numerous scriptures teaching that God Purposes things.

Jeremiah 29:11...For I know the plans I have for you...

 

[Magenta]

Jeremiah 29:11...For I know the plans I have for you...

KJ-onlyist will say something along the lines of: that is a corrupted version...

However, God does invite us to reason with Him

And it does stand to reason that One Who purposes has plans.

Otherwise, it is all willy-nilly

Jesus' death on the cross to pay the sin debt and reconcile us to God was not willy-nilly

 

[Cameron143]

KJ-onlyist will say something along the lines of: that is a corrupted version...

God does invite us to reason with Him

And it does stand to reason that One Who purposes has plans.

Otherwise, it is all willy-nilly

Jesus' death on the cross to reconcile us to God was not willy-nilly

If you are going to be reasonable you are never going to make friends. 🤣

 

[Amosathar]

Would you comment a bit more on predestination regarding those who lose their salvation?

Ephesians 5:3-4
3But among you, as is proper among the saints, there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk, or crude joking, which are out of character, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure, or greedy person (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

So what about those among the Ephesian church who could have been immoral, impure, or greedy losing their predestination to any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God?

Firstly, only God knows the true state of any man's heart and whether or not he has salvation, this is not for us to judge as there is no way we could know. Sure we may judge people by their fruit, but we cannot know them as God knows them. That's why we are to encourage and edify people to live a Godly life, not condemn them. It is God who convicts and chastens them in love to see change within them.

Secondly I see the passage in Ephesians as a warning to not be those things, people are only those particular things if that is the way they are still living at the end of their life, without confession of sins, asking for forgiveness, separated from God with a hardened heart. But even beyond that, God is the judge, he is the one that sits upon the throne. All we can do is do our best to live as Christ and encourage others to live that way and abstain from those things mentioned in the verses above. Bringing people to salvation is a work of the Holy Spirit and is not what we should be focused on. Our responsibility is to allow God to use us to plant the seed and water the seed, then God will call those who are to harvest the seed.

 

[Runningman]

Can you give me a scripture that says God plans things?

It seems your pretense is purely semantical. The KJV translators never used the word “plan” as far as I can tell, but there’s a difference between a word being absent in the KJV and the very meaning of the word itself being used repeatedly.

So what is a plan and does God have them, by definition of the word?

Plan
1. a detailed proposal for doing or achieving something.

2. an intention or decision about what one is going to do.

3. a detailed map or diagram.

I’m not going to post full passages, but key verses instead.

God did all three:

1. Exodus 32:14
14And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

2. Genesis 6:17
17And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

3. Genesis 6:14,15
14Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch. 15And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.

 

[soberxp]

Can you give me a scripture that says God plans things?

Isaiah 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

[VARob]

I am afraid that most of well intended children of God do not rightly divide the word of truth.

Does this include committed Calvinists?

 

[Inquisitor]

God does not plan things. God purposes things.

God did not purpose to eternally deliver all mankind to heaven. God purposed (choose) an elect people before the foundation of the world. (Eph 1:4). God purposed Jesus to be a sacrifice for the redemption of his elect's sins on the cross, and secure their inheritance of eternal heaven, (John 6:37-39) as his adopted children. (Eph 1:5).

The Jews were the chosen, elect nation of God, what happened to them?

 

[Jocund]

The Jews were the chosen, elect nation of God, what happened to them?

I've never heard of the concept that Israel as a nation was elect. Is there a passage for that?

Spiritual Israel in Christ is elect. The house of Israel in Christ is elect. I can't find a single passage that states "the nation of Israel" would be elect.

 

[soberxp]

I've never heard of the concept that Israel as a nation was elect. Is there a passage for that?

Spiritual Israel in Christ is elect. The house of Israel in Christ is elect. I can't find a single passage that states "the nation of Israel" would be elect.

God chose Israel, but not all Israel chose God.
So the Bible says, God chose you, not you chose God.

 

[Snacks]

John 3:16 sure seems like a solid plan.

 

[soberxp]

John 3:16 sure seems like a solid plan.

The point is that God allows anything to happen, and wants yourself Take responsibility boldly.
Otherwise, obey his words.
In fact, it seems that personal rewards have been given.
Fair enough.
The spread of the gospel may be just a joke.
People choose their own way of life,Do what they want to do.Evil or good.
They got what they wanted.
Poor NPC The victims,They're somewhere in between.
So which one do you choose?
Of course, the way God gave us.even kneels must also walk it.would rather laugh and cry.

 

[pottersclay]

...Of God's Plan Of Salvation

“To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world​

unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;​

and hath committed unto us The Word of Reconciliation.”​

—II Cor. 5:19​

A new teaching has recently been introduced into Grace circles that has caused a great deal of concern among the brethren, ourselves included. Essentially it is being proposed that the sins of the world were forgiven
when God reconciled the world to Himself...

...If this is true, then we are left with this conclusion: the terrorists who plotted and carried out the evil attack on the World Trade Center, where
nearly 3,000 souls perished, will never be judged for their sins against humanity...

...Universal Reconciliation/Universalism is the teaching that God is going
to save all the unsaved in the end, including Satan and his fallen host...

...upon further investigation it is actually a serious departure from what
The Scriptures teach on the subject...
"

View attachment 27054
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Grace, Peace, and JOY!

6I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

I believe the offer of GODs forgivness is given for every soul on this earth.
Forgiveness is found in CHRIST alone and unless the offering of total surrender to his authority is agreed upon and offered up by a repentive heart it is not acknowledged.
As Joshua said choose this day whom you will serve. Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments.
Universal forgiveness is offered but not given. It is only given to those that believe, repent, and accept.

 

[Magenta]

If you are going to be reasonable you are never going to make friends. 🤣

Throughout Scripture God's desire is the redemption of humanity, and for the people of God to have
fellowship and eternal life with Him. God desires us to prosper and grow spiritually in Christ.

The spread of the gospel may be just a joke.

It is no joke. Life is found in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[Snacks]

Poor NPC The victims,They're somewhere in between.
So which one do you choose?
Of course, the way God gave us.even kneels must also walk it.would rather laugh and cry.

I apologize, I don’t know what you mean.

 

[Seeker47]

So little understanding of God's true nature. God is both inside and outside time, this is how God remains the same yesterday, today and forever. Time is a concept only we perceive as passing, but to God it has all already happened and he chooses to interact with each of us in every single moment of our existence. But at the very moment when God created the universe, to him the end of the world had already happened. He knew in that moment every thought and deed and decision that every human in the full history of mankind would ever make.

Those who are "predestined" are those who God already knows will believe the truth of the Gospel and accept salvation. So yes he desires that none should perish, but in his omniscient, he knows those who will not admit they are sinners, ask for forgiveness or accept his free gift of salvation and eternal life. Just as he knew mankind would fall and he would need to make a way of reconciliation. Why then do we need to preach the Gospel to all people? Because this knowledge of who the predestined are belongs only to God and since we don't know who those people are that will accept, then we need to reach out to everyone and let God do the rest.

Jesus sacrifice was once and for all, yes he took the punishment for all sin from mankind from then until the end of the world. So because of that sacrifice, the forgiveness and eternal life is available for everyone, BUT, they must ask for it to receive it otherwise they remain in an unforgiven state, eternally separated from God. They must be willing to accept who Jesus is, his sacrifice and the reason why he had to do it. Once again, from God's perspective he has offered this gift to all mankind without exception, even terrorists, but not everyone is going to accept it. We may think that a serial murderer or a terrorist should face judgement for what they have done, that they shouldn't get to be forgiven or receive eternal life after what they have done, but that's because we don't truly understand God's grace and mercy. For all have sinned, we have missed the mark, and fall short of the Glory of God. Sin is missing the mark, anything that is unrighteous is sin and this idea that murder is worse than lying is a manmade concept. Either sin will separate you from God, either will hurt God because he said "Be Holy for I am Holy"

All of us, even Christians hurt God as his children every day when we neglect him, we forget to include him in our everyday lives or refuse to listen and obey or even willingly sin when we know we shouldn't. God grieves and is saddened by this and at the lengths that some of mankind goes to, to do hurt or commit evil, but we have to trust the sovereignty of God that he knows what is best and how it should be handled after all it's his universe, we just live in it, he has no obligation to justify himself to us.

Outstanding post! I think your first paragraph is critical to understand our faith, and yet so little discussed or acknowledged. Little makes sense until we begin to grasp the knowledge that God is eternal. Without that knowledge we put him in little boxes that are nice and neat, but he will have no part of it!

 

[soberxp]

I apologize, I don’t know what you mean.

I mean those who live in lies, and innocent people who are murdered, poor people, and people who suffer injustice. They are caught between good and evil.
These people suffered disaster because of the selfish desire of evil people, and the evil people already got their rewards But these people did not get the rewards,These experiences are not what they hope.

Luck 16:19-25

We enjoy the peace from God, we should more and more choose God's Word to obey.

 

[soberxp]

It is no joke. Life is found in Jesus Christ alone.

Do you think anyone in the information age doesn't know the name of Jesus?
They just don't want to accept it because of their own selfish desires.
As far as the situation is concerned, preaching the gospel is a joke.