Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Polar]

 

[Wansvic]

.



Have you considered the possibility that your understanding of complicated
spiritual matters might be somewhat lacking? Beware thinking of yourself as
infallible and speaking for God ex cathedra.
_

There is nothing complicated about the words spoken by Peter and Ananias. They reveal the truth concerning God's purpose for water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. As Paul told Timothy, sharing with others what we ourselves have learned has the ability save ourselves as well as others. (1 Tim. 4:16)

 

[Wansvic]

now I will address this

I think DJT can speak for himself.

the spiritual reality? with water? as I said, we have engaged each other many times in times past and we are not going to ever agree unless you change your mind (little joke there)

if things were as you say, then from the age of 5 to 13 or 14 (when I was baptized in water), then I would have gone to hell since I was not baptized in water. nice.
...

That is a distortion, and is not true. There is an age of accountability that applies to all.

 

[cv5]

@cv5 Any thoughts regarding post#1079? "Actually Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16) And Peter and Ananias spoke of sins being remitted in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) This speaks to baptism being more than just a public affirmation. Yet many refuse to believe Jesus, and those whom He used to carry the life saving message. Also many refuse to accept that water baptism is to be administered in the name of the very person who was crucified to save humanity; Jesus. Relevant? According to Jesus it is. Because everyone is going to be judged by what the word actually says, not according to personal opinions. (John 12:48)"

Let me ask you this.....if the rite is administered by an unbeliever, does that make it of no effect?

 

[cv5]

However, do you not see obedience to water baptism as corresponding specifically to the NT rebirth?

Baptized by the Holy Ghost is the only effective remedy for fallen sons of Adam bro.....

 

[Webers.Home]

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• Eph 4:5 . . There is one faith, one baptism

Let's say, hypothetically; that a number of coal miners were trapped hundreds
of feet below ground by an impassible cave-in and they all died before help
arrived.

Let's say one of those miners was a Christian guy who hurriedly explained the
gospel to all involved.

Well; like it's said: there are no atheists in a fox hole. They all to a man
were overjoyed by the Christian's gospel-- the virgin birth, the crucifixion,
and the resurrection, i.e. the whole ball of wax --until he got to this point:

• Mark 16:16 . .Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever
does not believe will be condemned.

Well; there was no water down there for the men to be baptized.
_

 

[cv5]

@cv5 Any thoughts regarding post#1079? "Actually Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16) And Peter and Ananias spoke of sins being remitted in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) This speaks to baptism being more than just a public affirmation. Yet many refuse to believe Jesus, and those whom He used to carry the life saving message. Also many refuse to accept that water baptism is to be administered in the name of the very person who was crucified to save humanity; Jesus. Relevant? According to Jesus it is. Because everyone is going to be judged by what the word actually says, not according to personal opinions. (John 12:48)"

Are Roman Catholic church baptisms 100% salvific?

 

[cv5]

.
• Eph 4:5 . . There is one faith, one baptism

Let's say, hypothetically; that a number of coal miners were trapped hundreds
of feet below ground by an impassible cave-in and they all died before help
arrived.

Let's say one of those miners was a Christian guy who hurriedly explained the
gospel to all involved.

Well; like it's said: there are no atheists in a fox hole. They all to a man
were overjoyed by the Christian's gospel-- the virgin birth, the crucifixion,
and the resurrection, i.e. the whole ball of wax --until he got to this point:

• Mark 16:16 . .Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever
does not believe will be condemned.

Well; there was no water down there for the men to be baptized.
_

Same with death bed confessions. Foxholes in war. Believers in hostile nations. And many many other scenarios.

 

[cv5]

Acts of submission to the Lord are many as you say. However, do you not see obedience to water baptism as corresponding specifically to the NT rebirth? Many scriptures reveal this; such as, Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16. These scriptures make it easy to see that obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus parallels one of the requirements Jesus said is required in order for people to become born again in John 3:5.

Why cannot one baptize oneself in a pinch? No bueno?

 

[EDENgate]

Many church denominations today have different interpretations of what the Bible says concerning baptism. A good number of church officials place a strong emphasis on baptism and how it relates to salvation. Also, because of the many different denominations in this country, we have different ways of being baptized(being dipped, sprinkled, immersion, etc.). The Bible is pretty clear in defining baptism as an act of immersion. Baptize is from a Greek word meaning, "to submerge in water." Also, baptism by immersion easily identifies Christ's death, burial, and resurrection. When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, Christians are then baptized as a testimony of their faith. While some feel baptism takes on a more important role than faith alone, it is indeed important to the Christian faith but is not dependent upon salvation. Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves". As with every subject matter in scripture, we must take the entire text into account concerning baptism. Salvation is humility, repentance, and the transformation of a new person and not the product of one activity.

Acts 10:44-48 "While Peter spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all of them which heard the word". Receiving the Holy Spirit comes before baptism. Since only a truly saved person can have the Holy Spirit, it would seem that baptism, in this context wasn't needed for the household of Cornelious' to receive the gift of salvation. **Interesting to note that Paul was God's "chosen vessel" to preach the word to the gentiles, but Peter was the first of Jesus' disciples to preach to a gentile family. God chose Peter to bring the Word to Israel at the start of the ministry.

1 Peter 3:21 This is a verse that many turn to who support baptism as necessary for salvation. "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth now save us". If we stopped reading at this point, this would seem a bit confusing. Continuing, "(Not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), by the resurrection of Jesus Christ". Clearly, we can see here that baptism cannot wash away the "filth of the flesh" or sin that is in our lives, only Jesus can.

Acts 16:30-34 and Acts 18:8 All who hear and receive the Gospel of Jesus Christ are fit candidates for baptism. Hearing, believing, and being baptized is a consistent pattern for Christians.

Acts 19:1-5 Another passage that can be confusing if we focus on just one single text in the story. This was Paul's third missionary journey in which he meets some men who were "disciples", that is believers but had been baptized under John's baptism. Notice that it is recorded that they were "believers" in Christ. Their salvation was secure, but many interpret this passage as meaning the men were not saved and were the reason why Paul had to baptize them again. This was now the church age in which Jesus left us with a "comforter", that is the Holy Spirit. The men had taken the first step in the repentance of sins, but Christians are baptized for their faith in Jesus. The men were living under the Old Testament covenant. Paul recognizes this, thus he baptized them under the new covenant.

The book of Ephesians chapter two explains salvation by grace through faith very well and never mentions baptism is a means for salvation. The Grace of God is the expression of His love toward the undeserving. Those who deserve the Lake of fire, obtain Heaven. Faith is humanity's response to God's Word and His gift of salvation. Baptism is a "work" and since chapter 2 of Ephesians tells us "not of works", one can conclude that we cannot earn our way to salvation, through baptism or any other kind of "works". When a believer submits for a baptism, they are buried as a dead person, but then raised up new. They are proclaiming their faith in Jesus' death and resurrection as the means by which they are saved from the burning Lake of fire. The unbelievers should not be baptized at all, but the saved ought to be baptized as a matter of obedience(Jesus did it) and testimony. Christian baptism should be a part of their life, but to make it a means of salvation is to muddle the Gospel of Grace.

Immersion Baptism? No.

There are different Baptisms.

We are Saved by God's grace the moment we believe. The Water of Eternal Life.

 

[cv5]

@cv5 Any thoughts regarding post#1079? "Actually Jesus said he who believes and is baptized shall be saved. (Mark 16:15-16) And Peter and Ananias spoke of sins being remitted in obedience to water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) This speaks to baptism being more than just a public affirmation. Yet many refuse to believe Jesus, and those whom He used to carry the life saving message. Also many refuse to accept that water baptism is to be administered in the name of the very person who was crucified to save humanity; Jesus. Relevant? According to Jesus it is. Because everyone is going to be judged by what the word actually says, not according to personal opinions. (John 12:48)"

BTW....much of Jesus ministry had to do with reality over ritual.

 

[Webers.Home]

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Below is a popular proof text.

• Acts 22:16 . . And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and
wash away your sins, calling on His name.

I'm told there is no punctuation in the Greek manuscripts. All punctuation
that translators place in English translations is placed arbitrarily, i.e. placed
where the translators think some punctuation ought to be.

For example: the last comma in the passage above is not in the Greek. So, if
we remove it; here's how that verse would read:

"And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your
sins calling on His name."

You see; when that arbitrary comma is removed, it becomes readily
apparent that washing is obtained by means of prayer rather than by a
ritual.

• 1John 1:9 . . If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive
us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
_

 

[cv5]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2511/kjv/tr/0-1/

Inflected:καθαρίζειRoot:καθαρίζω

Strong's:G2511
Verb - Present Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
Speech:VerbTense present
Voice:Active
Mood:Indicative
Person:3rd
Person Number:Singular

Definition of "Present"
Represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.
In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

 

[Polar]

That is a distortion, and is not true. There is an age of accountability that applies to all.

well make up your mind cause the last time you we had this go round, you told me that you were not saved, even speaking in tongues, until you were water baptized

I can find that post if I have to, but I'm not making it up

and how about that Oneness business?

there is an age of accountability and I am pretty sure we are both past it

 

[DJT_47]

Bro....I DO get it. Yes, it IS an act of submission to His Lordship. Among many other things as well.

But generally, it is a public act. But not necessarily or exclusively. Such as the case of the Ethiopian eunuch of Acts 8. Even in this case there was likely an entourage to witness the act.

Act 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Nowhere is baptism described as a public act. And faith alone doesn't save according to the scriptures.

True saving faith comes BEFORE baptism. Already saved. Then the ritual.

You are wrong again and contrary yo scripture.

 

[DJT_47]

Let me ask you this.....if the rite is administered by an unbeliever, does that make it of no effect?

It's not the unbeliever that is on question. The bible says nothing about those doing the baptizing. The only thing we can glean from the bible is believers baptized others. Is it important who is doing the baptizing? The bible doesn't say whatsoever.

 

[EDENgate]

You are wrong again and contrary yo scripture.

Why do so many think God needs our help to Save us.

 

[Polar]

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2511/kjv/tr/0-1/

Inflected:καθαρίζειRoot:καθαρίζω

Strong's:G2511
Verb - Present Active Indicative - 3rd Person Singular
Speech:VerbTense present
Voice:Active
Mood:Indicative
Person:3rd
Person Number:Singular

Definition of "Present"
Represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time.
In most cases this corresponds directly with the English present tense.

I think (although not specified directly in that verse but I think elsewhere maybe?) that covers sin we are not even aware of

and keeps us from sin as well

this is a dark world but when we follow that Light of the world, we are empowered to walk through it

I can testify of times I KNOW I was kept from danger or people wanting to physically harm me

yeah...I've had a bit of an interesting life....not your average....not bragging

 

[Polar]

Why do so many think God needs our help to Save us.

sorry for the laugh smiley, but it just struck me as funny in the moment

it's the way you just 'popped' it in there

that's bad, but I used to think I was always in danger of loosing God's salvation....not fun to live that way

 

[Polar]

Just thinking of this:

36As He rode along, the people spread their cloaks on the road. 37And as He approached the descent from the Mount of Olives, the whole multitude of disciples began to praise God joyfully in a loud voice for all the miracles they had seen:

38“Blessed is the King who comes in the name of the Lord!”c

“Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”d

39But some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Him, “Teacher, rebuke Your disciples!”

40“I tell you,” He answered, “if they remain silent, the very stones will cry out.”

some of that LIVING WATER just seems to be bubbling up in me today

Also, just sunk in, that there was a 'whole MULTITUDE' of disciples! ie followers of Jesus...not just 12

huh