Speaking in Tongues

[Pilgrimshope]

The record doesn't provide a minute by minute account of everything that was said. However, the record does include action the group took indicating they were responding to gospel information provided by Paul. Their experience lines up with what was said and experienced on the Day of Pentecost when the church was birthed. (Acts 2:2-4, 38-39)

Notice that in verse 5 the group was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is a reference to water baptism. Water baptism first introduced by John was later modified in include the name of the Lord Jesus in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. This truth about baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus being water baptism is revealed in scripture; specifically in Acts 10:47-48. After being rebaptized in water, Paul's assisted in the twelve being indwelt by the Holy Ghost as evidenced by their speaking in tongues.


"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:2-6

yeah at that time in Jerusalem people from all around the regions would travel to Jerusalem to worship in the temple bekng converts from the exiles of Babylon long before that

people would come from all around making trips to Jerusalem and then return home it seems to me that they were just part of a group like that they were there when John was baptizing and were believers so of course they wanted remission of sins

it doesn’t mean they were following John as disciples like John and James were it says the entire regions were getting baptized which would include many visitors who would t have been around to hear and see what happened after with John and Jesus

it seems obvious that’s the case with those people they knew about John d baptism for remission and baptism for remission of sins but they weren’t around to hear him preaching or Jesus preaching afterwards they probably went home to thier City and Paul came Later filling in all the blanks in thier understsnding like for instance “receiving the Holy Spirit “ which they hadn’t heard of yet until now

Jerusalem was a very popular city and also the center of all Jewish worship not only those of Jerusalem but the whole regions about were filled with devout Jews and converts to Judaism theres a few encounters jesus has with gentile converts in thy gospels

Jerusalem was really important in the ancient world even at that time still before it’s destruction on ad 70 as Always just my own thinking

 

[DavidTree]

The record doesn't provide a minute by minute account of everything that was said. However, the record does include action the group took indicating they were responding to gospel information provided by Paul. Their experience lines up with what was said and experienced on the Day of Pentecost when the church was birthed. (Acts 2:2-4, 38-39)

Notice that in verse 5 the group was baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. This is a reference to water baptism. Water baptism first introduced by John was later modified in include the name of the Lord Jesus in association with Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. This truth about baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus being water baptism is revealed in scripture; specifically in Acts 10:47-48. After being rebaptized in water, Paul's assisted in the twelve being indwelt by the Holy Ghost as evidenced by their speaking in tongues.


"He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied." Acts 19:2-6

I strongly and lovingly disagree because = God disagrees = HE said so in His Word, the Scripture.

God said so and recorded for us so that we may know the Truth:

"He(Paul) said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you(disciples) believed?

Wake UP to Righteousness and the LIVING WORD of TRUTH

Peace my Brother

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are, however, very early evidences for the inclusion of Mark 16:9-20 which precede in time the above Bibles from the 300’s to 1100’s by several hundred years.

This is correct. John William Burgon has written a book called The Last Twelve Verses of Mark which conclusively proves that those verse are Scripture. In fact Codex Sinaiticus has a gap where these verses belonged. This is one of the strongest reasons why all modern bible versions should be rejected.

 

[Wansvic]

I strongly and lovingly disagree because = God disagrees = HE said so in His Word, the Scripture.

God said so and recorded for us so that we may know the Truth:

"He(Paul) said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you(disciples) believed?

Wake UP to Righteousness and the LIVING WORD of TRUTH

Peace my Brother

The structure of Paul's question indicates he assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet.

Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ. Paul's assistance in sharing the complete truth resulted in the twelve acquiring what God longs to give everyone of us; His indwelling presence.

 

[Wansvic]

This is correct. John William Burgon has written a book called The Last Twelve Verses of Mark which conclusively proves that those verse are Scripture. In fact Codex Sinaiticus has a gap where these verses belonged. This is one of the strongest reasons why all modern bible versions should be rejected.

I don't recall hearing of the book, intent to check it out. Thanks for the info.!

 

[DavidTree]

The structure of Paul's question indicates he assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet.

Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ. Paul's assistance in sharing the complete truth resulted in the twelve acquiring what God longs to give everyone of us; His indwelling presence.

You gave a incorrect application and therefore an incorrect conclusion.

Follow the Scriptural Truth about Salvation = beginning in Genesis.

Follow the Truth in Acts.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Peace

 

[Wansvic]

You gave a incorrect application and therefore an incorrect conclusion.

Follow the Scriptural Truth about Salvation = beginning in Genesis.

Follow the Truth in Acts.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.
Proverbs 30:5-6

Peace

I did not add anything to Paul's question as recorded in God's word. "Have you received the Holy Ghost SINCE you believed?" Acts 19:1. Clearly Paul assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet. And as the scripture you reference says "Every word of God is flawless..." That would include the words in Acts 19:1 and what they reveal.

Continue to be blessed.

 

[DavidTree]

Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ.

I did not add anything to Paul's question as recorded in God's word. And as the scripture for reference says "Every word of God is flawless..." That would include what Paul's question reveals.

Continue to be blessed.

Let us SEE

You said Truth here = "The structure of Paul's question indicates he assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet."

You said error here = "Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ."

We are Saved by the Spirit of God when we believe =
"He(Paul) said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you(disciples) believed?"

The believing disciples knew the Lord Jesus Christ.
The preaching of the Second Promise of the Father was withheld from them = "“we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Paul never said to them believe on the LORD for Salvation, but only to be baptised in the Name of Christ to recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which they did not know of = Holy Spirit Baptism.
AND
God explained to us why.

Peace Brother

 

[Wansvic]

Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ.

Let us SEE

You said Truth here = "The structure of Paul's question indicates he assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet."

You said error here = "Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ."

We are Saved by the Spirit of God when we believe =
"He(Paul) said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you(disciples) believed?"

The believing disciples knew the Lord Jesus Christ.
The preaching of the Second Promise of the Father was withheld from them = "“we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Paul never said to them believe on the LORD for Salvation, but only to be baptised in the Name of Christ to recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which they did not know of = Holy Spirit Baptism.
AND
God explained to us why.

Peace Brother

Again, you are bypassing what Paul's initial question reveals. The question is a separate issue than what transpired afterward.

 

[Wansvic]

Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ...

You said error here = "Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ."
...

See Romans 8:9
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

 

[Nehemiah6]

I don't recall hearing of the book, intent to check it out. Thanks for the info.!

You can purchase it through Amazon. Here is one review from Amazon:

This book should be required reading for seminary students. In the field of New Testament textual criticism, the question arises whether the last twelve verses of Mark's Gospel were original, or a later addition. The ESV for example includes the text but in parentheses, to suggest it is not original. They follow the line of Westcott and Hort, and presently the Alands, who place great trust in two leading codices - Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.

In a work of thorough and competent scholarship, Burgon shows that the witness of the early church fathers who lived and wrote before the 4th century is that the disputed passage was present in the church's copies of the New Testament for a significant period before Sinaiticus and Vaticanus (which are 4th century). The open-minded scholar who takes time to consider Burgon's case will I think realize that it is a substantial case and needs to be heard.

 

[Wansvic]

You can purchase it through Amazon. Here is one review from Amazon:

This book should be required reading for seminary students. In the field of New Testament textual criticism, the question arises whether the last twelve verses of Mark's Gospel were original, or a later addition. The ESV for example includes the text but in parentheses, to suggest it is not original. They follow the line of Westcott and Hort, and presently the Alands, who place great trust in two leading codices - Sinaiticus and Vaticanus.

In a work of thorough and competent scholarship, Burgon shows that the witness of the early church fathers who lived and wrote before the 4th century is that the disputed passage was present in the church's copies of the New Testament for a significant period before Sinaiticus and Vaticanus (which are 4th century). The open-minded scholar who takes time to consider Burgon's case will I think realize that it is a substantial case and needs to be heard.

Thanks again. I was wondering which book to purchase. I see it has been reprinted several times.

 

[DavidTree]

Again, you are bypassing what Paul's initial question reveals. The question is a separate issue than what transpired afterward.

No - i am in FULL agreement with what the Holy Spirit has recorded for us - and YES there are Two distinct Issues at hand.

#1 Believing Disciples

#2 Baptism of the Holy Spirit

 

[DavidTree]

See Romans 8:9
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Scripture says we believe by the Spirit of God = they were Saved Believers = they had the FIRST Promise

What they were missing was the SECOND Promise of the Father = Baptism of the Holy Spirit

Stop removing from God's words by attempting to deny they were saved believers = Acts records the entire event.

Since God declared these men as Believers = who are you to say otherwise!!!

Furthermore, you need to pray and dig deeper in Acts.

Peace

 

[hornetguy]

You said Truth here = "The structure of Paul's question indicates he assumed they had already believed but had not received the Holy Ghost yet."

You said error here = "Scripture indicates those who have not received the Holy Ghost/Spirit are considered outside the body of Christ."

We are Saved by the Spirit of God when we believe =
"He(Paul) said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since you(disciples) believed?"

The believing disciples knew the Lord Jesus Christ.
The preaching of the Second Promise of the Father was withheld from them = "“we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”

Paul never said to them believe on the LORD for Salvation, but only to be baptised in the Name of Christ to recieve the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which they did not know of = Holy Spirit Baptism.
AND
God explained to us why.

Again, you are bypassing what Paul's initial question reveals. The question is a separate issue than what transpired afterward.

What I want to know is..... just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin....? Really?

Paul, to Timothy... "23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. "

 

[hornetguy]

I've included evidence that speaks to the authenticity of the long ending of the Gospel of Mark, I thought might be of interest:

Thank you for this. I will research the issue more thoroughly...

 

[DavidTree]

What I want to know is..... just how many angels CAN dance on the head of a pin....? Really?

Paul, to Timothy... "23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels. "

Case in point: You just created, in your own words, a "foolish and ignorant speculation" = "how many angels CAN dance....."

Whereas the Holy Spirit conducted the account of His Glorious Outpouring in Acts and warns us of how some seek to bypass thru academic exaltation.

 

[hornetguy]

Case in point: You just created, in your own words, a "foolish and ignorant speculation" = "how many angels CAN dance....."

Whereas the Holy Spirit conducted the account of His Glorious Outpouring in Acts and warns us of how some seek to bypass thru academic exaltation.

um.... I was using an absurd example to illustrate you two guys arguing semantics for 4 or 5 pages now.
Sorry you missed that. I thought it was pretty obvious.

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (alternatively "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?")

is a reductio ad absurdum challenge to medieval scholasticism in general, and its angelology in particular, as represented by figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas.

It is first recorded in the 17th century, in the context of Protestant apologetics. It also has been linked to the fall of Constantinople, with the imagery of scholars debating while the Turks besieged the city.

In modern usage, the term has lost its theological context and is used as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value, or questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence, while more urgent concerns accumulate.

"The actual quotation is, “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”. It was a criticism of theologians who spent their efforts arguing about inconsequential and ridiculous things instead of advancing our knowledge of God. It is used now to say that someone is arguing about trivialities. "

 

[hornetguy]

i don't know of any Church who believes in Speaking in Tongues is elevating it to a level you claim. i think because you oppose Speaking in Tongues, it just seems to be that way from your viewpoint.

Well, there's these Pentecostals...

Without getting too complicated, Apostolic Pentecostals believe “Father,” ‘’Son” and “Holy Spirit” aren’t three distinct persons, but three different titles for one person: Jesus.

The group also believes you must speak in tongues to be saved, a practice known as glossolalia, which involves uttering a foreign language previously unknown to the speaker.

.... and the Assemblies of God.....

Pentecostals are so certain of this logic that many consider it to be a key teaching of the Christian faith. For example, the Assemblies of God, the largest Pentecostal denomination in the world, has 16 Fundamental Truths. Number eight is this: “The baptism of believers in the Holy Spirit is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance.”
Here then is the Pentecostal logic:

• All followers of Jesus should be baptized in the Holy Spirit, which will empower them to be Christ’s witnesses.
• The initial physical evidence of this baptism is speaking in tongues.
• Therefore, all believers should speak in tongues.

 

[DavidTree]

um.... I was using an absurd example to illustrate you two guys arguing semantics for 4 or 5 pages now.
Sorry you missed that. I thought it was pretty obvious.

"How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" (alternatively "How many angels can stand on the point of a pin?")

is a reductio ad absurdum challenge to medieval scholasticism in general, and its angelology in particular, as represented by figures such as Duns Scotus and Thomas Aquinas.

It is first recorded in the 17th century, in the context of Protestant apologetics. It also has been linked to the fall of Constantinople, with the imagery of scholars debating while the Turks besieged the city.

In modern usage, the term has lost its theological context and is used as a metaphor for wasting time debating topics of no practical value, or questions whose answers hold no intellectual consequence, while more urgent concerns accumulate.

"The actual quotation is, “How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?”. It was a criticism of theologians who spent their efforts arguing about inconsequential and ridiculous things instead of advancing our knowledge of God. It is used now to say that someone is arguing about trivialities. "

i guess you missed the point that you revealed your own willful ignorance of the Scripture thru mockery.

Which you again expressed with misapplication a second time = "It was a criticism of theologians who spent their efforts arguing about inconsequential and ridiculous things instead of advancing our knowledge of God."

"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and
who correctly handles the word of truth."

Do your very best today, dear Brother in Christ, for our Heavenly Father watches and listens.