Is The Earth Flat Or Round?
- Thread starter seed_time_harvest
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The Flat Earth idea is not compatible with Gravitational Theory. How Flat Earth enthusiasts
reconcile this with the idea of objects falling can be varied. However, a common "go to" answer
is one that attempts to explain gravity away with the concept of density. This type of gravity
denial is examined, along with a demonstration that poses some questions.
You guys are the ones with the blindfold covering your minds.
Not one here has been able to answer a simple question about this 'theory of gravity'.
Density/weight/mass is the relationship between the air/ballon/helium.
Zero evidence of your make believe gravity, which has NEVER been proven and cannot be proven.
Now that is hysterical.
Here you go Brother, take a crack at it:
It is correct in that the helium causes lift because it is lighter then the air.
The balloon returns (falls) back to earth when the helium escapes the balloon.
Please provide evidence of exactly what technology/science is in use/application whereby the theory of gravity is negated in the helium balloon.
Any mass that falls to the ground when dropped is 100% purely due to the fact that it is heavier/density then the air underneath/surrounding it - Period.
Claiming gravity exists is not scientific observable evidence.
The weight of the balloon rising thru the air due to the helium inside and then later falling thru the air back to ground (due to helium escaping) is observable proven science.
PS - Some have claimed the 'theory of gravity' is a proven law to which the Holy Spirit says: "no lie is of the truth" = 1 John 2:21`
It is correct in that the helium causes lift because it is lighter then the air.
The balloon returns (falls) back to earth when the helium escapes the balloon.
Please provide evidence of exactly what technology/science is in use/application whereby the theory of gravity is negated in the helium balloon.
Any mass that falls to the ground when dropped is 100% purely due to the fact that it is heavier/density then the air underneath/surrounding it - Period.
Claiming gravity exists is not scientific observable evidence.
The weight of the balloon rising thru the air due to the helium inside and then later falling thru the air back to ground (due to helium escaping) is observable proven science.
PS - Some have claimed the 'theory of gravity' is a proven law to which the Holy Spirit says: "no lie is of the truth" = 1 John 2:21`
In physics, gravity (from Latin gravitas 'weight' is a fundamental interaction which causes mutual attraction between all things with mass or energy.
Every planetary body (including the Earth) is surrounded by its own gravitational field, which can be conceptualized with Newtonian physics as exerting an attractive force on all objects. Assuming a spherically symmetrical planet, the strength of this field at any given point above the surface is proportional to the planetary body's mass and inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the center of the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#Earth's_gravity
-
Every planetary body (including the Earth) is surrounded by its own gravitational field, which can be conceptualized with Newtonian physics as exerting an attractive force on all objects. Assuming a spherically symmetrical planet, the strength of this field at any given point above the surface is proportional to the planetary body's mass and inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the center of the body.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity#Earth's_gravity
-
#2 - "Assuming a spherically symmetrical planet,"
#3 - This is the end time globalist agenda/deception
#4 - You are unable to answer the question posed to you and all on here.
Provide evidence of exactly what technology/science is in use/application whereby the theory of gravity is negated in the helium balloon.
Good evening, Brother
The elemental short form for helium is "He", I was just making a helium pun when Cameron made a joke about "lightening up" (because helium is the lightest standard element aside from hydrogen).
Helium is actually a component of air based on a given temperature and pressure, but that saturation limit is so low it only exists in trace quantities in the air. One of the ways to produce helium is by supercooling air to induce stratification and then drawing from a layer of the column (the change in temperature causes the helium and other gases to "unmix" from the air).
If we were to take a step back and compare your model of "downward pull" to the modernly held model of gravity, we see that the only real difference is that the modern model of gravity attributes downward pull to mass, and then states that the force of "downward pull" exists in all matter based on their mass.
I was racking my brain trying to think of a good terrestrial test that could be performed in order to demonstrate gravity in the mass of objects. Someone brought up the elevator ball example, but to me, that doesn't seem like a satisfactory demonstration, as the attractive force could be attributed to vibration and surface energy, etc. rather than specifically to gravitational pull between two objects.
If I understand some of your points correctly, you still hold true many of the concepts of gravity, such as the acceleration within the "downward pull", etc.
I think this topic is a great opportunity for everyone to go back to the basics of science, which is to say that any theory should be able to have repeatable effects and everyone should be able to run the same tests and come to the same data (with some degree of statistical variation and uncertainty, of course).
My own view is geared towards the acceptance of a globe earth as the more compelling model, but that is largely based on taught material and other principles would should be fair game to test and challenge. The truth doesn't fear being tested and challenged.
How can I rule out the idea that we might live in a world orchestrated largely by Descartes Demon? Or that we might live in Plato's Cave? I think there is no harm in trying to look at something from both sides of the picture and let our own sense of reason lead our way. The hope is that our sense of reason is guided by the right Spirit. Sometimes that Spirit speaks through others to us, as iron sharpens iron, we can bounce ideas back and forth to more finely tune our edge.
There is a deeper conversation to be had here, and looking at your comments in the thread so far, you come off as nothing but loving and kind in the way you speak your mind. And to that, I think that is the greatest light that can shine through any conversation. In that I thank you for being you. God bless and Godspeed.
But how should we approach this situation of differences between globe and flat earth? This goes back to the fundamentals and foundation of how we approach exegesis and science. What is our foundation of truth? Yes, we Christians stand together and accept the Bible and foundational church doctrine (e.g. Trinity) as truth, but there are so many other things that we all might approach in a different way. Different "schools of thought" if you will, which we see in Romans 14:5 is an acceptable practice in some cases.
Many of the points about globe earth are going to come from celestial observations, like addressing why the planets go into retrograde, or why the moon or sun appear in different locations in the sky at the same time when observed from different parts of the world. I'm always intrigued by different points of view, but I don't understand much about how a flat earth model would address those observations. I think at some point, the flat earth models runs into a scenario where some observations are declared to be fictitious or deceptive, such as video footage of a rocket leaving orbit. If we call these rejections of observations "Descartes Demonisms", at what point do we draw the dividing line between reliable observations and unreliable observations?
If we take this back to a close-community basis, we could draw that line at observations which are repeatable by that community and observations that aren't repeatable by that community. A small town couldn't afford to make a space-faring rocket, therefore footage of space could be put into the "unreliable" category because it is impractical to repeat the observation for the purpose of verification. On a higher level, this applies to the scientific community in terms of "cutting edge" discoveries. How do we know for sure that CERN's findings with the Higgs Boson through the LHC were actually legitimate if we don't have our own accelerator the size of a small country? How do we know that pharmaceutical discoveries and products are actually legitimate and as advertised if we don't have our own research labs?
Is this in line with what you are thinking?
The elemental short form for helium is "He", I was just making a helium pun when Cameron made a joke about "lightening up" (because helium is the lightest standard element aside from hydrogen).
Helium is actually a component of air based on a given temperature and pressure, but that saturation limit is so low it only exists in trace quantities in the air. One of the ways to produce helium is by supercooling air to induce stratification and then drawing from a layer of the column (the change in temperature causes the helium and other gases to "unmix" from the air).
If we were to take a step back and compare your model of "downward pull" to the modernly held model of gravity, we see that the only real difference is that the modern model of gravity attributes downward pull to mass, and then states that the force of "downward pull" exists in all matter based on their mass.
I was racking my brain trying to think of a good terrestrial test that could be performed in order to demonstrate gravity in the mass of objects. Someone brought up the elevator ball example, but to me, that doesn't seem like a satisfactory demonstration, as the attractive force could be attributed to vibration and surface energy, etc. rather than specifically to gravitational pull between two objects.
If I understand some of your points correctly, you still hold true many of the concepts of gravity, such as the acceleration within the "downward pull", etc.
I think this topic is a great opportunity for everyone to go back to the basics of science, which is to say that any theory should be able to have repeatable effects and everyone should be able to run the same tests and come to the same data (with some degree of statistical variation and uncertainty, of course).
My own view is geared towards the acceptance of a globe earth as the more compelling model, but that is largely based on taught material and other principles would should be fair game to test and challenge. The truth doesn't fear being tested and challenged.
How can I rule out the idea that we might live in a world orchestrated largely by Descartes Demon? Or that we might live in Plato's Cave? I think there is no harm in trying to look at something from both sides of the picture and let our own sense of reason lead our way. The hope is that our sense of reason is guided by the right Spirit. Sometimes that Spirit speaks through others to us, as iron sharpens iron, we can bounce ideas back and forth to more finely tune our edge.
There is a deeper conversation to be had here, and looking at your comments in the thread so far, you come off as nothing but loving and kind in the way you speak your mind. And to that, I think that is the greatest light that can shine through any conversation. In that I thank you for being you. God bless and Godspeed.
But how should we approach this situation of differences between globe and flat earth? This goes back to the fundamentals and foundation of how we approach exegesis and science. What is our foundation of truth? Yes, we Christians stand together and accept the Bible and foundational church doctrine (e.g. Trinity) as truth, but there are so many other things that we all might approach in a different way. Different "schools of thought" if you will, which we see in Romans 14:5 is an acceptable practice in some cases.
Many of the points about globe earth are going to come from celestial observations, like addressing why the planets go into retrograde, or why the moon or sun appear in different locations in the sky at the same time when observed from different parts of the world. I'm always intrigued by different points of view, but I don't understand much about how a flat earth model would address those observations. I think at some point, the flat earth models runs into a scenario where some observations are declared to be fictitious or deceptive, such as video footage of a rocket leaving orbit. If we call these rejections of observations "Descartes Demonisms", at what point do we draw the dividing line between reliable observations and unreliable observations?
If we take this back to a close-community basis, we could draw that line at observations which are repeatable by that community and observations that aren't repeatable by that community. A small town couldn't afford to make a space-faring rocket, therefore footage of space could be put into the "unreliable" category because it is impractical to repeat the observation for the purpose of verification. On a higher level, this applies to the scientific community in terms of "cutting edge" discoveries. How do we know for sure that CERN's findings with the Higgs Boson through the LHC were actually legitimate if we don't have our own accelerator the size of a small country? How do we know that pharmaceutical discoveries and products are actually legitimate and as advertised if we don't have our own research labs?
Is this in line with what you are thinking?
-
3
-
1
- Show all
Thank You First and Foremost for your love in Christ and your love for the Brethren.
Thank you also that you have taken the time to understand my folly = seeking truth and in the process, exposing myself to vulnerabilities, prejudices and being wrong.
i do not see myself nor make the claim to be smart - intelligent - or abounding in knowledge.
Rather i am delightfully thankful for the very smart and educated Brethren that are on here and assist me along = one way or the other.
Nevertheless i can only participate in what God has made available to me in my limited current form (IQ, physique/disabilties/spirit/soul/discernment/deduction/love of truth) along with His Holy Spirit which grants to us the "love of Christ which surpasses all knowledge."
In case anyone may have missed it, i have never said nor ever will say that the shape of the earth which we stand upon has any bearing upon the Love of Christ which is the Atonement of His Death on the Cross for our sins and the sins of the entire world.
This also applies to whether gravity exists or does not or is something yet to be more readily defined as it can be more readily observed/measured and ultimately proven to be a 'law' that the LORD has indeed created for His Glory.
Therefore i make no claims as to whether i know 100% what exactly the shape of the earth.
i have done some limited research on both sides of the 'curve' and found that the 'scientific' observations by NASA and some of it's films have been doctored to substantiate a global world view.
i have also discovered that other scientists have taken pictures of known mountains and distances that would be impossible given the earth's curvature measurements by NASA and other key institutions.
i also find it quite compelling who some of the key 'mentors' of NASA were (and continue): Jack Parsons, Alister Crowley, Ron Hubbard, Walt Disney (yes, if still available you can find this out).
CERN is another example of science being implemented for the 'god of this age' and i believe that many of these things which are strongly impressed upon our minds from childhood on up have an end goal in mind and not for the good.
Let me propose this further to you since your knowledge operates in a beautiful way and greatly exceeds my own limited.
If, we are on a globe spinning thru space, while we are located upside down(bottom of the earth ball) how does 'gravity' operate?
Please break it down for an average joe truth seeker, such as i admit myself to be.
Here is the reason why i ask this: From a scientific viewpoint concerning known measurements/physics upon mass/weight, it is directly connected to the 'helium balloon' observation but is exponentially magnified.
i have no shame in being found wrong as my joy comes from discovering truth and not my own ideas.
Peace to all my Brethren on CC
Thank you also that you have taken the time to understand my folly = seeking truth and in the process, exposing myself to vulnerabilities, prejudices and being wrong.
i do not see myself nor make the claim to be smart - intelligent - or abounding in knowledge.
Rather i am delightfully thankful for the very smart and educated Brethren that are on here and assist me along = one way or the other.
Nevertheless i can only participate in what God has made available to me in my limited current form (IQ, physique/disabilties/spirit/soul/discernment/deduction/love of truth) along with His Holy Spirit which grants to us the "love of Christ which surpasses all knowledge."
In case anyone may have missed it, i have never said nor ever will say that the shape of the earth which we stand upon has any bearing upon the Love of Christ which is the Atonement of His Death on the Cross for our sins and the sins of the entire world.
This also applies to whether gravity exists or does not or is something yet to be more readily defined as it can be more readily observed/measured and ultimately proven to be a 'law' that the LORD has indeed created for His Glory.
Therefore i make no claims as to whether i know 100% what exactly the shape of the earth.
i have done some limited research on both sides of the 'curve' and found that the 'scientific' observations by NASA and some of it's films have been doctored to substantiate a global world view.
i have also discovered that other scientists have taken pictures of known mountains and distances that would be impossible given the earth's curvature measurements by NASA and other key institutions.
i also find it quite compelling who some of the key 'mentors' of NASA were (and continue): Jack Parsons, Alister Crowley, Ron Hubbard, Walt Disney (yes, if still available you can find this out).
CERN is another example of science being implemented for the 'god of this age' and i believe that many of these things which are strongly impressed upon our minds from childhood on up have an end goal in mind and not for the good.
Let me propose this further to you since your knowledge operates in a beautiful way and greatly exceeds my own limited.
If, we are on a globe spinning thru space, while we are located upside down(bottom of the earth ball) how does 'gravity' operate?
Please break it down for an average joe truth seeker, such as i admit myself to be.
Here is the reason why i ask this: From a scientific viewpoint concerning known measurements/physics upon mass/weight, it is directly connected to the 'helium balloon' observation but is exponentially magnified.
i have no shame in being found wrong as my joy comes from discovering truth and not my own ideas.
Peace to all my Brethren on CC
i apologize if i have offended anyone on this subject matter which i do take seriously since it is directly connected to a globe earth spinning thru space.
It is important to note that the world has been indoctrinated by occultic beliefs in the name of 'science'.
CERN is the latest and most blatant, in your face, worship of the occult and using technology to interact with other dimensional beings that are not part of the Holy angels that serve One True Elohim.
i have used the helium balloon example since it is very simple and straightforward where any person can understand.
Again, i am not seeking high level intellectual acumen nor language that can only be accessed by few.
Simple as the helium balloon is, it is also quite profound and telling as the implications for a spinning globe and larger/heavier objects become exponentially magnified, which few have even considered here.
We are assuming that there is gravity and it is the reason why the deflated helium balloon falls back to earth.
Which begs the question: What specific technological/scientific evidence exists whereby the balloon overrides the gravitational fields/pull upon itself as it rises.
The obvious answer is none, since the scientific factual evidence proves it is only the helium, that is lighter then air, causing the balloon to rise and once the helium escapes the balloon the balloon falls thru the air = only and purely due to it being heavier then the air supporting it.
If gravity was a proven law, it could be measured and observed. To which the globalist would answer that the weight of the balloon is the measure of gravity, which is circular reasoning and false. Furthermore that reasoning would now expose it's own weakness.
Most make the claim that gravity is being observed by the balloon falling back to earth.
But this has been proven incorrect since it is the weight of the balloon that is heavier then the air causing it it fall downward to earth, which was twice proven = first with the helium then with the loss of helium.
Now ponder the exponential magnitude of the weight of a Backhoe while on a globe earth upside down.
There are serious implications which very few have considered to which globalists teach 'gravity' is the surefire answer.
Few have pondered the impossibilty of this due to the force of gravity necessary to keep that Backhoe on the earth while upside down and spinning.
Furthermore water seeks it's own level 24/7 everywhere on earth which is a proven LAW.
Entire oceans miles deep of fluid water kept stuck to a globe earth spinning thru space = quite the science fiction we have here.
We have all been raised by a pre-planned worldview to believe in a globe earth spinning thru space that began thousands of years ago. Of which i was a firm believer in it.
Do you know of the world record long distance photo of two mountain tops approximately 275 miles apart???
This would be an impossibility on a globe earth given the measurements by todays global scientific community as the mountain top would be miles below the curvature of the earth = at that distance.
This is presented for us to think and research while we still can as factual information is being canceled even as we speak.
Whoever controls perception controls reality in the minds of the masses.
It is important to note that the world has been indoctrinated by occultic beliefs in the name of 'science'.
CERN is the latest and most blatant, in your face, worship of the occult and using technology to interact with other dimensional beings that are not part of the Holy angels that serve One True Elohim.
i have used the helium balloon example since it is very simple and straightforward where any person can understand.
Again, i am not seeking high level intellectual acumen nor language that can only be accessed by few.
Simple as the helium balloon is, it is also quite profound and telling as the implications for a spinning globe and larger/heavier objects become exponentially magnified, which few have even considered here.
We are assuming that there is gravity and it is the reason why the deflated helium balloon falls back to earth.
Which begs the question: What specific technological/scientific evidence exists whereby the balloon overrides the gravitational fields/pull upon itself as it rises.
The obvious answer is none, since the scientific factual evidence proves it is only the helium, that is lighter then air, causing the balloon to rise and once the helium escapes the balloon the balloon falls thru the air = only and purely due to it being heavier then the air supporting it.
If gravity was a proven law, it could be measured and observed. To which the globalist would answer that the weight of the balloon is the measure of gravity, which is circular reasoning and false. Furthermore that reasoning would now expose it's own weakness.
Most make the claim that gravity is being observed by the balloon falling back to earth.
But this has been proven incorrect since it is the weight of the balloon that is heavier then the air causing it it fall downward to earth, which was twice proven = first with the helium then with the loss of helium.
Now ponder the exponential magnitude of the weight of a Backhoe while on a globe earth upside down.
There are serious implications which very few have considered to which globalists teach 'gravity' is the surefire answer.
Few have pondered the impossibilty of this due to the force of gravity necessary to keep that Backhoe on the earth while upside down and spinning.
Furthermore water seeks it's own level 24/7 everywhere on earth which is a proven LAW.
Entire oceans miles deep of fluid water kept stuck to a globe earth spinning thru space = quite the science fiction we have here.
We have all been raised by a pre-planned worldview to believe in a globe earth spinning thru space that began thousands of years ago. Of which i was a firm believer in it.
Do you know of the world record long distance photo of two mountain tops approximately 275 miles apart???
This would be an impossibility on a globe earth given the measurements by todays global scientific community as the mountain top would be miles below the curvature of the earth = at that distance.
This is presented for us to think and research while we still can as factual information is being canceled even as we speak.
Whoever controls perception controls reality in the minds of the masses.
Again, we are receiving what they are telling us is factual.
Whereas God has told us that the earth is fixed and does not move(spin thru space) but that HE created the Sun, Moon and Stars to move in a ordained pattern set by the Creator for times and seasons.
"And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so."
Globalists contradict this as they teach us a globe earth AND the stars spinning thru space.
Have you researched 'Operation Fishbowl'.
Whereas God has told us that the earth is fixed and does not move(spin thru space) but that HE created the Sun, Moon and Stars to move in a ordained pattern set by the Creator for times and seasons.
"And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to distinguish between the day and the night, and let them be signs to mark the seasons and days and years. 15And let them serve as lights in the expanse of the sky to shine upon the earth.” And it was so."
Globalists contradict this as they teach us a globe earth AND the stars spinning thru space.
Have you researched 'Operation Fishbowl'.
Helium balloons rise upward because it depends on the amount of helium in the balloon. If you were to fill a balloon with just a bit of helium, it’s possible it would rise to a certain level until it achieves buoyancy.
You can do this experiment right now in your house and experiment with different inflation levels of helium. If you have a barometer, try it on days when the atmospheric pressure is low and says when it is higher. Or you can check the atmospheric pressure in your area on a weather website. This isn’t conspiracy, it’s a fact.
The atmospheric pressure decreases as one goes up and helium is lighter than our atmosphere at surface level. When a helium balloon reaches a certain point higher in the atmosphere, where the pressure is lighter, it will find a point of equilibrium and stop rising.
This is basic atmospheric physics and fluid dynamics. I’m also a credible source on this matter. I’ve studied the topic for years and I’m an experienced weather forecaster.
Helium balloons have little if anything to do with gravity and it certainly isn’t a talking point that debunks gravity
This isn’t debatable. Please stop this nonsense.
You can do this experiment right now in your house and experiment with different inflation levels of helium. If you have a barometer, try it on days when the atmospheric pressure is low and says when it is higher. Or you can check the atmospheric pressure in your area on a weather website. This isn’t conspiracy, it’s a fact.
The atmospheric pressure decreases as one goes up and helium is lighter than our atmosphere at surface level. When a helium balloon reaches a certain point higher in the atmosphere, where the pressure is lighter, it will find a point of equilibrium and stop rising.
This is basic atmospheric physics and fluid dynamics. I’m also a credible source on this matter. I’ve studied the topic for years and I’m an experienced weather forecaster.
Helium balloons have little if anything to do with gravity and it certainly isn’t a talking point that debunks gravity
This isn’t debatable. Please stop this nonsense.
-
1
- Show all
Nobody is refuting the science as to why the helium balloon rises.
What factual evidence do you have to even say such as: "
Helium balloons have little if anything to do with gravity and it certainly isn’t a talking point that debunks gravity"
i notice that science deniers hate evidence that contradicts their theories.
To which it is labeled as nonsense.
What factual evidence do you have to even say such as: "
Helium balloons have little if anything to do with gravity and it certainly isn’t a talking point that debunks gravity"
i notice that science deniers hate evidence that contradicts their theories.
To which it is labeled as nonsense.
-
1
- Show all