The Remnant

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,769
113
#61
Not according to Deut -Deuteronomy 28:20 NASB95 - "The LORD will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken Me."
Another passage taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Were curses sent upon the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14 or were they blessed by being raptured into the very presence of God? How are Christians getting so confused about fundamental Bible truth?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#62
Another passage taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Were curses sent upon the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14 or were they blessed by being raptured into the very presence of God? How are Christians getting so confused about fundamental Bible truth?
Where does it say in Revelation that the 144,000 or any other Saints were raptured?

Please provide the scripture - thank you
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#63
Another passage taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Were curses sent upon the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14 or were they blessed by being raptured into the very presence of God? How are Christians getting so confused about fundamental Bible truth?
Good Morning Brother Nehemiah6

May the Star of David rise in your heart today and give you peace.
 

2ndTimothyGroup

Well-known member
Feb 20, 2021
5,883
1,952
113
#64
Another passage taken OUT OF CONTEXT. Were curses sent upon the 144,000 in Revelation 7 & 14 or were they blessed by being raptured into the very presence of God? How are Christians getting so confused about fundamental Bible truth?
How do "christians" like yourself become so confused? God hasn't yet given you eyes to see, ears to hear, and legs to Spiritually Walk. Why? Because you have not been released from the Curse of the Lord . . . the Curse that causes confusion.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
13,879
5,623
113
#65
I believe the scriptures to teach that not all of the nation of Israel, is included in Jacob as Israel. Jacob's name was changed by God to be no more called Jacob, but to be called Israel (Gen 32:28). Jacob as Israel is representative of all of God's elect people (Rom 9:11), which includes people from every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9).

The remnant of the house of Jacob as Israel include those who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them, the knowledge of the truth of the doctrine of Jesus Christ, (Rom 10:1-3), and the rest of Jacob as Israel were blinded to the truth, and are going about teaching, and preaching eternal salvation by the works of the law.

Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to the lost sheep of the house of Jacob as Israel (teaching them not to depend upon the old law for eternal salvation, and to understand that Jesus gave eternal salvation to them, by his sacrifice on the cross, redeeming them from their sins. - John 6:39)
“Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.

A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.

Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.

Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.

So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it. When

I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:

so will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭5:11-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the remnant would be those salted from the desolation of Jerusalem for breaking the law. When he swore to destroy them fornthier rebellion he foretold the sparing of a remnant of Israel a tenth

“Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:6-

“Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: that they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭9:8-

the savior would come to israel the remnant are those who believed in him and were spared from the desolation of Jerusalem which came because of this

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a few people believed in Jesus they are the remnant of israel and the gentiles have now been included with israel to replace those ofnisrael who rejected Christ and were left desolate

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-13, 19

Gentiles aren’t gentiles anymore bekievers are born into Gods israel the family of Abraham

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christian’s of all Nations are Abraham’s children it has nothing to do with the flesh those who receive the spirit are the children of promise not to one who reject the gospel but those who receive the gospel there was only a remnant of Israelites who accepted Jesus the rest rejected him d set to destroy the church the remnant is the original Israeli church those Israelites who accepted salvstion and were sent out to witness it to the world beginning at Jerusalem after the resurrection

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The promises made to Abraham are fulfilled in the gospel not the ot law
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#66
Revelation is written in Code, by the Holy Spirit and is mixed with both literal and symbolic meaning.

The Tribulation Saints are those mentioned in chapter 7 as well as other parts of Revelation.

Do you know Who the 144,000 are???
There is a clear distinction made between the two groups of Tribulation saints. The account shows the first group consisting of 144,000 being sealed/marked. (Rev. 7:2-8) Since Christians are sealed upon obedience to the gospel message they are not numbered in the 144,000. And verse 9 specifically references that it is after the command to seal the 144,000 that a multitude that cannot be numbered is mentioned.

My thought on this is the tribes of the children of Israel are those who remain blind to the reality that Jesus was in fact their Messiah. And this occurs by the providence of God for a reason; of which only He knows the full. The 144,000 Jews alive at the time of the end, will be the descendants of those who have not wavered in their commitment to God in obedience to the OT mandates. And while patiently awaiting their Messiah will have reinstated the sacrificial system established by God. It may be that the false prophet will cause fire to come down from heaven to initiate the sacrificial system in the newly constructed third temple. If so, this counterfeit action will deceive many into worshipping the Antichrist. (Rev. 13:13)

What many fail to realize is the Book of Revelation is in fact the record of the revealing/unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul mentions that the veil of blindness upon some of the nation of Israel is a mystery only known to God. And that it will occur once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. And we know this fulfillment has not yet come. Many are still hearing and believing the gospel message. However, one thing is for sure. And that is they, too, will realize along with the very last Gentile saved that the coming of their Messiah is in fact His second coming.

The following website has some relevant information:
https://israelmyglory.org/article/the-restoration-of-israel-part-two/

Rev 7:2-8
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Those sealed numbered 144,000:

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#67
There is a clear distinction made between the two groups of Tribulation saints. The account shows the first group consisting of 144,000 being sealed/marked. (Rev. 7:2-8) Since Christians are sealed upon obedience to the gospel message they are not numbered in the 144,000. And verse 9 specifically references that it is after the command to seal the 144,000 that a multitude that cannot be numbered is mentioned.

My thought on this is the tribes of the children of Israel are those who remain blind to the reality that Jesus was in fact their Messiah. And this occurs by the providence of God for a reason; of which only He knows the full. The 144,000 Jews alive at the time of the end, will be the descendants of those who have not wavered in their commitment to God in obedience to the OT mandates. And while patiently awaiting their Messiah will have reinstated the sacrificial system established by God. It may be that the false prophet will cause fire to come down from heaven to initiate the sacrificial system in the newly constructed third temple. If so, this counterfeit action will deceive many into worshipping the Antichrist. (Rev. 13:13)

What many fail to realize is the Book of Revelation is in fact the record of the revealing/unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul mentions that the veil of blindness upon some of the nation of Israel is a mystery only known to God. And that it will occur once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. And we know this fulfillment has not yet come. Many are still hearing and believing the gospel message. However, one thing is for sure. And that is they, too, will realize along with the very last Gentile saved that the coming of their Messiah is in fact His second coming.

The following website has some relevant information:
https://israelmyglory.org/article/the-restoration-of-israel-part-two/

Rev 7:2-8
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Those sealed numbered 144,000:

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

There is clear symbolism being used by the LORD to describe Truth that only the Holy Spirit can reveal.

Peace

PS - the phrase 'after this' in Revelation is to denote that what the LORD has shown the Apostle is complete and now for John to SEE observe, and record more Prophecy.

It does not definitively, in each case, denote a separation of thought or application.

Revelation is the Prophecy of the Risen Savior and HE repeats portions of HIS Prophecy throughout HIS Revelation.

Thus, the LORD gave us at least five accounts of His Gospel, telling the SAME Story/Truth from different angles/perspectives.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#68
Where does it state this?


The remnant of the house of Israel is the visible church. Ezk 10, espiecely verse 10. And as for their appearances, they four had one likeness, as if a wheel had been in the midst of a wheel. The smaller inner wheel being the visible church (the remnant of Israel) and the outer, larger wheel, being the rest of the house of Israel.

Rev 14:3-4 - (the inner wheel-the remnant of the house of Israel) And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beast, and the elders: And no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruit unto God, and to the Lamb.

The visible church is the bride of Christ who has stayed faithful to her husband, unlike the invisible church that has turned away from the doctrine of Christ, and are going about teaching, and preaching, false doctrines. Both the visible church and the invisible church are those that God gave to his Son to be a sacrifice, on the cross, in redeeming them of their sins, and securing their home in heaven.(John 6:39).


This also harmonizes with the two gates in Matt 7:13-14. Those who go into the straight gate are the visible church, the remnant who have been given, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, the knowledge of the truths of Jesus doctrine. They are but a few, and the life that they are lead to is an abundant, and blessed life that they live as they sojourn here on earth.

Those who go into the wide gate are the rest of the house of Israel who were blinded from seeing and understanding the truths of the doctrine of Jesus and are going about teaching, and preaching false doctrines.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#69
Perfectly applied to your post.

Do you not understand that Revelation is coded by the Holy Spirit with strong symbolism along with literal.

Have you never read this written by the Apostle Peter: 2 Peter 3:14-16

"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 15and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures."

Since this is true of the Apostle Paul, how much the more so is the Revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Therefore HE says:
"For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
Symbolism does not pertain to the verses mentioned. It is very easy to understand. The numbering is specific to those blinded of the 12 tribes of Israel. (Jews) And the multitude in verse 9 consists of those from all nations who were given the opportunity to "see" that Jesus was the Messiah. As such the group consists of Messianic Jews, and all other Gentile nations.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#70
Thank you for the opportunity to look over these remarkable Scriptures. They're unbelievable.

Just my thoughts:

First, I find verse nine to be rather interesting. One can only have Pure speech unless their heart has been Purified by Christ. This seems to be applicable to all Nations. It sounds like all people will be Purified, but moving into verse 12, God apparently wants us to shift focus from the larger "whole," and note a small Vine of people running through the midst of the "whole." That Vine consists of those who possess the Seed of Christ, but specifically the Blessed Jews.

In verse nine we read of God Purifying the speech of "all peoples" but later in verse 13, we find the same basic concepts as in verse 9. So, we see another distinction between the larger "whole" of the world and the smaller Vine of the Blessed Jews.

End times prophesy. Very fascinating stuff. And again, thanks for having me read Zephaniah. I've been mulling over this for at least an hour and a half; I loved it.

Anyway, I'm not an expert in Eschatology, in fact, God hasn't opened my eyes to these teachings specifically. My comments, therefore, could be off, but perhaps not. I looked over my past notes on Zephaniah, so it was good to go back and get a refresher.

Thanks for responding. I know that if all of the scriptures do not harmonize, then we do not understand the whole truth.

Another passage of scriptures that I have been pondering is found in Ezk 10th chapter, especially verse 10.

I am leaning toward the thought that the larger outer wheel (the invisible church) represents God's elect that are believing, and practicing false doctrines, due to the fact that they are blinded to understanding some of the truths contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught, and the smaller inner wheel being the remnant of the house of Israel (the visible church) who have been revealed, by the Holy Spirit within them, the knowledge of the truths contained in the doctrine of Christ.

My thinking is that "the invisible church" are the "lost sheep" that Jesus instructed his apostles to go and preach to in Matt 10:6.

Would you consider with me, if the two gates in Matt 7:13-14 will harmonize with Ezekiel 10.? The wide gate being the invisible church, and the straight gate being the visible church, which leads to an abundant, and blessed life as they sojourn here on earth.

I will turn 88 years old in January, so my thoughts may be feeble, but these scriptures, in my mind, seem to harmonize. What do you think?
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#71
There is a clear distinction made between the two groups of Tribulation saints. The account shows the first group consisting of 144,000 being sealed/marked. (Rev. 7:2-8) Since Christians are sealed upon obedience to the gospel message they are not numbered in the 144,000. And verse 9 specifically references that it is after the command to seal the 144,000 that a multitude that cannot be numbered is mentioned.

My thought on this is the tribes of the children of Israel are those who remain blind to the reality that Jesus was in fact their Messiah. And this occurs by the providence of God for a reason; of which only He knows the full. The 144,000 Jews alive at the time of the end, will be the descendants of those who have not wavered in their commitment to God in obedience to the OT mandates. And while patiently awaiting their Messiah will have reinstated the sacrificial system established by God. It may be that the false prophet will cause fire to come down from heaven to initiate the sacrificial system in the newly constructed third temple. If so, this counterfeit action will deceive many into worshipping the Antichrist. (Rev. 13:13)

What many fail to realize is the Book of Revelation is in fact the record of the revealing/unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ. Paul mentions that the veil of blindness upon some of the nation of Israel is a mystery only known to God. And that it will occur once the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled. And we know this fulfillment has not yet come. Many are still hearing and believing the gospel message. However, one thing is for sure. And that is they, too, will realize along with the very last Gentile saved that the coming of their Messiah is in fact His second coming.

The following website has some relevant information:
https://israelmyglory.org/article/the-restoration-of-israel-part-two/

Rev 7:2-8
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Those sealed numbered 144,000:

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Rev 7:9
"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"
There is no distinction given in Revelation separating the Body of Christ.

There is no distinction given in the Gospel
Symbolism does not pertain to the verses mentioned. It is very easy to understand. The numbering is specific to those blinded of the 12 tribes of Israel. (Jews) And the multitude in verse 9 consists of those from all nations who were given the opportunity to "see" that Jesus was the Messiah. As such the group consists of Messianic Jews, and all other Gentile nations.
There is and has been and will be only One Sactified Blood Washed Israel of God = Beginning in Genesis and Completing in Revelation

Study Genesis, Romans, Galatians, Acts, Gospel of John, Revelation.

There is only One Tree by whom all sanctified earthly nations are grafted into = only ONE.

Any attempt to seperate Jew from Gentile in His Body is sin and rebellion.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#72
“Wherefore, as I live, saith the Lord GOD; Surely, because thou hast defiled my sanctuary with all thy detestable things, and with all thine abominations, therefore will I also diminish thee; neither shall mine eye spare, neither will I have any pity.

A third part of thee shall die with the pestilence, and with famine shall they be consumed in the midst of thee: and a third part shall fall by the sword round about thee; and I will scatter a third part into all the winds, and I will draw out a sword after them.

Thus shall mine anger be accomplished, and I will cause my fury to rest upon them, and I will be comforted: and they shall know that I the LORD have spoken it in my zeal, when I have accomplished my fury in them.

Moreover I will make thee waste, and a reproach among the nations that are round about thee, in the sight of all that pass by.

So it shall be a reproach and a taunt, an instruction and an astonishment unto the nations that are round about thee, when I shall execute judgments in thee in anger and in fury and in furious rebukes. I the LORD have spoken it. When

I shall send upon them the evil arrows of famine, which shall be for their destruction, and which I will send to destroy you: and I will increase the famine upon you, and will break your staff of bread:

so will I send upon you famine and evil beasts, and they shall bereave thee; and pestilence and blood shall pass through thee; and I will bring the sword upon thee. I the LORD have spoken it.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭5:11-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the remnant would be those salted from the desolation of Jerusalem for breaking the law. When he swore to destroy them fornthier rebellion he foretold the sparing of a remnant of Israel a tenth

“Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom, your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:6-

“Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD. For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us. In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: that they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith the LORD that doeth this.”
‭‭Amos‬ ‭9:8-

the savior would come to israel the remnant are those who believed in him and were spared from the desolation of Jerusalem which came because of this

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.

When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a few people believed in Jesus they are the remnant of israel and the gentiles have now been included with israel to replace those ofnisrael who rejected Christ and were left desolate

“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:11-13, 19

Gentiles aren’t gentiles anymore bekievers are born into Gods israel the family of Abraham

“For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:27-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christian’s of all Nations are Abraham’s children it has nothing to do with the flesh those who receive the spirit are the children of promise not to one who reject the gospel but those who receive the gospel there was only a remnant of Israelites who accepted Jesus the rest rejected him d set to destroy the church the remnant is the original Israeli church those Israelites who accepted salvstion and were sent out to witness it to the world beginning at Jerusalem after the resurrection

“That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God:

but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭9:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The promises made to Abraham are fulfilled in the gospel not the ot law

Ezekiel the priest was sent as a messenger to the house of Israel to warn them of God's displeasure in them. God chastens those that he loves to bring them to repentance.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#73
There is no distinction given in Revelation separating the Body of Christ.

There is no distinction given in the Gospel


There is and has been and will be only One Sactified Blood Washed Israel of God = Beginning in Genesis and Completing in Revelation

Study Genesis, Romans, Galatians, Acts, Gospel of John, Revelation.

There is only One Tree by whom all sanctified earthly nations are grafted into = only ONE.

Any attempt to seperate Jew from Gentile in His Body is sin and rebellion.
As mentioned previously, Paul said blindness would come upon some of Israel UNTIL the time of the Gentiles was fulfilled. (verse 25) And goes on to explain not to be ignorant of the fact that the natural branches could more easily be graffed back into their own olive tree. (Rom 11:19-25) This indicating those blinded for God's intended purpose would have the veil removed and given the opportunity t0 be graffed back into their own tree.

"Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 13:24-25
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,880
2,111
113
#74
There is and has been and will be only One Sactified Blood Washed Israel of God = Beginning in Genesis and Completing in Revelation
The phrase in Galatians 6:16, "the Israel of God" refers to those of [the nation of] Israel who BELIEVED / BELIEVE.

This is why there is a clear grammatical distinction in 6:16 between "[1] peace UPON THEM, and mercy, [2] AND UPON the Israel of God".

One should understand the context of the Galatians epistle, to grasp why Paul is addressing these distinctly.


"the Israel of God" (those of Israel who BELIEVED / BELIEVE) is similar to how Paul, in Romans 2:29 (in the SECTION of Romans 1-3 COVERING "the Jews"... that is, in 2:17-3:20) speaks of, "...he is a Jew, which IS ONE inwardly..." (which is NOT saying, "Gentiles BECOME Jews upon faithing in Christ," NO!--This section of Romans is ABOUT "THE JEWS".)

Follow Paul's OUTLINE (in Romans):

[excerpt of old post]

"But he is a Jew, which IS ONE *inwardly*" is speaking ONLY of Jews (it is not saying that Gentiles who come to faith BECOME "Jews". No.)

One must track with Paul's outline [in ROMANS], here:

[--Romans 1:1-7 - Salutation]

--where he has been covering "Gentiles" from 1:8-1:32 (except for vv.19-21 where he covers each);

--a transition section from 2:1-2:16;

--then covering the "Jews" from 2:17-3:20 (where we find our verse under discussion, 2:28-29);

--then finally from 3:21 forward covers the fact that "ALL [Jews and Gentiles alike] have sinned and come short..."


[end quoting from old post]


Study Genesis, Romans, Galatians, Acts, Gospel of John, Revelation.
I exhort you to do the same. = )

There is only One Tree by whom all sanctified earthly nations are grafted into = only ONE.
The "Olive Tree" (Romans 11) is speaking of God's governmental ways upon the earth.

Both Calvinists and Arminianists get things wrong when viewing Romans 9-11 (about "nations"--Israel [singular nation], and Gentiles [plural nations]--go thru 9-11 and highlight every reference to "Israel" and "Gentiles" [/"nations"] and their associated pronouns, to see the frequency these are mentioned...); and particularly where Arminianists [incorrectly] believe Romans 11's "thou also shall be CUT OFF" is referring to "loss of salvation," which it is not. (They are misapprehending the overall CONTEXT.)
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#75
The phrase in Galatians 6:16, "the Israel of God" refers to those of [the nation of] Israel who BELIEVED / BELIEVE.

This is why there is a clear grammatical distinction in 6:16 between "[1] peace UPON THEM, and mercy, [2] AND UPON the Israel of God".

One should understand the context of the Galatians epistle, to grasp why Paul is addressing these distinctly.


"the Israel of God" (those of Israel who BELIEVED / BELIEVE) is similar to how Paul, in Romans 2:29 (in the SECTION of Romans 1-3 COVERING "the Jews"... that is, in 2:17-3:20) speaks of, "...he is a Jew, which IS ONE inwardly..." (which is NOT saying, "Gentiles BECOME Jews upon faithing in Christ," NO!--This section of Romans is ABOUT "THE JEWS".)

Follow Paul's OUTLINE (in Romans):

[excerpt of old post]

"But he is a Jew, which IS ONE *inwardly*" is speaking ONLY of Jews (it is not saying that Gentiles who come to faith BECOME "Jews". No.)

One must track with Paul's outline [in ROMANS], here:

[--Romans 1:1-7 - Salutation]

--where he has been covering "Gentiles" from 1:8-1:32 (except for vv.19-21 where he covers each);

--a transition section from 2:1-2:16;

--then covering the "Jews" from 2:17-3:20 (where we find our verse under discussion, 2:28-29);

--then finally from 3:21 forward covers the fact that "ALL [Jews and Gentiles alike] have sinned and come short..."


[end quoting from old post]




I exhort you to do the same. = )



The "Olive Tree" (Romans 11) is speaking of God's governmental ways upon the earth.

Both Calvinists and Arminianists get things wrong when viewing Romans 9-11 (about "nations"--Israel [singular nation], and Gentiles [plural nations]--go thru 9-11 and highlight every reference to "Israel" and "Gentiles" [/"nations"] and their associated pronouns, to see the frequency these are mentioned...); and particularly where Arminianists [incorrectly] believe Romans 11's "thou also shall be CUT OFF" is referring to "loss of salvation," which it is not. (They are misapprehending the overall CONTEXT.)
The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul made a clear distinction between the Jews/Israel of the flesh and the Israel of God.

Both are referred to (and rightfully so) as the Israel of God - only One is currently part/member of the Tree of Life.

Both the LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul validated who is a 'true' Jew according to the circumcision of the heart = Born Again.

Here are the clear distinctions by our LORD & SAVIOR and the Apostle Paul.

YESHUA HaMoshiach = "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate. For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’” - Matt ch23

YESHUA HaMoshiach = "The true Light who gives light to every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
But to all who did receive Him, to those who believed in His name, He gave the right to become sons of God
children born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. = Holy Spirit Born Israel of God

Apostle Paul = It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.
Nor because they are Abraham’s descendants are they all his children. On the contrary, “Through Isaac your offspring will be reckoned.” So it is not the children of the flesh who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as offspring.
For this is what the promise stated: “At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”

What if He did this to make the riches of His glory known to the vessels of His mercy, whom He prepared in advance for glory— including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles?
As He says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people,
and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”
and,
“It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not My people,’
they will be called
‘sons of the living God.’ ”

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,880
2,111
113
#77
The LORD Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul made a clear distinction between the Jews/Israel of the flesh and the Israel of God.

Both are referred to (and rightfully so) as the Israel of God -
No they aren't (both referred to as "the Israel of God").

ONLY those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE are called that (and this phrase is used only in Gal6:16, let the readers note).








It sounds as though you perhaps may be conflating the terms "the God of Israel" (used 38x in Scripture) with that of the distinct phrase "the Israel of God" (used 1x only--in Gal6:16--speaking specifically of those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE [i.e. trusted in Christ and His finished work for salvation]).
Nevertheless, it is not speaking of GENTILES who believed [/ believe], as though Gentiles BECOME "Israel" (or BECOME "Jews" or "true Jews" as some express it) upon believing in Christ. NO! The text itself is speaking specifically of THOSE OF ISRAEL who believed / believe.




It is not true that unbelievers (of Israel) AND believers (of Israel) are BOTH called "the Israel of God"; NO.

That (idea) is based on a myth (re: the phrase "the Israel of God") that is being perpetuated by many (and many fall for it), unfortunately, but is not biblical, nor biblically accurate.
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#78
No they aren't (both referred to as "the Israel of God").

ONLY those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE are called that (and this phrase is used only in Gal6:16, let the readers note).








It sounds as though you perhaps may be conflating the terms "the God of Israel" (used 38x in Scripture) with that of the distinct phrase "the Israel of God" (used 1x only--in Gal6:16--speaking specifically of those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE [i.e. trusted in Christ and His finished work for salvation]).
Nevertheless, it is not speaking of GENTILES who believed [/ believe], as though Gentiles BECOME "Israel" (or BECOME "Jews" or "true Jews" as some express it) upon believing in Christ. NO! The text itself is speaking specifically of THOSE OF ISRAEL who believed / believe.




It is not true that unbelievers (of Israel) AND believers (of Israel) are BOTH called "the Israel of God"; NO.

That (idea) is based on a myth (re: the phrase "the Israel of God") that is being perpetuated by many (and many fall for it), unfortunately, but is not biblical, nor biblically accurate.
So the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles are confused when they speak of two distinct Israels = of the flesh and of the spirit.

Silly me to believe them - my bad.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,880
2,111
113
#79
So the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles are confused when they speak of two distinct Israels = of the flesh and of the spirit.

Silly me to believe them - my bad.
You apparently did not read my post. ;)





[note to the readers: my reference was specifically to the phrase (used only in Gal6:16): "the Israel of God" which is referring to those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE (it says NOTHING of Gentiles who believed / believe--that's not who THIS phrase is referring to)]
 
Aug 2, 2021
7,317
2,048
113
#80
You apparently did not read my post. ;)





[note to the readers: my reference was specifically to the phrase (used only in Gal6:16): "the Israel of God" which is referring to those of Israel WHO BELIEVED / BELIEVE (it says NOTHING of Gentiles who believed / believe--that's not who THIS phrase is referring to)]
Brother, i read your post.

Why are you unable to see what our LORD and the Apostles wrote about how the Israel of the flesh are not the Israel of God.

#1 That God created the Jewish people for His Glory upon which our Lord and Savior came in the flesh.

#2 That God has not cast away the Jewish People whom HE forenknew and HE has a plan to restore them.

#3 That the Spiritual Eternal Israel of God began in Genesis and because of Messiah's Sacrifice it includes ALL Nations whom God will call into One Body = the Body of Christ = the Israel of God.

#4 WHEN, the LORD Jesus Christ restores the Jewish People (Matthew 23:37) they will be grafted back into the ONE TREE of LIFE.

#5 There is only ONE TREE that believing Jews and Gentiles are assimulated into by the Blood of Yeshua the Messiah.