Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked
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The way a person receives eternal salvation spirit is by obeying Jesus Christ.
There is no scripture that you can post that refutes this truth.
And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him. Hebrews 5:9
Otherwise you are promoting the Satanic idea that those who disobey Him will receive eternal salvation.
Do you believe those who disobey Him will receive eternal salvation?
JPT
This is very weird terminology, to say the least.
What do you mean by "eternal salvation spirit" anyway? The Bible NEVER uses such terminology. Why do you make up stuff?
Really? then PROVE your claim by quoting a verse that SAYS what your terminology SAYS. I don't have to disprove your weird terminology, but YOU DO have to defend it by showing Scripture that SAYS what you SAY.
You see, I study the Bible the SAME WAY the Bereans did. When Paul came preaching, they compared what he SAID to what Scripture SAID.
When ALL of Scripture is compared, we know that to "obey Him" or "obey the gospel" means to BELIEVE IN HIM.
You just keep loving to insert your system of works salvation into it.
You yourself are disobeying Him by your twisted view of how to be saved.
Here is what I believe, so pay close attention. I'm tired of having to keep repeating myself to you.
Those who place their faith/trust/belief in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for their sins will receive the gift of eternal life, per John 5:24, a verse that you cannot refute.
Then, because those who have placed their faith/trust/belief in Christ and have received the gift of eternal life, Jesus said they shall never perish in John 10:28, a verse that smashes your theology to little bits.
Define "disobey" please. Then I will specifically answer your question.
But I shouldn't have to because of what I just explained. Those who believe shall never perish. That's solid Bible.
Every time a believer sins they ARE disobeying Jesus. Do you believe that WHEN a believer sins (disobeys jesus) they lose their salvation?
What do you mean by "eternal salvation spirit" anyway? The Bible NEVER uses such terminology. Why do you make up stuff?
Really? then PROVE your claim by quoting a verse that SAYS what your terminology SAYS. I don't have to disprove your weird terminology, but YOU DO have to defend it by showing Scripture that SAYS what you SAY.
You see, I study the Bible the SAME WAY the Bereans did. When Paul came preaching, they compared what he SAID to what Scripture SAID.
When ALL of Scripture is compared, we know that to "obey Him" or "obey the gospel" means to BELIEVE IN HIM.
You just keep loving to insert your system of works salvation into it.
You yourself are disobeying Him by your twisted view of how to be saved.
Here is what I believe, so pay close attention. I'm tired of having to keep repeating myself to you.
Those who place their faith/trust/belief in the work of Jesus Christ on the cross for their sins will receive the gift of eternal life, per John 5:24, a verse that you cannot refute.
Then, because those who have placed their faith/trust/belief in Christ and have received the gift of eternal life, Jesus said they shall never perish in John 10:28, a verse that smashes your theology to little bits.
Define "disobey" please. Then I will specifically answer your question.
But I shouldn't have to because of what I just explained. Those who believe shall never perish. That's solid Bible.
Every time a believer sins they ARE disobeying Jesus. Do you believe that WHEN a believer sins (disobeys jesus) they lose their salvation?
What's so funny about that phrase? Unbelievers do that all the time.
In fact, that's nearly what Paul told the orthodox Jews in Pisidian Antioch:
Acts 13:46 - Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
In fact, that's nearly what Paul told the orthodox Jews in Pisidian Antioch:
Acts 13:46 - Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.
op: God's ETERNAL Salvation?
How ridiculous and absurd is it to "ask God for forgiveness and
His Free Gift Of ETERNAL Life," and then to turn right around and
teach others the Totally Opposite doctrine of "I myself, despite
what God Did, have the infinite ability to forfeit God's ETERNAL
Salvation, which is really only temporary."
Conclusion: "Christ Died In Vain!" for you. + Unsound doctrine
will not bode well on JUDGMENT Day, or will it?
Grace, Peace, And JOY In God's ETERNAL Salvation and What
HE Has ETERNALLY Done For HIS ETERNAL children! Amen?
How ridiculous and absurd is it to "ask God for forgiveness and
His Free Gift Of ETERNAL Life," and then to turn right around and
teach others the Totally Opposite doctrine of "I myself, despite
what God Did, have the infinite ability to forfeit God's ETERNAL
Salvation, which is really only temporary."
Conclusion: "Christ Died In Vain!" for you. + Unsound doctrine
will not bode well on JUDGMENT Day, or will it?
Grace, Peace, And JOY In God's ETERNAL Salvation and What
HE Has ETERNALLY Done For HIS ETERNAL children! Amen?
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Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Every single person who is saved was saved from sins. Whether you were a murderer, liar, thief, covetous, fornicator, or whatever, Jesus blood can wash away your sins if you receive the redeeming blood that was poured out on the cross by faith.
1Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
If you continue to live as a fornicator or idolater or adulterer after having your "salvation experience" know that you will not inherit the kingdom of God. There are no caveats about "saved fornicators" or "Idolaters who also believe in Jesus".
1Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The same is true of covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners. Michael Corleone can go into confession with the priest, confess all his sins, ask to be forgiven and then go out and continue to steal and extort, he is not saved from those sins.
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes, the blood washes our conscience clean and we can stand before God. But if we continue to sin we are stained again and must repent. To repent does mean you feel bad about sinning, it means you make a 180 degree turn away from sinning. If your computer is causing you to sin, then throw it away. That would be evidence that you have repented of sinning. If your affiliation with gang members or drug addicts or fornicators is causing you to sin, then cut off those friendships. Move, get a new job, get new friends, these would all be evidence of someone who is truly repenting.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Some people teach that they can be an unclean person and saved at the same time. That is baloney.
Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Are you serving the Lord Jesus Christ or mammon? The Lord knows who are his and who aren't. Saying some prayer twenty years ago is not "serving the Lord" in the present tense.
Hebrews 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Are you diligently pursuing the Lord, working to build up your faith and doing this work with patience? Or are you slothful? In other words, let's forget about the prayer you made 20 years ago and talk about your prayers in the last 24 hours.
Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Do you have a root of bitterness growing up in you? Do you have unforgiveness? Do you continue to practice fornication? The word profane simply means you are common, you are not sanctified, you are not godly, no one can tell the difference between you and an unbeiever.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Are you an overcomer? If not stop talking about being saved and instead focus on what it takes to become an overcomer. There is no middle ground, either you are an overcomer or you are being overcome.
Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Every single person who is saved was saved from sins. Whether you were a murderer, liar, thief, covetous, fornicator, or whatever, Jesus blood can wash away your sins if you receive the redeeming blood that was poured out on the cross by faith.
1Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
If you continue to live as a fornicator or idolater or adulterer after having your "salvation experience" know that you will not inherit the kingdom of God. There are no caveats about "saved fornicators" or "Idolaters who also believe in Jesus".
1Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
The same is true of covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners. Michael Corleone can go into confession with the priest, confess all his sins, ask to be forgiven and then go out and continue to steal and extort, he is not saved from those sins.
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Yes, the blood washes our conscience clean and we can stand before God. But if we continue to sin we are stained again and must repent. To repent does mean you feel bad about sinning, it means you make a 180 degree turn away from sinning. If your computer is causing you to sin, then throw it away. That would be evidence that you have repented of sinning. If your affiliation with gang members or drug addicts or fornicators is causing you to sin, then cut off those friendships. Move, get a new job, get new friends, these would all be evidence of someone who is truly repenting.
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Some people teach that they can be an unclean person and saved at the same time. That is baloney.
Colossians 3:24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Are you serving the Lord Jesus Christ or mammon? The Lord knows who are his and who aren't. Saying some prayer twenty years ago is not "serving the Lord" in the present tense.
Hebrews 6:12 That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
Are you diligently pursuing the Lord, working to build up your faith and doing this work with patience? Or are you slothful? In other words, let's forget about the prayer you made 20 years ago and talk about your prayers in the last 24 hours.
Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled; 16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. 17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.
Do you have a root of bitterness growing up in you? Do you have unforgiveness? Do you continue to practice fornication? The word profane simply means you are common, you are not sanctified, you are not godly, no one can tell the difference between you and an unbeiever.
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Are you an overcomer? If not stop talking about being saved and instead focus on what it takes to become an overcomer. There is no middle ground, either you are an overcomer or you are being overcome.
FreeGrace2 said:
So then, what's so funny about what you told your soul to do, if you are a believer?
Kinda like saying, "ever meet yourself?"
Well, have you?
So then, what's so funny about what you told your soul to do, if you are a believer?
Kinda like saying, "ever meet yourself?"
Well, have you?
To be clear, Jesus Christ paid the full sin debt on the cross for everyone in the human race.
2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
So, no one will be sent to the LOF on the basis of their sins!
So, what is the basis of being sent to the LOF then?
Real simple. Both the Bema and GWT judgments are judgments based on works. Both of them.
Bema is for believers only: 2 Cor 5:10 - For we (believers) must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
This judgment will determine whether the believer earned reward or not.
GWT judgment is for unbelievers only: Rev 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Works won't determine whether anyone will be thrown into the LOF. Rather, the GWT judgment will determine how "tolerable" or "bearable" it will be for the unbeliever.
We know this from what Jesus said:
Matt 10:15 - 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
So, no one will be sent to the LOF on the basis of their sins!
So, what is the basis of being sent to the LOF then?
Real simple. Both the Bema and GWT judgments are judgments based on works. Both of them.
Bema is for believers only: 2 Cor 5:10 - For we (believers) must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
This judgment will determine whether the believer earned reward or not.
GWT judgment is for unbelievers only: Rev 20:11-15
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Works won't determine whether anyone will be thrown into the LOF. Rather, the GWT judgment will determine how "tolerable" or "bearable" it will be for the unbeliever.
We know this from what Jesus said:
Matt 10:15 - 15 Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
To be clear, Jesus Christ paid the full sin debt on the cross for everyone in the human race.
2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
So, no one will be sent to the LOF on the basis of their sins!
2 Cor 5:19 - that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
So, no one will be sent to the LOF on the basis of their sins!
I find this a confusing mash of ideas. There are works that are sinful. I have no idea what you mean by dividing between sin and works.
Adultery can be seen as a "work of the flesh" but also it is clearly defined in the ten commandments as sin. So I don't see any benefit in saying that no one is sent to the LOF for sins. Yes, Jesus blood has the power to cleanse every person's sin regardless how heinous and how horrible, but you have to receive it. Just because I have laundry detergent that will clean my clothes I still have to wash them in it. Jesus has made His blood available, free of charge, to all people. But not all will receive it, not all will humble themselves to be washed in the blood.
The Bible is clear about works of the flesh and the sinful lifestyles that we will not see in the Kingdom of the heavens. There is no need to come up with all kinds of confusing non biblical and extra biblical teachings.
This is one example of the clear word of God
Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Correct, and don't OVERLOOK the wording to whom this applies.
The UNrighteous [UNbelievers] shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The righteous [believers] "are Already translated [placed] in the kingdom," ETERNALLY! (Col 1:13 + 6 Dozen Verses + 6 Dozen More Passages)
God Has NO such thing as a "yo-yo" Salvation.
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ And HIS Free Gift = ETERNAL Life!
The UNrighteous [UNbelievers] shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
The righteous [believers] "are Already translated [placed] in the kingdom," ETERNALLY! (Col 1:13 + 6 Dozen Verses + 6 Dozen More Passages)
God Has NO such thing as a "yo-yo" Salvation.
Grace, Peace, And JOY In Christ And HIS Free Gift = ETERNAL Life!
As long as we understand that
1Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
You purify your soul by obeying the truth.
1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
You have to obey the gospel. The apostasy picks and chooses which verses they will keep and which ones they will ignore. That means they don't obey the gospel.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Yes, if you obey Jesus He becomes the author of your salvation. But not if you don't.
2Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
If you don't obey the apostle's fellowship there is no need to discuss anything. I and all genuine believers are instructed to mark you and avoid you.
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Anyone who listens to any teaching that says you don't have to obey the fellowship in the NT is a fool.
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
The doctrine in the NT doesn't just cause us to be forgiven of sins, it delivers us from sins. Drug addicts are not simply forgiven they are delivered. Fornicators are not simply forgiven they are delivered.
1Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
You purify your soul by obeying the truth.
1Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
You have to obey the gospel. The apostasy picks and chooses which verses they will keep and which ones they will ignore. That means they don't obey the gospel.
Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Yes, if you obey Jesus He becomes the author of your salvation. But not if you don't.
2Thessalonians 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.
If you don't obey the apostle's fellowship there is no need to discuss anything. I and all genuine believers are instructed to mark you and avoid you.
Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Anyone who listens to any teaching that says you don't have to obey the fellowship in the NT is a fool.
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
The doctrine in the NT doesn't just cause us to be forgiven of sins, it delivers us from sins. Drug addicts are not simply forgiven they are delivered. Fornicators are not simply forgiven they are delivered.