Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

renewed

Has nothing to do with race
intentionally obtuse.

Recipients
The letter was addressed primarily to Jewish converts who were familiar with the OT and who were being tempted to revert to Judaism or to Judaize the gospel (cf. Gal 2:14). Some have suggested that these professing Jewish Christians were thinking of merging with a Jewish sect, such as the one at Qumran near the Dead Sea. It has also been suggested that the recipients were from the "large number of priests who became obedient to the faith" (Acs 6:7).
https://www.biblestudytools.com/hebrews/

Salvation has nothing to do with race, thats what the proud jews thought.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

You stated in Post #2470 that "one is only born again once" and you continue to claim that "one must be born again to believe"

Yet one is not born again until he/sh

Believing in Jesus is the fruit of having been born again, believing in the True Jesus that is. Many today are believing in a jesus manufactured by men, wont cut it in the day of Judgment
1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

In your Post 2499, you highlighted one of the definitions of the word kosmos (#8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort.

Correct because that defines a world ! Say for instance the world Abraham and his seed are heirs of Rom 4:13

13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Thats not everyone in the world, but a gathering together of all the Spiritual seed of Abraham, all the believers.

People have abused the word world in scripture,, it very rarely means all individuals without exception.

Like in Jn 12:19

19 The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world[kosmos] is gone after him.

World here means only much people !

This world excluded many, like the pharisees and scribes. So you will be held accountable how you parade this word world as it is used in scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Those who in Jn 1:12 received Christ, believed on His Name, did so because they had been born of God
You again manipulate Scripture in order to support your erroneous dogma ... you are reading the verses as if the Author of Scripture had placed vs 13 before vs 12. Please read Scripture as the Author of Scripture intended.

John 1:

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


vs 11 – those who rejected were not granted power to become the sons of God

vs 12 – those who did not reject, but received Him and believed on His name to these gave He power to become the sons of God

vs 13 – those He gave power to become the sons of God were then born of God.

Again, those who believed on Him, who received Him had been born of God. If anyone ever believes in the True Christ, its because they were born of God !

So according to you, a person is "regenerate" before "hearing the Gospel of their Salvation"??? Is that really what your dogma teaches?

According to scripture. Jesus said its those who are of God that hears Gods words Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

If a person can only "hear" after "regeneration", then you've got a problem with the parable of the sower.

No you have a problem. Im speaking about spiritual hearing, which a spiritually dead sinner cant do, yet they may naturally hear, but that doesnt count, in Spiritual concerns.

Thats all the seed of Abraham, from jews and gentiles Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 1 John 2:2

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


The "world" of John 1:29 and John 3:16-17 and "the whole world" of 1 John 2:2 refers to "5. the inhabitants of the world; ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".

Already discussed, the word world also simply means:
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g2889/kjv/tr/0-1/

The word world means at times much people as Per Jn 12:19

The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him.

The world that Abraham and his seed are heirs of Rom 4:13

For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Again, brightfame52, here is your claim:

"Unbelief is a sin Christ died for, so its never laid to the charge of Gods elect". Post 2325.

After I pointed out the error of your dogma, you then modified your claim (red mine):
"So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect" Post 2503


Please clarify your claim ...

Is your claim that sin is never laid to the charge of God's elect? ...

or is your claim that sin is never laid again to the charge of God's elect? ...

and at what point is sin never laid [again] to the charge of God's elect? ... is it before they are ever born? ... or is it after they are born again (regenerated)?
.

Its clarified, sin, whether adultery', murder, unbelief, whatever, cant be laid to the charge of Gods elect, simply because all their sins have already been laid to the charge of Christ and He died in their stead for those sins. God isn't into double jeopardy, you know what that is ?

Yes its before they are ever born, Christ became the surety of Gods elect before the foundation, so much so, He is said to be slain from the foundation of the world Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So what was He slain for ?

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

brightfame52 said:

You bring up human faith, the bible never does.
... more of your projecting on to me your own behavior because you do not believe the Author of Scripture when He says there is one faith (Eph 4:5).

In this thread, you first introduced your concept of "human faith" in Post 1715. And ever since then, you will not let go of your error. You cling to your error to the point where you now claim that I am the one who "bring up human faith, the bible never does", even though I have been telling you that you are in error since you first introduced your "human faith" fallacy.

I have maintained throughout the pages of this thread that there is only one faith (Eph 4:5) and that unbelievers believe error with the same "faith" the believer believes truth.

Ephesians 4:6 states that there is one God yet atheists believe there is no God ... and pagans believe there are many gods ...

does that change the fact that there is only one God? ... or does that change God into some sort of "human God"? No! of course not. But you change one faith into something never intended by the Author of Scripture in order to support your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, get rid of the error.

You, on the other hand, manipulate Scripture to fit your dogma, you end up making stuff up, and then have the audacity to claim I am the one who has done what you first did and continue to do even though I have consistently maintained there is only one faith.




brightfame52 said:
Eph 4:5 isn't about your novelty of human faith.
Excuse me? Your "novelty of human faith" is all your doing because you refuse to believe Eph 4:5.




brightfame52 said:
So since you bring it into the equation you must deal with the consequences
Your made up scenario does not affect me in the least.

And I understand why you have to claim more than one faith (Eph 4:5). Because you have to align Scripture to your dogma. But you are not to align Scripture to your dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, let go of the error. Your "human faith" fallacy is error. Let it go ...

Again you bring up human faith into the equation of Salvation matters, then you have to deal with the consequences, Salvation by law keeping Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Good luck in the day of Judgment !

I still dont see why you are making this point.
Because you claim that the Lord Jesus Christ was raised from the dead "because of our justification" as if His resurrection from the dead hinges on mankind.

The claim is true Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

And its not talking about all mankind, but only the Just/Justified

The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the dead even if no descendant of Adam believed. Death could never, ever hold Him ... because it was not possible that He should be holden of it.

You give mankind way too much credit when it comes to Who is the focus/subject of Scripture. The whole of Scripture is focused on the Lord Jesus Christ. Mankind pales in comparison. That God would even mention mankind is due to His magnificent grace, mercy, lovingkindness.

I dont know what you talking about. Christ died for the sins of Gods people, and was raised again because His death put away their sins, and Justified them. Thats why death couldn't hold Him because He successfully put away the sins of the people He was charged with, and God accepted His sacrifice, and proved it by raising Him from the dead, Justifying Him and them ! And this applies onlu to the Just/justified, not the whole world. He died only for them who are Justified , Gods elect !

Like I said "I believe in the resurrection of Christ more than you do " You dont even know what it signified.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

the one who is "judging" is the one who claims that "its my privilege to tell ya that they really don’t believe it at all !" ... and that would be none other than brightfame52 (Post 2329) as if you know what a person believes in his/her heart.

Again, since it appears you have again missed the point ... you cannot tell me or anyone else that they "really don’t believe [Scripture] at all !" just because I or anyone else do not hold to your manipulated version of Scripture.

Its the epitome of hypocrisy and pride to charge someone with judging someone, when you doing the very same thing Rom 2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

nope ... that's all your doing with your "human faith" fallacy.
.

You and your law keeping faith Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Thats your one faith

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

you reject Justification
nope ... again I reject your manipulation of Scripture which you must maintain in order to support your erroneous dogma.

You reject Justification the doctrine of God

 

[brightfame52]

oh brother ... more erroneous nonsense to prop up your erroneous dogma.

when will you stop and just believe Scripture as written by its Author????
.

Romans 5 is all about Gods elect, Vs 12ff is about their contrasted experience in their natural head adam, and their Spiritual head Christ

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

What you refuse to acknowledge is that God Who justifies the ungodly imputes righteousness to the one who believes. The moment the person believes, he/she is no longer ungodly.

God imputed righteousness to them before they believed, while being ungodly, then afterwards He gives them faith believe it.

When I pointed that fact out to you, your response was "Thats false" (Post 2514), even though you previously stated "its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state" (Post 910).

Right a believer has been delivered from a ungodly state, but he was justified before God, by the blood of Christ, before he became a believer, and that is why he became a believer.

that the elect "are Justified while unregenerate" or the elect are "justified before faith, while being ungodly".

Thats correct, the elect were justified before they were regenerate by the blood of Christ, in the same manner as they were reconciled to God by Christs blood while they were unregenerate enemies Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies/ungodly, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

See same thing, Amen to Grace !

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Abraham was Justified[counted righteous] before God while being ungodly, thats why God gave him Faith to believe it, and so it is with all the Spiritual Seed of Abraham

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

Abel was Justified while ungodly, God gave him Faith which testified that he was righteous. Whoever is secretly righteous by the death of Christ, will in due time be given faith to believe it. God will send them the Gospel, so they can hear it and believe.

brightfame52 said:
Now to prove that this being made Righteous and or Justified before God is prior to any acts of Gospel Obedience from the sinner, and while they are yet ungodly, we will look at Rom 4:25
You plucking the verse out of the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed it and then insisting the verse "proves" that anyone is "made Righteous and or Justified before God ... prior to any acts of Gospel Obedience from the sinner" is nothing but your own eisegesis.


Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Again, Rom 4:25 rebukes your unbelief, because it shows that Jesus Christ was raised from the dead for/because of the Justification of them He died for

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

You are in total opposition to the testimony of Christs resurrection. If He had not risen, then that would signal the believers faith is vain because they would still be in their sins 1 Cor 15:14,17

14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

But since Christ was raised for their Justification, they are not still in their sins, Christ took them away, so Faith is given to them, God sends them the Gospel, and faith cometh by hearing, that Christ took away their sins and Justified them before God.

Everyone who Christ died for, and Justified, or made righteous, shall live by Faith, they will be given Faith Rom 1:16-17


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... this is nothing but your erroneous dogma that one is "regenerate" (born again) in order to believe the gospel by which we are born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

Yes Justification[before God] is before Faith in Christ, in fact Faith is the consequent and evidence of having been Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

When were they Justified by His Blood ? At the Cross, and He rose for their Justification Rom 4:25. Now how do they now know they were Justified by His Blood at the Cross ? By Faith they know !

 

[brightfame52]

nope ... this is nothing but your erroneous dogma that one is "regenerate" (born again) in order to believe the gospel by which we are born again.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
.

The ones who are already Justified by the death of Christ, are caused to be born again, then they hear and believe the Gospel preached to them. Before a person believes the gospel 3 things must have previously occurred , #1 Be of Gods elect 1 Pet 1:2 #2 They had to redeemed by the blood of Christ, which Justified them 1 Pet 1:18-19, #3 be born again through the resurrection of Jesus Christ 1 Pet 1:3
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1 Pet 1:23 The word of God there is Christ, the incorruptible seed, He causes the elect to be born again, same word in 1 Pet 1:3 begotten again, then being born again they can hear spiritually the Gospel and believe.

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Please address the issue raised:

You claimed in Post 910:
"its no where in scripture where the believer in Christ is stated to be the ungodly or in a ungodly state".

You claimed in Post 2514:
"That’s false" when I told you "Once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly"."

You hold opposing views because your statements conflict with each other ...

On the one hand you claim "no where in Scripture" is the believer "stated to be ungodly"; and

On the other hand you claim "That’s false" when you are told once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly"

You the one confused. God justifies the ungodly, plain and simple, He justifies a person Christ died for, while they are a ungodly, unregenerate, unbelieving sinner.

Then He regenerates that sinner, at the point technically he is no more ungodly, but a new creation, then he believes in Christ, yet he understands that they were justified by the blood of Christ before they believed.

False. Thats like saying Christ didn't die for any sinner before they were born.
no it's not. It's actually "like saying" exactly what is written in Scripture.

Yes it is. For instance, Christ died for certain peoples sins back in 33 ad, now some of those certain were born in 1952, 1957 ad. Well they were Justified before God by the death of Christ back in 33 ad when Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification ! You think God and Christ didn't know whose sins were laid upon Christ back in 33 ad, just because they hadn't been born yet ? Thats ignorance. So those certain ones were born already Justified by Christs death from all their sins placed on Christ, even their native, natural unbelief.

It is true that the elect are born ungodly as is the non elect, but its also true that the elect, though born ungodly, are nevertheless Justified and accounted righteous when they are born
nope ... not true. If they are "accounted righteous when they are born", they have no need for God to impute righteousness to them at the time they believe.

Yes it is True, man believing doesnt add a thing to the Justifying death of Christ. Yes they are accounted righteous before they are born, by the death of Christ, thats why they believe. Only those already righteous by the death of Christ have the right to believe.

Righteousness is imputed to us when we believe. The moment we believe, God imputes righteousness to us and we are then justified.

False, righteousness was imputed when God imputed the elects sins to Christ, when He was made sin for them 2 Cor 5:21

21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Thats the great exchange which you probably know nothing about

I know what Rom 4:25 says
It's not enough to "know what Rom 4:25 says". The issue is do you believe what is written?

Apparently you dont know what Rom 4:25 says, nor do you believe the witness of Christs resurrection that testifies that those people Christ died for are justified. Believing had nothing to do with it, only what Christ did, you reject that testimony, maybe God will give you repentance, because right now you in grave error.

reneweddaybyday said:
No one is justified "before they were born again"
That’s folly
nope ... truth of Scripture.

You are in denial of the Justifying death of Christ. Its simple, if a person Christ died for, was born a sinner after Christ died for them, then they are born a sinner already Justified from all the sins of theirs Christ died for. duh

What you think, Christ died for their sins in 33 ad, they are born a sinner in 1952, so God retracks the sins back from sin paid for, and puts them back on the sinners account and wait for the sinner to believe, then He takes the sins away again ? lol You giving more credit to the believing act than to Christs dying putting away their sins act !

 

[brightfame52]

1214

nope ... what I deny is your erroneous dogma that a descendant of Adam is "born Justified" or that a born again believer is "ungodly".

Every descendant of Adam is "ungodly" until the moment God imputes righteousness unto him or her. At that point, he or she is no longer "ungodly" because God has imputed righteous to him/her.

No you deny the Truth. A person who Christ died for is Justified [declared righteous]legally at the Cross, by Blood, even while ungodly, then sometimes in their lifetime God gives them new life which is regeneration, and with that Faith to believe the Gospel. They were no more ungodly when they were regenerated Yet they were declared righteous before they were born, and while an ungodly unbeliever. If you dont believe that, you dont believe Rom 4:5 !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

According to Thayer's, righteousness ...

"denotes the state acceptable to God which becomes a sinner's possession through that faith by which he embraces the grace of God offered him in the expiatory death of Jesus Christ (see δικαιόω, 3 b.). In this sense ἡ δικαιοσύνη is used without an adjunct in Romans 4:5"

Thayer is offering his own theological bias here, The grace of God is never offered, its given or bestowed, and the righteousness the elect sinners have is imputed to them before they are born on the platform of the finished work of Christ. Now sooner or later the Justified ungodly sinner will be quickened to life, and given the Gift of Faith, and then they receive or possess or embrace in their mind and heart that Righteousness that made them acceptable to God based upon the finish work of Christ !

Is it Scriptural to teach that we can "continue being ungodly sinners" or is it Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof ???

I dont know what you talking about, sounds like a different subject

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

They were Justified as ungodly
They are justified the instant they believe. And once they are justified, they are no longer "ungodly"

Error, Didn't Christ die for them prior to the moment they believed ? If yes, then they were justified before God prior to the moment they believed. Christ Justified them, not believing. Believing believes that Christ Justified me at the Cross by His Blood.

brightfame52 said:
come out the womb with righteousness imputed to them
If that were true then there would be no need for God to further impute righteousness to them.

He doesnt, He just causes them to believe what has already been imputed from the Cross of Christ.

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ


vs 24 – shall be [Greek mellō] imputed [Greek logizomai] – both Greek words are in the present tense, which means the person did not "come out the womb with righteousness imputed to them". Righteousness is imputed when the person believes (the word "believes" is also present tense).


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!

Rom 4:25 is key to understand this passage, We know that when Christ rose from the dead it was for or because the ones He died for are Justified.

brightfame52 said:

reneweddaybyday said:
ummmmm, this is nothing but more of your manipulation of Scripture in order to prop up your erroneous dogma.

The word "acknowledging" is translated from the Greek word epignōsis.

The word "belief" or "believe(ing)" is translated from the Greek word pistis (noun) or pisteuō (verb).
lol, they the same thing
really? You sure you want to stick with that answer?

Yep sure

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

how did the blood get there, brightfame52?

Exodus 12:7 And they [the children of Israel] shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

Someone from each home had to take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post.


Exodus 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.

If no blood on the door posts, God's stated judgment would fall on that house.

That was just the type, with the antitype, Christ is the passover lamb and the ones He died for had nothing to do with it, Christ did it all 1 Cor 5:7

Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

When God saw His Blood, He passover His Israel

brightfame52 said:
2 Thess 1:9

Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

And that is not because He sees our Faith
Instead of ripping the verse from the context within which the Author of Scripture placed it, read what's written in vs 8, brightfame52:

2 Thessalonians 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ

Those who reject [i.e. obey not] the gospel are the ones who shall be punished with everlasting destruction (2 Thess 1:9).

I dont know what the context is here, you didn't quote it properly, but in any case, the only ones that dont believe are those who aren't part of the Sheepfold Christ died for, Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And if they not His Sheep He didn't die for them Jn 10:11,15. Nobody Christ didnt die for are going to obey His Gospel !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

Ripping verses from the context within which the Author of Scripture has placed them is not proper interpretation of Scripture.

You just rejecting truth found in scripture, thats a lame excuse

brightfame52 said:
His resurrection is evidence that those He died for are Justified
nope. His resurrection is evidence that He is the Son of God ...

Yes it is, it is both. He rose for the Justification of those He died for Rom 4:25


Who was betrayed and put to death because of our misdeeds and was raised to secure our justification (our acquittal), [making our account balance and absolving us from all guilt before God]. AMPC

EXB
Jesus was ·given to die [handed/delivered over; 8:32] ·for [because of] our ·sins [violations; transgressions], and he was raised from the dead ·to make us right with God [for our justification; or to confirm our justification].

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Genesis 3:

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

I believe the Lord Jesus Christ is the "Seed of the woman" promised in Gen 3:15.

The Lord God spoke to the serpent and said that He was put enmity between him and woman and his seed and her seed. So does the serpent have a seed ? Why did God say that ?

Interesting ... the promise by God concerning Messiah, the Lord Jesus Christ ... and all you're interested in is the seed of the serpent ...
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

you are saying Christs death and blood was worthless.

... nope … those words have come solely from your keyboard.

But that does not stop you from claiming I stated what only you have submitted.

Your erroneous dogma has you deceiving yourself and making false claims against me.

brightfame52 aka accuser of the brethren

Thats the conclusion I may draw on a fair basis

nope ... from Day 1 of you claiming I submitted those words I have denied your claim and you have provided no post submitted by me wherein I made the claim.

Therefore, the only conclusion you may "draw on a fair basis" is that you are the only one on this thread who has submitted that statement.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

I read Scripture just as written ...

I do not replace the world ... the whole world ... whosoever

with the "elect"

That is all your doing because you hold to your erroneous dogma rather than align your dogma with Scripture. Where your dogma is in error, you are to let go of the error and hold to Scripture.

Im not replacing anything, world in the Salvation passages means Gods elect from amongst the jews and gentiles.

You sure are. You can deny all you want but all who read this thread see your manipulation of Scripture.

The only atonement the scripture teaches is limited to Gods elect

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

In the NT, the word "atonement" is translated from the Greek word katallagē. In the above verse, the words "reconciling" and "reconciliation" are translated from forms of the Greek word katallagē.

no matter how much you appeal to words like World or whole world, or all and every

According to Thayer's, the word "world" in 2 Cor 5:19 means "the inhabitants of the world; particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race" (definition #5).

anyone not saved, had no part in Christs atonement !

Actually, those "not saved" have no excuse when they stand before God come judgment day:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


Rom 1:18-20 tells us that God makes plain His eternal power and Godhead ... however, this truth is suppressed. The words "who hold" in vs 18 are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress; hold back; restrain. When the Word of God is spoken, the hearer restrains the truth from reaching his/her heart.

It is clear from vs 19 that God reveals His eternal power and Godhead and it is clear from vs 18 that it is the person who rejects God.

The ones who do not come to repentance reject that which God "grants" to them. It's not that they can't believe ... it's that they reject that which is to be believed, even though what is to be believed has been revealed to them.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

You have again botched your reply in your Post #2632.

I am not going to respond to posts you submit where you include your statement in a quote in which it appears I made the statement. I will point out that you have botched your response, but I'm not going to take the time to figure out who said what.

You need to learn how to submit posts so that it is clear as to who said what.


Quit acting like such a buffoon ... Learn how to properly submit posts in the Christian Chat forum. There's a "User2User Tech Support" forum where you can chat with other users who are much more adept at submitting posts than you are. Go there and find out what you need to do in order to submit a post without mangling the discussion.
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