Who Justifieth the Ungodly
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We were discussing what is written in Galatians 3 and you now jump to Philippians 1 without ever addressing what we were discussing in Galatians 3:
the verse does not state that faith "will be given".
Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
The verse states that the promise ... will be given to those who believe.
Another futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma fails again.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
Intentionally obtuse.
It is the promise that is given.
Just more of your manipulation of Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God" !
And Galatians 3 says what it says and there is a reason you will not acknowledge that Galatians 3 clearly states that it is the promise which is received through faith.
Do not deny what is written in Galatians 3.
You stated in Post #2470 that "one is only born again once" and you continue to claim that "one must be born again to believe the Gospel !"
Yet it is through believing the gospel that one is born again.
So you've got a person "born again" in order to be "born again".
So under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
In the parable in Matt 13, there is no mention that faith was withheld from some and given to others. In fact, it is clear that all "heard".
In the parable of Matt 13, those who "hear" but do not "believe" are described in vs 19, vss 20-21, and vs 22.
And we read about those who do not "believe" even though God hath shewed it unto them in Romans 1:18-19 ...
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
In the parable of Matt 13, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are those described in vs 19, vss 20-21, and vs 22.
In the parable of Matt 13, the believer is described in Matt 13:23 ... these folks "hear" and "believe".
And we read about those who "believe" in Eph 1:13 ...
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
after you heard, you believed
after you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated, born again).
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the verse does not state that faith "will be given".Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
The verse states that the promise ... will be given to those who believe.
Another futile attempt to manipulate Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma fails again.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
Intentionally obtuse.It is the promise that is given.
Just more of your manipulation of Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God" !
And Galatians 3 says what it says and there is a reason you will not acknowledge that Galatians 3 clearly states that it is the promise which is received through faith.
Do not deny what is written in Galatians 3.
You stated in Post #2470 that "one is only born again once" and you continue to claim that "one must be born again to believe the Gospel !"
Yet it is through believing the gospel that one is born again.
So you've got a person "born again" in order to be "born again".
So under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
In the parable in Matt 13, there is no mention that faith was withheld from some and given to others. In fact, it is clear that all "heard".
In the parable of Matt 13, those who "hear" but do not "believe" are described in vs 19, vss 20-21, and vs 22.
And we read about those who do not "believe" even though God hath shewed it unto them in Romans 1:18-19 ...
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
In the parable of Matt 13, those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are those described in vs 19, vss 20-21, and vs 22.
In the parable of Matt 13, the believer is described in Matt 13:23 ... these folks "hear" and "believe".
And we read about those who "believe" in Eph 1:13 ...
Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
after you heard, you believed
after you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated, born again).
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again, brightfame52, please explain what "spiritual insight" is required to understand what is written in Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Even atheists can understand what is written there.
The issue is not that they do not understand. The issue is that they reject the truth when they read and understand it.
They reject, not because God did not "by His Spirit Illuminates the understanding".
They reject, not because God withheld anything from them.
They reject because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... even though God has showed it to them:
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
In Romans 1:18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.
There you go, feeding your flesh again. You feel better now???
Me telling you to quit telling folks they they will never understand when they read their Bibles is opposing "the Truth of God"???
Why don't you go to God and ask Him if He wants folks to quit reading their Bibles.
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Psalm 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
You really want to continue to insist that folks should leave their Bibles "setting around collecting dust" because the Word of God is just "words written on paper"???
that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I "oppose Scripture".
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Even atheists can understand what is written there.
The issue is not that they do not understand. The issue is that they reject the truth when they read and understand it.
They reject, not because God did not "by His Spirit Illuminates the understanding".
They reject, not because God withheld anything from them.
They reject because they suppress the truth in unrighteousness ... even though God has showed it to them:
Romans 1:
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
In Romans 1:18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.
There you go, feeding your flesh again. You feel better now???
Me telling you to quit telling folks they they will never understand when they read their Bibles is opposing "the Truth of God"???
Why don't you go to God and ask Him if He wants folks to quit reading their Bibles.
Deuteronomy 6:6-9 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
Psalm 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
Psalm 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
1 Peter 2:2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
You really want to continue to insist that folks should leave their Bibles "setting around collecting dust" because the Word of God is just "words written on paper"???
that I reject your erroneous dogma does not mean I "oppose Scripture"..
Again, since you are the only one who keeps insisting "Faith its law keeping", it is you who is communicating "Faith its law keeping".
Scripture clearly states that faith ≠ works:
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
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Scripture clearly states that faith ≠ works:
Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness
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That is not how the verse is written, brightfame52.
In order to believe that, here is your re-write of the verse:
Do you not see how you have to manipulate God's Word in order to have the verse state what you claim???
And let's consider Matt 13 which you brought up in your Post 2550 ...
Matthew 13:
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Since it is clear that he heareth the word, and (according to you) he can only hear the word if he is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, then the person spoken of in Matt 13:20-21 is born again.
Once a person is born again, he/she is a child of God and God will never, ever forsake him/her. A born again believer cannot become unborn.
Your erroneous dogma has you tied in knots. You've got Scripture contradicting Scripture ... and for what??? ... because you're trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma???
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, get rid of the error ... don't hold to your error and toss Scripture out.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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In order to believe that, here is your re-write of the verse:
After ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, after you heard you believed.
Do you not see how you have to manipulate God's Word in order to have the verse state what you claim???
And let's consider Matt 13 which you brought up in your Post 2550 ...
Matthew 13:
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
Since it is clear that he heareth the word, and (according to you) he can only hear the word if he is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, then the person spoken of in Matt 13:20-21 is born again.
Once a person is born again, he/she is a child of God and God will never, ever forsake him/her. A born again believer cannot become unborn.
Your erroneous dogma has you tied in knots. You've got Scripture contradicting Scripture ... and for what??? ... because you're trying to align Scripture to your erroneous dogma???
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, get rid of the error ... don't hold to your error and toss Scripture out.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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please address the point raised concerning John 1:12:
John 1:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
The Lord Jesus Christ clearly states that He gave power [the right, the privilege] to become the sons of God(vs 12) to those who did not reject Him (vs 11).
If they are already born again, they already are the sons of God. There would be no need for the Lord Jesus Christ to give them what they already have and are.
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John 1:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name
The Lord Jesus Christ clearly states that He gave power [the right, the privilege] to become the sons of God(vs 12) to those who did not reject Him (vs 11).
If they are already born again, they already are the sons of God. There would be no need for the Lord Jesus Christ to give them what they already have and are.
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moot point. it is clear you are the one who "say anything, sometimes it seems without thinking".
You still claim faith = works even though Romans 4:5 makes clear that faith ≠ works.
You've got folks simultaneously justified and ungodly and/or reconciled and enemies with no consideration as to the contradiction that raises.
You've got yourself hoodwinked into believing God's Word tells us the "elect" do not have to "believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
You've got all the folks in the parable of the sower born again because they "hear" and, according to you, one can only "hear" if they're born again (your Post 2557) ... yet it is clear from the parable that those in Matt 13:19-22 are not believers even though they can "hear".
I could go on, but again, but like I said, moot point. You will never own up to your contradictory statements. You do not care that your dogma doesn't align with Scripture ... you just "say anything" in order to prop up your dogma (and then project your own behavior onto others who do not do what you claim).
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You still claim faith = works even though Romans 4:5 makes clear that faith ≠ works.
You've got folks simultaneously justified and ungodly and/or reconciled and enemies with no consideration as to the contradiction that raises.
You've got yourself hoodwinked into believing God's Word tells us the "elect" do not have to "believe it, accept itor do anything but continue being ungodly sinners".
You've got all the folks in the parable of the sower born again because they "hear" and, according to you, one can only "hear" if they're born again (your Post 2557) ... yet it is clear from the parable that those in Matt 13:19-22 are not believers even though they can "hear".
I could go on, but again, but like I said, moot point. You will never own up to your contradictory statements. You do not care that your dogma doesn't align with Scripture ... you just "say anything" in order to prop up your dogma (and then project your own behavior onto others who do not do what you claim).
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It's so much easier to believe what God's Word tells us faith is:
Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
According to Heb 11:1, faith is the foundation for those things we yet hope for. When God makes a promise and we lay hold of that promise through faith, we hope for that which God promises by patiently waiting for God to fulfill His promise.
You seem to believe that a person cannot have faith in something that is untrue. Well, take a look at Eve ... she believed the lie of satan.
Look at what is going on in our world today. Folks believe lies all the time. Unbelievers have faith ... they believe the lies of the devil, which results in calamity for them.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
According to Heb 11:1, faith is the foundation for those things we yet hope for. When God makes a promise and we lay hold of that promise through faith, we hope for that which God promises by patiently waiting for God to fulfill His promise.
You seem to believe that a person cannot have faith in something that is untrue. Well, take a look at Eve ... she believed the lie of satan.
Look at what is going on in our world today. Folks believe lies all the time. Unbelievers have faith ... they believe the lies of the devil, which results in calamity for them.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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like I said ... wholly calvinistic dogma.
iow, no you do not know what the gospel is according to Scripture
I have no problem with Scripture ... your problem is that you try to align Scripture to your dogma instead of aligning your dogma to Scripture.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
Like I said, brightfame52, you have no problem manipulating Scripture because you do not believe Scripture. You add a little here, remove a little there ... and the result is unscriptural ... merely the musings of vain imagining
The scribes and pharisees treated Scripture exactly as you do and the Lord Jesus Christ had some choice words for them.
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The phrase "doctrines of grace" describes the soteriological doctrines that are unique to Reformed theology, which is Calvinistic. These doctrines are summarized with the acronym TULIP.
iow, no you do not know what the gospel is according to Scripture
I have no problem with Scripture ... your problem is that you try to align Scripture to your dogma instead of aligning your dogma to Scripture.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where you are in error, let go of the error.
Like I said, brightfame52, you have no problem manipulating Scripture because you do not believe Scripture. You add a little here, remove a little there ... and the result is unscriptural ... merely the musings of vain imagining
The scribes and pharisees treated Scripture exactly as you do and the Lord Jesus Christ had some choice words for them.
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intentionally obtuse.Recipients
The letter was addressed primarily to Jewish converts who were familiar with the OT and who were being tempted to revert to Judaism or to Judaize the gospel (cf. Gal 2:14). Some have suggested that these professing Jewish Christians were thinking of merging with a Jewish sect, such as the one at Qumran near the Dead Sea. It has also been suggested that the recipients were from the "large number of priests who became obedient to the faith" (Acs 6:7).
nope ... you are the only one on this thread who has made that claim. The Author of Scripture wrote to the Hebrews.
When I turn to the epistle to the Hebrews, that is the title of the writing ... to the Hebrews. When I turn to Romans, Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, Thessalonians, the Author of Scripture was addressing the folks in those areas.
Why all of a sudden when the Author of Scripture addresses the Hebrews do you insist that is somehow "God saved the [fill in the blank] that He saved based upon their ethnicity"?
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... just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogmaUnder your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
Yet one is not born again until he/she believes the gospel.
You've got a person "born again" in order to be "born again".
So under your erroneous dogma, how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
...In your Post 2499, you highlighted one of the definitions of the word kosmos (#8) any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort.
Definition #8 relates to "the Gentiles as contrasted to the Jews (Rom. 11:12 etc)" and specifically indicates Rom. 11:12 as the verse to which this definition refers.
I responded in Post 2549 and clarified to you that definition #5 relates specifically to John 1:29, John 3:16, 1 John 2:2:
From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
5. the inhabitants of the world: θέατρον ἐγενήθημεν τῷ κόσμῳ καί ἀγγέλοις καί ἀνθρώποις, 1 Corinthians 4:9 (Winers Grammar, 127 (121)); particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race (first so in Sap. (e. g. Wisdom 10:1)): Matthew 13:38; Matthew 18:7; Mark 14:9; John 1:10, 29(John 1:36 L in brackets); John 3:16f; 6:33,51; 8:26; 12:47; 13:1; 14:31; 16:28; 17:6,21,23; Romans 3:6, 19; 1 Corinthians 1:27f (cf. Winer's Grammar, 189 (178)); 1 Corinthians 4:13; 5:10; 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:19; James 2:5 (cf. Winer's Grammar, as above); 1 John 2:2 ( cf. Winer's Grammar, 577 (536));
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The "world" of John 1:29 and John 3:16-17 and "the whole world" of 1 John 2:2 refers to "5. the inhabitants of the world; ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".
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You again manipulate Scripture in order to support your erroneous dogma ... you are reading the verses as if the Author of Scripture had placed vs 13 before vs 12. Please read Scripture as the Author of Scripture intended.
John 1:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
vs 11 – those who rejected were not granted power to become the sons of God
vs 12 – those who did not reject, but received Him and believed on His name to these gave He power to become the sons of God
vs 13 – those He gave power to become the sons of God were then born of God.
So according to you, a person is "regenerate" before "hearing the Gospel of their Salvation"??? Is that really what your dogma teaches?
If a person can only "hear" after "regeneration", then you've got a problem with the parable of the sower.
You claimed in your Post 2557 "the hearing comes from having been saved/born again".
Do you really believe that God is going to allow the wicked one to come and catcheth away that which was sown in the heart of His own child? (Matt 13:19)
Do you really believe that God is not going to protect his child during times of tribulation or persecution? (Matt 13:21)
Do you really believe that the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches is going to cause a regenerated (born again) believer to become unregenerated? (Matt 13:22)
Your erroneous dogma conflicts with Scripture. You have to manipulate the order of the words in which the Author of Scripture placed them. You've got contradiction between what is written in Matt 13 (the parable of the sower in that all "hear" yet not all are born again) and what is written in Eph 1:13 (first hear then believe then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise). To be sealed with that holy Spirit of promise is to be regenerated (born again).
Instead of manipulating Scripture to try to force it to align with your erroneous dogma, you are to align your dogma with Scripture. Where your dogma is in error, let go of the error!!!
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John 1:
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
vs 11 – those who rejected were not granted power to become the sons of God
vs 12 – those who did not reject, but received Him and believed on His name to these gave He power to become the sons of God
vs 13 – those He gave power to become the sons of God were then born of God.
So according to you, a person is "regenerate" before "hearing the Gospel of their Salvation"??? Is that really what your dogma teaches?
If a person can only "hear" after "regeneration", then you've got a problem with the parable of the sower.
You claimed in your Post 2557 "the hearing comes from having been saved/born again".
Do you really believe that God is going to allow the wicked one to come and catcheth away that which was sown in the heart of His own child? (Matt 13:19)
Do you really believe that God is not going to protect his child during times of tribulation or persecution? (Matt 13:21)
Do you really believe that the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches is going to cause a regenerated (born again) believer to become unregenerated? (Matt 13:22)
Your erroneous dogma conflicts with Scripture. You have to manipulate the order of the words in which the Author of Scripture placed them. You've got contradiction between what is written in Matt 13 (the parable of the sower in that all "hear" yet not all are born again) and what is written in Eph 1:13 (first hear then believe then sealed with that holy Spirit of promise). To be sealed with that holy Spirit of promise is to be regenerated (born again).
Instead of manipulating Scripture to try to force it to align with your erroneous dogma, you are to align your dogma with Scripture. Where your dogma is in error, let go of the error!!!
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From Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The "world" of John 1:29 and John 3:16-17 and "the whole world" of 1 John 2:2 refers to "5. the inhabitants of the world; ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".
Again, brightfame52, here is your claim:
After I pointed out the error of your dogma, you then modified your claim (red mine):
Please clarify your claim ...
Is your claim that sin is never laid to the charge of God's elect? ...
or is your claim that sin is never laid again to the charge of God's elect? ...
and at what point is sin never laid [again] to the charge of God's elect? ... is it before they are ever born? ... or is it after they are born again (regenerated)?
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5. the inhabitants of the world: ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race ... John 1:10, 29 ... John 3:16 ... 1 John 2:2
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
The "world" of John 1:29 and John 3:16-17 and "the whole world" of 1 John 2:2 refers to "5. the inhabitants of the world; ... particularly the inhabitants of the earth, men, the human race".
Again, brightfame52, here is your claim:
"Unbelief is a sin Christ died for, so its never laid to the charge of Gods elect". Post 2325.
After I pointed out the error of your dogma, you then modified your claim (red mine):
"So they wont ever be laid to the charge again to Gods elect" Post 2503
Please clarify your claim ...
Is your claim that sin is never laid to the charge of God's elect? ...
or is your claim that sin is never laid again to the charge of God's elect? ...
and at what point is sin never laid [again] to the charge of God's elect? ... is it before they are ever born? ... or is it after they are born again (regenerated)?
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... more of your projecting on to me your own behavior because you do not believe the Author of Scripture when He says there is one faith (Eph 4:5).In this thread, you first introduced your concept of "human faith" in Post 1715. And ever since then, you will not let go of your error. You cling to your error to the point where you now claim that I am the one who "bring up human faith, the bible never does", even though I have been telling you that you are in error since you first introduced your "human faith" fallacy.
I have maintained throughout the pages of this thread that there is only one faith (Eph 4:5) and that unbelievers believe error with the same "faith" the believer believes truth.
Ephesians 4:6 states that there is one God yet atheists believe there is no God ... and pagans believe there are many gods ...
does that change the fact that there is only one God? ... or does that change God into some sort of "human God"? No! of course not. But you change one faith into something never intended by the Author of Scripture in order to support your erroneous dogma.
You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, get rid of the error.
You, on the other hand, manipulate Scripture to fit your dogma, you end up making stuff up, and then have the audacity to claim I am the one who has done what you first did and continue to do even though I have consistently maintained there is only one faith.
Excuse me? Your "novelty of human faith" is all your doing because you refuse to believe Eph 4:5.
Your made up scenario does not affect me in the least.
And I understand why you have to claim more than one faith (Eph 4:5). Because you have to align Scripture to your dogma. But you are not to align Scripture to your dogma. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error, let go of the error. Your "human faith" fallacy is error. Let it go ...
Because you claim that the Lord Jesus Christ was raised from the dead "because of our justification" as if His resurrection from the dead hinges on mankind.
The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the dead even if no descendant of Adam believed. Death could never, ever hold Him ... because it was not possible that He should be holden of it.
You give mankind way too much credit when it comes to Who is the focus/subject of Scripture. The whole of Scripture is focused on the Lord Jesus Christ. Mankind pales in comparison. That God would even mention mankind is due to His magnificent grace, mercy, lovingkindness.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.The only thing you believe "morethan [ I ] do" is your erroneous dogma.
As far as believing Scripture??? ... I would love if you believe Scripture "morethan [ I ] do". We could have much more meaningful discussion if that were the case.
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the one who is "judging" is the one who claims that "its my privilege to tell ya that they really don’t believe it at all !" ... and that would be none other than brightfame52 (Post 2329) as if you know what a person believes in his/her heart.Again, since it appears you have again missed the point ... you cannot tell me or anyone else that they "really don’t believe [Scripture] at all !" just because I or anyone else do not hold to your manipulated version of Scripture.
nope ... that's all your doing with your "human faith" fallacy.
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nope ... again I reject your manipulation of Scripture which you must maintain in order to support your erroneous dogma.
... me pointing out that you "botched" your post does not = me rejecting God's justification.
And you responding to my comment about you botching your post with that accusation is ludicrous.
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... me pointing out that you "botched" your post does not = me rejecting God's justification.And you responding to my comment about you botching your post with that accusation is ludicrous.
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