Even So Faith, If It Hath Not Works, Is Dead, Being Alone.

[BroTan]

FreeGrace2 said:
This isn't the issue.

uh, "nothing more"??? It is the BEST thing EVER for the human race!! Why do you dis grace?

So, what is your point here?

Same question here.

You're losing me. What is your point?

The bolded words are unbiblical. If you had quoted the verse you cite, you would have learned that baptism isn't even mentioned in the verse.

Acts 4:12 - Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

We are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, according to Eph 2:8. Not works, not water baptism, nothing else.

OK, thank you. Great passages. Now, what is your point again?

When one quotes Scripture, they NEED to provide some explanation. iow, show me in either passage where one can lose salvation.

Plainly. Use the actual words that have convinced you.

Thanks.

Let's go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Let's go into (James 2: (v.14) What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? (v.15) If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of a daily food, (v.16) And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? If someone came to you hungry and needed clothes and all you told them was peace be unto you, and God bless you, be ye warmed and filled. All you did was give lip service, no works, you didn’t help the problem.

(v.17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. The bible has been telling you all alone that you must have fruits to prove your faith. (v.18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. True faith goes hand in hand with good works. (v.20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Did you know that? Has anybody ever read this verse to you? How can you, after reading this verse ever say again that we need not work? You can have all the faith you want, but if you have no works to go along with that faith, that faith is in vain, that faith is dead. (v.21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? We read where Abraham, the father of the faithful showed the Lord his faith by his works. (v.22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

No explanation at all. Most people have been taught WRONG about this passage.

In v.14 James makes a statement about what works associated with one's faith will SAVE them from. It's not hell. It's being charged with hypocrisy, as the next 2 verses plainly show.

V.15,16 is an example of a believer who only give lip service but shows no effort in helping others. There is no evidence that he wasn't saved. But he was a hypocrite. Those who think that believers CANNOT be hypocrites are beyond naive. Of course they can.

King David was a strong believer, but when out of fellowship with the Lord, he committed rape (Bathsheba) and murder (her husband).

Then, in v.18, James makes his point very clear by the scenario. The "someone" actually says the whole rest of the verse, or it doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, many translations put in the quote marks incorrectly, and that doesn't make any sense if you are paying attention to the words.

v.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

v.18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds."

Now, read both lines, paying attention to where the quote marks are placed. If the first line is what James meant, the verse does not make sense.

Only the second line makes sense when the end quote is placed corrected.

The point? A believer CANNOT demonstrate their faith IF IF IF they don't have works. So works demonstrate their faith.

The apostle John taught the same thing:

1 John 3:18 - Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth. Same exact point!

 

[Evmur]

The chapter does NOT say this.


One of THE most misunderstood, and unfortunately abused, chapters in the Bible.

The chapter begin with an admonition against the hypocrisy of discrimination beween people. Believers aren't to do that.

v.14 is NOT about "saving faith" at all, but rather, what having works saves the believer FROM. iow, if a believer doesn't have evidence of his/her faith, what aren't they going to be saved FROM?

The obvious answer is being labeled a hypocrite. Who is ok with being called that? Not even hypocrites themselves want to be called that.

The evidence for this is found in the next 2 verses:
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

This is an example of what "lip service" looks like. Or, saying one thing, but doing something else. Notice 1 John 3:18 - Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

It seems John had James 2:14-16 in mind when he wrote that verse.

This is exactly the point James was making in chapter 2. Don't be a hypocrite. Demonstrate your faith before others so they can SEE your faith in action.

v.18 is the summary verse for this passage:
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Unfortunately, most translations that add quote marks have the end quote right after the phrase "thou hast faith, and I have works". But if that were correct, the next words just don't make sense. The "someone" is acknowledging that the one to whom he is speaking has faith, and he himself has works.

Then he challenges the one to whom he is speaking to prove their faith without works, and he himself will demonstrate his faith by his works.

The word "dead" in James 2 is used as a figure of speech to denote lack of action, barrenness (no fruit) etc.

So, a faith without works is simply a saved person who is lazy, unfaithful, disobedient.

Consider this: IF one is saved by faith plus works, then the person "cooperated" with God, or by their own efforts earned their salvation.

At this, I expect a flood of posts from both Arminians and Calvinists who will argue for their strange and misunderstood view of this.

We have to DO

We have to do what God said to do, not do something else.

What must we DO in order to be saved

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

 

[montana123]

1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Charity is greater than faith and hope, and charity is love in action, works.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Faith works by love.

1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Love can only apply in a person's life if it is done in actions, works.

Love is greater than faith and faith works by love so that means if a person does not love by works of love then their faith is not applied in their life so that means their faith is dead.

That is why Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains but if he did not have charity then he is nothing.

James said that faith without works is dead which these are works of love to help people with their needs whatever that may be and to do them no harm.

Which he said a person is justified by works and not faith alone because a person has to have works of love to have faith active in their life because love is greater than faith and faith works by love and love can only be done in actions, works, for it to apply in a person's life.

It all boils down to we have to have works of love for our faith to apply in our life.

No works of love, then your faith means nothing.

Also the Bible says that charity does not rejoice in iniquity but rejoices in the truth to be led by the Spirit abstaining from sin so if we sin then that is not love which then we are not right with God.

Which there is no excuse for a Spirit led life will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh for they have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts and God will not allow them to be tempted above what they can handle and will give them an escape from the temptation so they can bear it.

So people who say they cannot abstain from sin because they are human are not right because by the Spirit we can abstain from sin.

Which the Bible says that some have a form of godliness, but deny the Spirit leading them, ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth that they have to abstain from sin led by the Spirit.

Which some people say they cannot abstain from sin and believe they are right with God which they are not if they hold on to sin.

The Bible says we can abstain from sin by the Spirit so there is no excuse but there are many hypocrites today.

But if we do sin we can repent of it and be led of the Spirit.

Which sinning and then repenting of it but holding on to the sin is not repenting of the sin which some people will repent of the sin but will not let it go but will keep repenting of it when they do it.

We have to mean it to not do the sin again when we repent of the sin for it to be forgiven.

Which the Bible says that if we sin willfully after having received the knowledge of sin then there is no more sacrifice for that sin which means if a person holds on to sin then the blood of Christ cannot take that sin away for God will not take away a sin that someone holds on to.

 

[Grandpa]

Of course that is true. And it doesn't mean that Jesus causes faith.


I don't agree with Calvinism. It is not biblical.

Nor is a works salvation theology biblical.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Faith Proves Itself By Works

And more simply put: If WHAT YOU CALL FAITH does not, of its intrinsic nature, produce WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, then it's NOT FAITH AT ALL.

Simple as that.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

1. Who was James written to?
Was it a gospel message to the lost on how they were to be saved from hell, like Jesus to Nicodemus, John 3?
It mentions "brethren" more than once, so I take that as speaking to those ALREADY in the family of God.

2. Out of one hundred clear verses in one book alone believe is the proper response to the Savior.
This is one so called proof text for the preacher's who don't agree with grace. Their salvation from Hell is by their own works. That's why Jesus will respond to them, "I never knew you."
Matthew 7

3. Does feeding and clothing those in need earn salvation from hell by balancing out sins with good works?

 

[Pray_without_ceasing]

God calleth those things which be not as though they were. This is why God counted it to him for righteousness when he believed in the LORD. But the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar. Because faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect.

Therefore, by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. But the children of disobedience will never understand this. Because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: that they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

And what does the Word of God (which is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword,) say about disobedience? That rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. And if rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry (which they are), then where shall sorcerers and idolaters end up? Simple. Sorcerers, and idolaters shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

The Words of the LORD are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge. But an evil man seeketh only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him.

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

 

[arthurfleminger]

1. Who was James written to?
Was it a gospel message to the lost on how they were to be saved from hell, like Jesus to Nicodemus, John 3?
It mentions "brethren" more than once, so I take that as speaking to those ALREADY in the family of God.

2. Out of one hundred clear verses in one book alone believe is the proper response to the Savior.
This is one so called proof text for the preacher's who don't agree with grace. Their salvation from Hell is by their own works. That's why Jesus will respond to them, "I never knew you."
Matthew 7

3. Does feeding and clothing those in need earn salvation from hell by balancing out sins with good works?

Health and Happiness, you ask, "Does feeding and clothing those in need earn salvation from hell....?"

Jesus gives us the answer to your question very clearly in Matthew's Gospel, 'The Judgement of Nations'.

Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

And the King will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
And the righteous shall go to life eternal!


Oh,and BTW, those that didn't show love of Jesus through love of neighbor were marched of to eternal punishment in hell. If you don't believe in Jesus' teaching here, then maybe you don't believe in the Bible?

 

[arthurfleminger]

Health and Happiness, you ask, "Does feeding and clothing those in need earn salvation from hell....?"

Jesus gives us the answer to your question very clearly in Matthew's Gospel, 'The Judgement of Nations'.

Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

And the King will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
And the righteous shall go to life eternal!


Oh,and BTW, those that didn't show love of Jesus through love of neighbor were marched of to eternal punishment in hell. If you don't believe in Jesus' teaching here, then maybe you don't believe in the Bible?

Just as the Bible says, "Faith without works is dead". If you don't believe that, then maybe you don't believe in the Bible?

 

[FreeGrace2]

We have to DO

We have to do what God said to do, not do something else.

What must we DO in order to be saved

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.

Correct!! But James 2:14-26 is not about doing anything to be saved. It's about how to demonstrate your faith. With works.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Of course that is true. And it doesn't mean that Jesus causes faith.


I don't agree with Calvinism. It is not biblical.

Nor is a works salvation theology biblical.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Believing is NOT a "work" in the sense of earning something, like a paycheck.

If it were, then what Paul wrote in Rom 4:4,5 couldn't be true and would not have been written. Or Eph 2:8,9 either.

Jesus was using the Jews own words back at them, kinda like a tongue-in-cheek response.

They wanted to know what God required to have eternal life, and their orientation was doing works. So Jesus used their own words to communicate what God requires; belief or faith.

If you believe that belief or faith is a work, then you better cut Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9 out of your Bible.

 

[Magenta]

Aren't they?

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 2:10

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Health and Happiness, you ask, "Does feeding and clothing those in need earn salvation from hell....?"

Jesus gives us the answer to your question very clearly in Matthew's Gospel, 'The Judgement of Nations'.

Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’

Then the righteous* will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?

And the King will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’
And the righteous shall go to life eternal!


Oh,and BTW, those that didn't show love of Jesus through love of neighbor were marched of to eternal punishment in hell. If you don't believe in Jesus' teaching here, then maybe you don't believe in the Bible?

Arthur,

Jesus Himself preached the gospel to Nicodemus, a teacher of the law, in John chapter 3. Since I gather that you also are a teacher of the law, you might want to go back and read what Jesus said to him.

Your choice of Matthew 25 is about the King's return.
He gathers the nations and divides them into two groups, sheep and goats.
The sheep were righteous and the goats were unrighteous. It was a separation of the saved and the unsaved, of the blessed and the cursed.

"Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?"

The spiritual application of this parable as we look at the teachings Jesus made on the subject is that they fed the hungry by bestowing the bread of life. They visited the prisoner and set the captive free by preaching the gospel of peace.
Those who were thirsty, what did they give?
The water of life freely. Remember the woman at the well?

Not only did the sheep receive the gospel and believe the gospel, but they bestowed the gospel, clothing the lost with the righteousness of Christ.
He is addressing them as a collective here and commending them for what they did with the gospel..... bestowing the bread of life to those who hungered.

The goats were contrasted with the sheep and condemned. Why?
They did not give the bread of lie.
They did not give the water of life.
They did not offer the clothes of righteousness.
Sick and imprisoned, they visited not with the gospel of peace and set the captives free.
They did not these things because they could not. They could not because they had not Lord represented as the Water of Life, Healer, Bread of Life and so forth....
They had not the gospel. They had not the Truth. They had not the gift of eternal life, so how could they offer it?

This is what you need to be clothed with Christ's righteousness.

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered."
Romans 4:5-7

My friend, Simply quit trusting in your own righteousness and choose to believe fully in the righteous One Jesus Christ. Even though we are ungodly, He justifies us by His own sacrifice. In exchange for our sins, He gives His own righteousness as a free gift without our works. The moment that you decide that, you will be completely forgiven.

 

[Grandpa]

FreeGrace2 said:
Of course that is true. And it doesn't mean that Jesus causes faith.


I don't agree with Calvinism. It is not biblical.

Nor is a works salvation theology biblical.

Believing is NOT a "work" in the sense of earning something, like a paycheck.

If it were, then what Paul wrote in Rom 4:4,5 couldn't be true and would not have been written. Or Eph 2:8,9 either.

Jesus was using the Jews own words back at them, kinda like a tongue-in-cheek response.

They wanted to know what God required to have eternal life, and their orientation was doing works. So Jesus used their own words to communicate what God requires; belief or faith.

If you believe that belief or faith is a work, then you better cut Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2:8,9 out of your Bible.

Its not a work for us.

Because its a gift from God.

Just like ALL the other requirements for Salvation.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Just as the Bible says, "Faith without works is dead". If you don't believe that, then maybe you don't believe in the Bible?

And "Dead FAITH" isn't "Faith" at all. simple as that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Its not a work for us.

Because its a gift from God.

Just like ALL the other requirements for Salvation.

Then support your claims here with actual Scripture. I don't believe your claims. I DO believe what the Bible SAYS.

I do what the Bereans did with Paul's preaching. So if you want to convince me of your claims, provide verses that plainly say what you say.

If you can't do that, then there is no reason to believe what you say.

First you quote John 6:28 to support believing is a work required by God. Then you say "it's not a work for us". Quite the flip-flop.

Prove that faith is a gift from God. And prove that "ALL the other requirements for salvation" are gifts from God.

If what you claim is biblically true, then there WILL be verses that actually say what you say.

We'll see about that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

And "Dead FAITH" isn't "Faith" at all. simple as that.

Of course it is. What you are saying is tantamount to saying "and dead bodies" aren't bodies at all".

Do you agree with that? I hope you don't, because that is absurd.

A dead faith from James 2 is a faith that can't be demonstrated because of a lack of works.

 

[Grandpa]

Then support your claims here with actual Scripture. I don't believe your claims. I DO believe what the Bible SAYS.

I do what the Bereans did with Paul's preaching. So if you want to convince me of your claims, provide verses that plainly say what you say.

If you can't do that, then there is no reason to believe what you say.

First you quote John 6:28 to support believing is a work required by God. Then you say "it's not a work for us". Quite the flip-flop.

Prove that faith is a gift from God. And prove that "ALL the other requirements for salvation" are gifts from God.

If what you claim is biblically true, then there WILL be verses that actually say what you say.

We'll see about that.

Oh, I see. You don't believe what scripture says. You believe what you WISH scripture said.

Well, good luck with that...

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,


Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.



John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.




It takes closed eyes and hands over ears to CONTINUE to say all requirements for Salvation AREN'T provided by God.


John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You need to read this verse over a few times. NOT the way you WISH it was written but the way the Lord ACTUALLY said it. Then read John 15:5 directly afterward. Can you work the works of God without the Lord Jesus Christ? Read John 15:5 again before you answer.


The whole chapter of Ephesians 1 would be a good one for you to meditate on as well as these others in this post. Ultimately, I can't PROVE the Truth to you. The Truth is revealed to you by the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
Then support your claims here with actual Scripture. I don't believe your claims. I DO believe what the Bible SAYS.

I do what the Bereans did with Paul's preaching. So if you want to convince me of your claims, provide verses that plainly say what you say.

If you can't do that, then there is no reason to believe what you say.

First you quote John 6:28 to support believing is a work required by God. Then you say "it's not a work for us". Quite the flip-flop.

Prove that faith is a gift from God. And prove that "ALL the other requirements for salvation" are gifts from God.

If what you claim is biblically true, then there WILL be verses that actually say what you say.

We'll see about that.

Oh, I see. You don't believe what scripture says.

Are you blind or are you eyes simply closed tightly? Go look at the top line in my quote above. And you come back with this nonsense?

You believe what you WISH scripture said.

You are a hoot. A blind one, though.

I asked:
Prove that faith is a gift from God. And prove that "ALL the other requirements for salvation" are gifts from God.

If what you claim is biblically true, then there WILL be verses that actually say what you say.

We'll see about that.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In the Greek, words that go together have the SAME gender. In v.8, both "saved" and "gift" are in the feminine, while the word "faith" is masculine. So you are wrong about faith being a gift. No Greek would agree with your belief.

John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

No mention of faith or gift at all. So you are wrong again. This verse and context is about the FACT that no believer can produce fruit apart from being IN fellowship with the Lord. That's what "abiding in Him" refers to.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

No mention of gift here either. In fact, a believer MUST be IN fellowship with the Lord and filled with the Spirit in order to produce this fruit.

Doesn't happen when the believer grieves (Eph 4:30) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Spirit. Are you following any of this?

Ezekiel 36:24-27
24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

This passage describes being born again. Nothing about faith being a gift.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Classic avoidance of the very next verse. Which explains WHO will come to Jesus.

v.45 It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

So, from v.44, who will come to Jesus? Those who have listened and learned from the Father.

Nothing about a gift, nothing about election either.

It takes closed eyes and hands over ears to CONTINUE to say all requirements for Salvation AREN'T provided by God.

How many do you think there are, anyway?

1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

How many requirements for salvation can you count in this verse?

Acts 16:31 - They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”

How many requirements for salvation can you count in this verse?

I could go on for over 2 dozen verses.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Do you understand "tongue-in-cheek" at all? Jesus was using their own words against them.

This is what they asked in the previous verse: Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

They wanted to know what God REQUIRED them to DO for eternal life.

You need to read this verse over a few times. NOT the way you WISH it was written but the way the Lord ACTUALLY said it. Then read John 15:5 directly afterward.

Sorry, but they are not related. John 6:28,29 is about how to be saved, and was given to unbelievers. John 15:5 is about how believers will produce fruit, and was given to believers.

Can you work the works of God without the Lord Jesus Christ?

I never said that. If you think that's what I said, you have proved that your reading skills are very poor. Go back to my post and read it carefully and you will see I NEVER said what you are claiming.

The whole chapter of Ephesians 1 would be a good one for you to meditate on as well as these others in this post. Ultimately, I can't PROVE the Truth to you. The Truth is revealed to you by the Lord Jesus Christ.

You don't have the truth yet. But I keep trying to help you.

Faith is NOT a gift. Salvation is the gift.