Once saved always saved?

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FreeGrace2

Banned
#321
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
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#321
emprezza said:
do not that I do not have to believe a word that Paul says to enter the kingdom of god.
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If you are referring to Creator God, then at least show some respect and capitalize the G, for heaven's sake.

And the jailer did get saved by believing what Paul said.

Your ignorance of basic biblical truth is stunning.

Note that salvation means that you are eligible for the kingdom of god.
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Wrong. Salvation means you are IN the kingdom of God. Where do you get your "material" from?

also, nicodemus already asked this question of Jesus and it was sufficiently answered in John3:3 —> “Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.””
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3‬ ‭ESV‬‬
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OK. Explain what it means to be "born again". Using Scripture.

or see matthew 17:20
“He said to them, “Because of your little faith. For truly, I say to you, if you have faith like a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move, and nothing will be impossible for you.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:20‬ ‭ESV‬‬

This means that if your faith is not strong enough to change your behavior, it is not strong enough to save your life.
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No it doesn't. Not at all. But it is clear that you wrongly believe that changing one's behavior is required for salvation.

And, of course, you don't have any verse that says that. What denomination or religion are you in?
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#322
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#322
Thewatchman said:
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
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All of those that God gave to Jesus to die for on the cross will go to eternal heaven, (John 6:39). "The kingdom of heaven" is one of the names that has reference to Christ's church, and accepts only those that does his will.
 
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emprezza

Banned
#324
Aug 22, 2022
24
2
3
#324
FreeGrace2 said:
If you are referring to Creator God, then at least show some respect and capitalize the G, for heaven's sake.

And the jailer did get saved by believing what Paul said.

Your ignorance of basic biblical truth is stunning.


Wrong. Salvation means you are IN the kingdom of God. Where do you get your "material" from?


OK. Explain what it means to be "born again". Using Scripture.


No it doesn't. Not at all. But it is clear that you wrongly believe that changing one's behavior is required for salvation.

And, of course, you don't have any verse that says that. What denomination or religion are you in?
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“What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14.ESV

“But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18-19‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.18-19.ESV
 
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ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#325
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#325
The_Watchers_2017 said:
so are you saying if a person does not forgive others, and the Father won't forgive their sins until they forgive others, He's still granting them Salvation?
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Eternal salvation was accomplished on the cross, only, for all of those that God gave to his Son, and they are secured of their eternal inheritance.
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#328
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
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#328
emprezza said:
“What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:14‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.14.ESV

“But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:18-19‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/jas.2.18-19.ESV
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I'll just say it again:

FreeGrace2 said:
If you are referring to Creator God, then at least show some respect and capitalize the G, for heaven's sake.

And the jailer did get saved by believing what Paul said.

Your ignorance of basic biblical truth is stunning.


I have no doubt that you don't understand James 2:14-26.
 
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FreeGrace2

Banned
#329
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
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#329
ForestGreenCook said:
All of those that God gave to Jesus to die for on the cross will go to eternal heaven, (John 6:39).
FreeGrace2 said:
But the verse doesn't say or teach that.
ForestGreenCook said:
What is your interpretation?
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First, there are many verses that say plainly that Christ died for all or everyone. So this cannot be about limited atonement.

Now, let's look at that verse:

John 6:39 - 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

See? It doesn't even address who He died for. It's about those God has given Him. And that would be those who will believe in Him.

And He was teaching eternal security, same as John 10:28.

Your turn.
 
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emprezza

Banned
#331
Aug 22, 2022
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#331
These "once saved always saved" nuts seemed to be forgetting our origin story. That is Genesis 1-3. We were created in the image and likeness of God. At creation, God deemed us very good. However, ONE act of sin caused us to be unceremoniously thrown out of the Garden of Eden and almost permanently ruptured our relationship with God.

You may miss the point of Genesis 1 if you don't try to get to the heart of the creation story. What was the purpose of Genesis 1:1? God created the heavens and earth so that he could establish his heavenly kingdom on physical earth. The kingdom of God would replicate God's influence, God's culture, God's character in a physical space with Adam and Eve being God's representative on Earth.

'And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have DOMINION over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” And God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit. You shall have them for food. ' Genesis 1:28-29 https://my.bible.com/bible/59/GEN.1.28-29

If man had maintained this original status quo, we would have enjoyed continued fellowship/visitation with God. He would have taught us his character and his heavenly culture.

However, the serpent deceived Eve and caused her to violate the will of God. That single sin was an act of treason. Man basically declared independence from God. The punishment for such an act is DEATH - permanent separation from fellowship with God. So today, when we put our faith in Jesus who paid the price of reconciliation, we better not continue to live like we take his ultimate sacrifice for granted. We better learn the character of God and be totally sanctified and totally aligned with God's purpose for us before the day of judgement.

'The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. But do not overlook this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. ' 2 Peter 3:8-9 https://my.bible.com/bible/59/2PE.3.8-9

'And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.' 2 Peter 3:15,18 https://my.bible.com/bible/59/2PE.3.15,18
 
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emprezza

Banned
#332
Aug 22, 2022
24
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#332
FreeGrace2 said:
I'll just say it again:

FreeGrace2 said:
If you are referring to Creator God, then at least show some respect and capitalize the G, for heaven's sake.

And the jailer did get saved by believing what Paul said.

Your ignorance of basic biblical truth is stunning.


I have no doubt that you don't understand James 2:14-26.
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'You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.' James 2:24-26 https://my.bible.com/bible/59/JAS.2.24-26

Please don't try to mislead people about this silly faith alone nonsense. James is a staunch advocate for salvation through faith and works. You will only ever hear the faith alone argument from Paul, but not from anyone who learned from Jesus while he was here on earth, not from any of Jesus' disciples.
 
Snacks

Snacks

Well-known member
#333
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
#333
emprezza said:
You cannot be a follower of Saul Tarsus and Jesus Christ at the same time.
Paul and Jesus preached diametrically opposed messages. Paul’s letters are in the Bible to record how crafty the devil can be. Even John calls him the antichrist and Peter noted how difficult his message is to understand.
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Without question the dumbest post in an extraordinarily long line of Christian Chat dumb posts. Congratulations. 👏
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#334
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,159
113
#334
emprezza said:
We better learn the character of God and be totally sanctified and totally aligned with God's purpose for us before the day of judgement.
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And we come to Christ by faith. That is faith in his works not ours. It's his righteousness that is imputed to us.. Wonderfully good news indeed. Of course faith is never alone, but the works God has for us are a working of the spirit through. We bear good fruit not dead works.

As the hymn christ alone reminds us:

'No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand'

That's why I love this hymn.

In Christ alone my hope is found
He is my light, my strength, my song
This cornerstone, this solid ground
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
My comforter, my all in all
Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
Till on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious day
Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me
For I am His and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

No guilt in life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life's first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand
 
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emprezza

Banned
#335
Aug 22, 2022
24
2
3
#335
phil36 said:
And we come to Christ by faith. That is faith in his works not ours. It's his righteousness that is imputed to us.. Wonderfully good news indeed. Of course faith is never alone, but the works God has for us are a working of the spirit through. We bear good fruit not dead works.

As the hymn christ alone reminds us:

'No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand'

That's why I love this hymn.

In Christ alone my hope is found
He is my light, my strength, my song
This cornerstone, this solid ground
Firm through the fiercest drought and storm
What heights of love, what depths of peace
When fears are stilled, when strivings cease
My comforter, my all in all
Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone who took on flesh
Fullness of God in helpless babe
This gift of love and righteousness
Scorned by the ones He came to save
Till on that cross as Jesus died
The wrath of God was satisfied
For every sin on Him was laid
Here in the death of Christ I live

There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain
Then bursting forth in glorious day
Up from the grave He rose again
And as He stands in victory
Sin's curse has lost its grip on me
For I am His and He is mine
Bought with the precious blood of Christ

No guilt in life, no fear in death
This is the power of Christ in me
From life's first cry to final breath
Jesus commands my destiny
No power of hell, no scheme of man
Can ever pluck me from His hand
Till He returns or calls me home
Here in the power of Christ I'll stand
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Do you really believe that Jesus would lay his life down for you just so you can continue to behave like the seed of the serpent?
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#337
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,159
113
#337
emprezza said:
Do you really believe that Jesus would lay his life down for you just so you can continue to behave like the seed of the serpent?
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Nope. That would be 'no Lordship' doctrine. I dont believe that.
 
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BroTan

Active member
#338
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#338
FreeGrace2 said:
Grace was present when God created the universe.

Our differences are not about grace. It's about salvation and eternal security, which is a grace issue.

Grace is the reason for eternal security. No one can earn it (nor lose it) and no one deserves it. That is our difference

Unbelievable statement. Grace is FAR MORE than "a free gift". What a ridiculous comment!

No one goes to heaven apart from God's unlimited grace.
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What heaven are you talking about? Also what eternal security, because most people who say they are Christians are still sinning willfully. Now Paul said in Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians 4:7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.

Now lets understand and reason together, Paul just gave us a run down on condition of sins. People who are behaving in such manner will not inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God, even those who are unclean. Being unclean does not mean a person doesn’t wash up, we are not talking about soap and water. We are talking about defiling the body, with unholiness or unGodliness.
 
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BroTan

Active member
#339
Sep 16, 2021
898
161
43
#339
FreeGrace2 said:
FreeGrace2 said:
Jesus made that clear. When a person believes, they HAVE eternal life (John 5:24). When He gives eternal life, the recipient shall never perish (John 10:28). Eternal security is very clear.

You've been given very clear verses that refute your claim. Eternal life is received the MOMENT one believes in Christ for salvation.

Your view demonstrates that you don't believe what Jesus said in John 5:24. Why don't you?


By definition, a prize is earned. Salvation is a grace GIFT, which, by definition, CANNOT be earned.


No, we give an account of our lives. On that basis, we will either receive reward or not.


I feel sorry for your total confusion about what the Bible says. :cry:
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Don't feel sorry for me I'm totally not confuse, but just like Jesus says in Luke 23: 28 But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. 29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. 30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us. 31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry? 32 And there were also two other, malefactors, led with him to be put to death.
 
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