Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

reneweddaybyday – Post 2256

When you combine your statement with my statement, it appears that I submitted both statements (which I didn't).​

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I replied to your Post #2216 where you did the same thing.​

​

However, I am no longer going to respond to posts you submit like that. I will point out that you have botched your response, but I'm not going to take the time to figure out who said what.​

​

You need to take the time to learn how to submit posts so that it is clear as to who said what.​

brightfame52 – Post 2288

Hogwash​

reneweddaybyday – Post 2332

No, it is not "hogwash". It is rude on your part to combine your statements with my statements and submit a post where it appears I made both statements.​

​

When you submit posts in which you do that, you just reveal your pride and arrogance ... maybe because you consider yourself "elect" and I am merely a "whoseover".​

Intentionally obtuse.
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Just know this, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost, their minds are blinded 2 Cor 4:3-4. The word hid is in the perfect tense, they are in a permanent state of having the gospel hid from them, so they cannot believe the Gospel.

The only ones who hear the Gospel and believe are the saved. The preaching of the cross is to the saved, not the lost, the power of God 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Its the power of God Paul says, to us which are saved !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
... There having been born of God is the reason for their action in Vs 12 of receiving and believing.

just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma

Since [according to you] they're already "having been born of God" (vs 13), they are already "sons of God" and there is no reason for them to "become the sons of God" (vs 12) ... no reason for the Lord Jesus Christ to have to give them anything.

So, again, under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Your erroneous dogma again fails under the full scrutiny of the light of Scripture.
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[brightfame52]

renewed

You claim "limited atonement" is a "key truth"

Most def, no true Gospel without it

you must manipulate Scripture in order to get Scripture to align with your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God for the same !"

You must do that to deny it [limited atonement] and you are accountable to God for that. See you at the Judgment !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

another blasphemous statement from the keyboard of brightfame52.

Provide the post submitted by me wherein I stated what you claim I said. You cannot.

You are the only one who has made that statement.

Whats blasphemous

got it. You have nothing but the statement from your own keyboard. So we know you are the only one who made the statement.

We also know that you will never own up to your own blasphemous lies, that you will continue to lie and then rationalize your behavior when your lie is challenged ... brightfame52 aka accuser of the brethren.

Faith is not the proof that the Lord Jesus Christ died for the world, the whole world, all descendants of Adam.

The resurrection is the proof.

Again if Christ died for an individual

The Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world.

That is a lie from the pit.

What that Christ died for sin ? Unbelief ?

You stated "Unbelief is a sin that Christ died for, so its never laid to the charge of Gods elect"

Your lie is that sin is "never laid to the charge of Gods elect".

If sin is "never laid to the charge of Gods elect", then your so-called "elect" have no need for the Savior. There is nothing from which your so-called "elect" must be redeemed.

Faith is not the proof

I never said that

If Christ died for someone, their unbelief is pardoned, and they are given the gift of Faith as proof.

No one is "elect" until he/she is a member in particular of the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

The elect have been chosen and placed in Christ by the Father before the foundation of the world

just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love

We know that before the foundation of the world, the plan of redemption was put in place because God, in His omniscience, knew that Adam and Eve would sin.

We also know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. We know that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Elect of God.

From John 3:16, we learn that WHOSEOVER believeth in Him has everlasting life.

God chose faith IN the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is the Elect of God ... that is what is chosen before the foundation of the world. WHOSOEVER believeth.

Under your rendering, God "chose" Johnny but not Mary, as if eenie-meenie-miney-mo, Johnny yes, Mary no. That is not God's plan.

Those who reject? God provided to them all that is needed to come to faith, but because they reject the Elect, God has chosen to not choose those who reject.

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began

Again you take your focus off of the Elect of God, the Lord Jesus Christ.

God's purpose and God's grace is wholly by, in, through the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again all who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ have all God's purpose and grace because God's purpose and grace is in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Quit thinking that you're the end all/be all because you believe (if you do believe). God's purpose and grace is not about you. God's purpose and grace is entirely encapsulated in the Lord Jesus Christ, the Elect of God.
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[brightfame52]

renewed

Intentionally obtuse.

It is the promise that is given.

Just more of your manipulation of Scripture in order to align Scripture to your dogma ... and that is something for which you "will be accountable to God" !

Believing is given Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

The word given is an aorist passive indicative, it has been given and the given means:

charizomai which is the middle voice of charis where we get the word grace and it means

to give graciously, give freely, bestow

To believe on Christ is a gift of Gods Grace.

So when we see verses that say Rom 3:22

22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

It was given to them to believe by Grace !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

All your attempts to eliminate the faith issue fail because Scripture tells us in numerous places:

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith

the Justified one is given Faith to believe and receive it

just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
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[reneweddaybyday]

And please do not ignore the fact that Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Clearly faith is not works. And for you to continue to insist that faith = works is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

You usurp faith from its true meaning and make it a condition found in the natural man, when you do that, it defaults to works, law keeping.

I have not "usurp[ed] faith from its true meaning".

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance [Greek hypostasis = standing under, foundation] of things hoped for ...

According to Hebrews 11, faith is the foundation upon which we hope. Even unbelievers hope for things (even though they may or may not hope for things which God provides). The fact is, unbelievers hope. Since faith is the foundation upon which we hope, if the unbeliever did not have faith, he/she could not hope.

And you continuing to insist that faith = works is simply you rejecting the truth of God's Word that faith ≠ works.

I and other Christians see Faith as not found in the natural man at all, but its given by God when He gives us new life by the Spirit

... just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???
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[reneweddaybyday]

You have again botched your reply in your Posts #2420, #2421 and #2423.

I am not going to respond to posts you submit where you include your statement in a quote in which it appears I made the statement. I will point out that you have botched your response, but I'm not going to take the time to figure out who said what.

Quit acting like such a buffoon ... Learn how to properly submit posts in the Christian Chat forum. There's a "User2User Tech Support" forum where you can chat with other users who are much more adept at submitting posts than you are. Go there and find out what you need to do in order to submit a post without mangling the discussion.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Listen, what you are ignorant of is the fact that the grave could not, under any circumstances, hold the Lord Jesus Christ:

Acts 2:

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

...

27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

And your point ?

The Lord Jesus Christ would have risen from the grave even if no one believed.

The Lord Jesus Christ would still have been resurrected from the grave even if all descendants of Adam rejected the Lord Jesus Christ and ended up cast into the lake of fire.

The grave could not, under any circumstances, hold Him it was not possible that he should be holden of it (Acts 2:24).
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[brightfame52]

renewed

just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Yes, one must be born again spiritually to believe. Believing on Christ is Spiritual. And one is only born again once.

And it's really interesting that you continue to insist faith is fruit of the Spirit, yet will not answer the questions I have asked you several times now ...

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

love is the fruit of the Spirit as well. Are you saying that natural man cannot love because love is the fruit of the Spirit?

Yes Love is a fruit of the Spirit, and no the natural man cannot love Spiritually. Now natural men can love naturally

But Love which is the fruit of the Spirit comes from regeneration of the Spirit Rom 5:5

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Or is it only faith that you claim is withheld from mankind ... or given only to the "elect" so that the "elect" is born again and has fruit of the Spirit so he/she can believe the gospel by which he/she is born again ?

Its a foolish unlearned question, the natural man[without the Spirit] cannot bear Spiritual fruit that the Holy Spirit produces in a born again person

 

[reneweddaybyday]

James 4:12 ... who art thou that judgest another?

God gave me the right to judge what a person says about salvation

You didn't judge what a person says about salvation. You flat out judged all believers who do not hold to the erroneous dogma of limited atonement when you said:

Many calling themselves believers or christians do make a claim to believe this Truth of " Justification freely by the Grace of God" , but its my privilege to tell ya that they really dont believe it at all !

Who are you to judge the heart of anyone? Only God knows the heart of the believer/unbeliever and for you to claim that "its [your] privilege to tell" anyone anything about the heart of another is nothing but a lie from the pit ... and I will call you out on your nonsense.

Besides, dont be hypocritical, you been judging everything I post.

I bring everything you submit to the Word of God and let the Word of God shed its light on your claims/assertions.

Rather than address the Scriptures, you submit personal attacks ... which is nothing but a poor debate tactic because you are unable to refute the central point.

Grow up and debate in a more meaningful manner ... get rid of the rhetoric ... address the issue ... quit being an accuser of the brethren. You do know who is the accuser of the brethren, yes?

And please do not ignore the fact that Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Clearly faith is not works. And for you to continue to insist that faith = works is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).

Already dealt with, you have a spurious understanding of Faith and believing, you have dilapidated and cheapened them to human actions of the flesh.

nope ... that's all your doing with your "human faith" fallacy, even though you have been shown in Scripture that there is only one faith. You obliviously continue on with your fallacy in order to support your erroneous dogma.

You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where there is error, you are to let go of the error.

when you read Rom 5:9, have you already forgotten what you read in Rom 5:1? ... and the verses in Rom 4 which tell us faith ≠ works???

God expects us to keep in mind what we have read in Scripture so we do not make the same mistake you have made in wholly removing justification by faith as shown in Rom 4 – Rom 5:1.

I have explained Rom 5:1 in light of Rom 5:9 and again, Faith in Vs 1 receives as a testimony the Truth of Vs 9 of having been Justified by Christs blood.

you are to understand Romans 5:9 in light of what you have read in Romans 5:1.

When we read Scripture, we are to keep in mind what we have read in the previous verses/chapters/books in order to better comprehend verses which follow.

When we read Romans 5:9, we are to keep in mind what we read in Romans 5:1.

When we read Romans 5:1, we are to keep in mind what we read in Romans 4.

Faith in Vs 1 receives as a testimony the Truth of Vs 9

wrong ... Faith in Vs 1 receives as a testimony the Truth of Romans 4.
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[brightfame52]

renewed

since it is clear the Lord Jesus Christ is revealed in Scripture, there is no need to argue that it is pointless to study God's Word.

The problem is not with Scripture. The problem is that folks don't open the Book and read it.

The problem is that the Bible, the Word of God, is "setting around collecting dust".

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee ...

Yeah I explained that to you. One needs to have God open up their understanding spiritually to understand the scripture.

got it. I never said it, but you're gonna say I said it ... just more of your revisionist manipulation. I'm not surprised though, since you do the same with Scripture.

Again its implied, thats good enough. You believe the scripture , the bible is for the natural man to pick up and read it understand it and get saved .

The scriptures are things of God and unfortunately this is what Paul wrote 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

That includes the Gospel revealed in the scripture 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Yep but Gods word is foolishness' to the natural man

just because I do not agree with your erroneous dogma ... that does not mean I do not understand Scripture.

I have read your views, totally unscriptural ! Against God even !

 

[reneweddaybyday]

It is written

Romans 4:

20 He [Abraham] staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

21 And being fully persuaded that, what he [God] had promised, he [God] was able also to perform.

22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

Says nothing about Faith being a requirement in order for God to Justify a person.

Romans 4:24-5:1 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith,

When you reject the truth of Scripture it is because you suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

You hold to your erroneous dogma and hold it above Scripture, the Word of God.

A Person is Justified by the blood of Christ and the Grace of God Rom 5:9; 3:24

Romans 3:

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You add works to justification.

nope ... Scripture makes clear that faith ≠ works.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Clearly faith is not works. And for you to continue to insist that faith = works is nothing but you suppressing the truth in unrighteousness (Rom 1:18).


The Bible is the Word of God, literally "God-breathed" (2 Timothy 3:16), and we are commanded to read, study, and understand it through the use of good Bible study methods and always with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to guide us (1 Corinthians 2:14). Our study is greatly enhanced by maintaining diligence in the use of context because it is quite easy to come to wrong conclusions by taking phrases and verses out of context. It is not difficult to point out places that seemingly contradict other portions of Scripture, but if we carefully look at their context and use the entirety of Scripture as a reference, we can understand the meaning of a passage. “Context is king” means that the context often drives the meaning of a phrase. To ignore context is to put ourselves at a tremendous disadvantage.
https://www.gotquestions.org/context-Bible.html


Exegesis and eisegesis are two conflicting approaches in Bible study. Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

The opposite approach to Scripture is eisegesis, which is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.
https://www.gotquestions.org/exegesis-eisegesis.html
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[reneweddaybyday]

Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

This scripture has always been handled deceitfully by the adversaries of the Gospel, they force it to say and mean all men without exception have a chance at being Justified, and that Christ died for all men without exception, yet that is not true; This scripture applies to the Church, the Body of Christ

Since, according to you, the all men of Romans 5:18 applies only to "the Church, the Body of Christ", then only "the Church, the Body of Christ" was/is under judgment to condemnation.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Do you not see how erroneous your dogma is, brightfame52???
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[reneweddaybyday]

brightfame52 ... you generally do not emphasize (bold) the key points in Scripture which clarify certain details God wants us to understand.

Example:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God

In vs 25, you bolded "propitiation" but you did not bold "through faith in His blood".

You really need to come to grips with your distorted understanding of faith.

You continue to insist that faith = works even though Rom 4 tells us faith ≠ equal works.

God is Just in Justifying the Ungodly [while actually being ungodly]

Once a person is justified, he/she is no longer "ungodly". This fact reveals the contradictory claims of your erroneous dogma.

You claim that the "elect" are justified before their physical birth ... and, of course, you consider yourself to be one of the "elect" because, for some reason, for you to be a whosoever (John 3:16), that is something you never were / cannot be

Since, according to you, before you were born you were justified, then according to Scripture you were not "ungodly" from birth. That is nothing but a lie from the pit. There is only One Who was not "ungodly" from birth ... and that is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. You are claiming a status that belongs only to Him.

Since, according to Scripture, God justifies the ungodly (Rom 4:5), and according to your erroneous dogma, you were justified before you were born, you never were "ungodly". Therefore, none of the verses in Scripture relating to redemption, justification, propitiation, etc., etc. apply to you.

Newsflash for you, brightfame52 ... from birth you are/were ungodly and until you are born again, you will remain ungodly. Once a person is born again, he/she is sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph 1:13) ... i.e. regenerated, born again.


Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise


after you heard, you believed

after you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated, born again) ... according to Scripture, no longer ungodly.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

nor do we properly understand Rom 4:5 and the blessed Truth that God justifies the Ungodly

Until you acknowledge that Rom 4:5 clearly states that faith ≠ works, you will not "properly understand" it.

Paul goes on to say that God is Just and the Justifier of them which are now believing in Jesus, that's because by new birth they have been given faith to believe

those who are "now believing in Jesus" ... what do they believe concerning Jesus ???

Some folks "believe" Jesus was a prophet ... a "good teacher" ... and while Jesus was a Prophet and a good teacher, that does not mean a person is born again because he/she believes that.

Some folks "believe" Jesus was a good man because He helped the needy, healed the sick, fed the multitudes ... and while it is true Jesus did those things, believing He did those things does not mean a person is born again.

by new birth they have been given faith to believe

... it appears you are again(still) suggesting that a person must be born again in order to believe Scripture by which a person is born again.


Romans 10:

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
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[reneweddaybyday]

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Romans 3:19-20 plus James 2:10
Romans 3:19-20 plus James 2:1
very nice, Magenta ... love the Scripture ... love the panel ...

hope/pray all is well with you!!!
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[brightfame52]

renewed

reneweddaybyday said:
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick [Greek zaō = life], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
so whats your point ?

I believe Heb 4:12 is speaking of Jesus Christ, the Logos of God, since its said of Him that He is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart, The bible doesnt do that, also in Vs 13 its called Him/His

12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

 

[brightfame52]

I believe that. I am not bound by your erroneous dogma as you are. You must believe that faith = works to support your erroneous dogma.

Let go of your error.

Faith ≠ works ... just as is stated in Scripture.





you say you "already know that" yet you claim faith = law keeping.
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Yes, the way you present Faith its law keeping, because your view is not biblical !

 

[brightfame52]

renewed

There is only one faith (Eph 4:5)

Thats not talking about the faith of the natural man.

There is only One "Elect out of mankind" and that is the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

False, those Chosen in Him are also elect, Peter addresses them 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

reneweddaybyday said:
Ephesians 1:13 In whom [the Lord Jesus Christ] ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise
This refers to the regenerated
... just more of your "born again in order to believe that through which a person is born again" dogma ... under your erroneous dogma how many times must a person be born again before they are really, truly, really, really, really, scout's honor born again???

Yes those in Eph 1:13 who heard the word of Truth, had been born again in order to hear, the hearing is spiritual hearing.

The verse specifically states that the sealing of the Holy Spirit of promise (which is to be born again) occurred after hearing and after believing ... not before as your erroneous dogma insists.

Sorry, the Spirit sealing, and the Spirit quickening are not the same, in quickening the Spirit gives birth, Spiritual life, which life comes the ability to hear, in sealing, thats sealing in the truth heard, the Gospel, it seals in us the testimony of the Gospel heard and its an attesting ownership.

So in actuality the sealing by the Spirit proves He was already in them when they heard, and He confirmed what they heard into their minds and hearts.

Yep, does one have faith in the Jesus Christ revealed in the scripture who died to save exclusively a Chosen People
the Lord Jesus Christ died for all descendants of Adam ... the world ... the whole world.

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Under your erroneous dogma you have to manipulate the plain words of Scripture to align with your error. That is improper interpretation of Scripture. You are to align your dogma to Scripture and where your dogma is in error you are to let go of the error.
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Which all those scriptures only apply to Gods Elect from amongst the world, jew and gentile