How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christian?

[SomeDisciple]

Define "spaghetti noodle."

Personally, I prefer angel hair- and if you can get it, the noodles made from vegetables; not a lot of stores carry those ones though.
As far as the analogy goes, a person with a conviction that is weak and soft, and easily broken will probably not challenge your ideas in a meaningful way. And at least if a stubborn person can learn the truth, they might stubbornly hold to the truth.
I haven't seen self-proclaimed popes on CC, but I think there are a lot of people that take strong positions because they don't want to be moved, or broken too easily.

I definitely agree that diversity of opinion (with respect to what Jesus taught) is bad; but I'm pretty sure it's not going to go away today either. And it's better than uniformity founded upon lies. To the op question "how do we presume to be christian": I suppose if you believe on Jesus and walk in the truth you know and earnestly seek the truth you don't, then that's a good start. People with a genuine hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled; they will eventually abandon false teachings for the water from the pure well. The people that enjoy licking up mud puddles, maybe not so much.

 

[oyster67]

You cannot make Jesus your Lord until you make him your Savior.

He will not be your Saviour unless you make Him your Lord.

 

[oyster67]

Personally, I prefer angel hair-

I hate angel hair. Whenever I eat it, I cough up angel balls.

 

[John146]

He will not be your Saviour unless you make Him your Lord.

That's not scriptural. That's lordship salvation. Once Jesus is my Savior, then I strive to make him Lord of my life through discipleship, prayer, and following his word.

 

[oyster67]

That's not scriptural.

Is.

Luke 9:23
“And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.”

 

[Webers.Home]

.
Re: How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christian?

Well; if the transgenders can presume themselves to be whatever sex they
want then I guess it's okay for folks to presume themselves Christians; or
Hndus, or whatever.

* Personally I like to think of myself as a cracker (old fashioned racial tag for
white folk)
_

 

[Dino246]

Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Yet all of us on this board claim to be followers of the Truth through Scripture, the Bible both Old and New Testament. Yet there are so many different opinions as to Jesus' Truth on this message board. With so many different opinions about God's Truth, many just have to be wrong and have no truth in them.

On this board every major Christian topic has it's differing opinions. And the opinions are stubborn, it's as if many of us have declared ourselves our own 'little popes or Henry VIII, declaring ourselves and our own personal opinions as 'Jesus' Truth'. Many take snippets from Scripture, out of context, to prove their points. When you do this, you change the meaning of Scripture, mislead others, and you don't profess God's Word and Truth, you profess your word and truth.

No agreement at all on any major Christian issue whether it be Once Saved Always Saved, Merits of Water Baptism, the Rapture, Saved by Faith Alone, Obeying the 10 Commandments.....etc/etc/adnauseum..........

Back to my original question, the title of this thread, "How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christion?" if we all have different truths?
With many presumed differing truths, many of us don't profess Jesus' Truths. And that's a problem.

I have a simple question for you in response:

If you are wrong on one point of doctrine, are you therefore wrong on every point? You have presented a false dichotomy, and gotten yourself caught in it. Perhaps you should consider what the Scripture lays out for qualifications; being correct on every point of doctrine is not among them.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Yet all of us on this board claim to be followers of the Truth through Scripture, the Bible both Old and New Testament. Yet there are so many different opinions as to Jesus' Truth on this message board. With so many different opinions about God's Truth, many just have to be wrong and have no truth in them.

On this board every major Christian topic has it's differing opinions. And the opinions are stubborn, it's as if many of us have declared ourselves our own 'little popes or Henry VIII, declaring ourselves and our own personal opinions as 'Jesus' Truth'. Many take snippets from Scripture, out of context, to prove their points. When you do this, you change the meaning of Scripture, mislead others, and you don't profess God's Word and Truth, you profess your word and truth.

No agreement at all on any major Christian issue whether it be Once Saved Always Saved, Merits of Water Baptism, the Rapture, Saved by Faith Alone, Obeying the 10 Commandments.....etc/etc/adnauseum..........

Back to my original question, the title of this thread, "How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christion?" if we all have different truths?
With many presumed differing truths, many of us don't profess Jesus' Truths. And that's a problem.

That presumption of salvation is considered a mortal sin in the religion of Roman Catholicism that I was raised in.
Who's to say if that is wrong when the church "Universal" with trillions of dollars and so many followers as well as someone they claim is God's Vicar on earth, who happens to be worshipped as the "Holy Father?".
A much greater authorty is that of God's Word.

In 1 John the beloved apostle wrote under inspiration 5:11-13...

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God."

Because God Himself said in John 3:18,

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

Jesus made the issues of salvation very clear to this Jewish teacher who should have known better than to think that keeping the law could bring salvation. People say the same thing these days when they are told to "repent of their sins." Then they turn around and say that's not works. Of course that's works. It's a false gospel too. Jesus said you're condemned already. They are trusting/believing in the wrong person. They need to trust in Christ. Then the promise of the record is written into them. Then they are given and have eternal life. There's no waiting for a judgement that will determine if you are bad or good enough, or turned from sins hard enough. Eternal life is a free gift. It is received when the man, woman, or child decides to place their trust in Him, calling upon the Lord for the same.

 

[Dirtman]

All that is necessary to become a Christian is to yield oneself to the Lordship of Jesus. No one needs to agree to anyone else's 500+ thesis on how to clip toenails.

I guess that depends a little bit on who "Jesus" is. There are many who follow another Jesus.

 

[Dirtman]

I have a simple question for you in response:

If you are wrong on one point of doctrine, are you therefore wrong on every point? You have presented a false dichotomy, and gotten yourself caught in it. Perhaps you should consider what the Scripture lays out for qualifications; being correct on every point of doctrine is not among them.

What I invite everyone to do is read the scripture, simply with out the bias that we have all been taught. Then ask yourself if your theology explains away the passage or accepts the passage as its written in context?

 

[Blik]

It is all up to the Lord, what we presume about any of it does not change the truth. God is truth, man isn't.

1 Cor. 4:4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me.

 

[Dino246]

What I invite everyone to do is read the scripture, simply with out the bias that we have all been taught. Then ask yourself if your theology explains away the passage or accepts the passage as its written in context?

Agreed. Do you have a particular verse or passage in mind?

 

[Dirtman]

Agreed. Do you have a particular verse or passage in mind?

Probably start with romans then the gospels then acts the the first 5 books of the OT, then the pastoral epistles then probably the next 9 books of the OT then probably the letters to the churches then probably Job then the minor prophets and then the major prophets and then Revelation. At any rate the idea is eventually you have read the entire bible.

 

[Webers.Home]

.
• 1Cor 4:4 . . My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent.

Man was created with as near a divine conscience as a creature can be
given.

• Gen 1:27 . . God created man in his own image, in the image of God created
he him

But then came the forbidden fruit incident by which man's near-divine
conscience underwent something that caused his conscience to become
humanistic.

• Gen 3:22 . . The Lord God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

Man was able to discern between good and evil before his fall, but that was
by means of a conscience influenced by its maker. The forbidden fruit
incident altered Man's conscience to become his own influence, i.e. Man
became defensive, and he rationalizes a lot too. (Rom 2:14-15)

• 1 John 1:8 . . If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves

I think Paul was well aware of just how tricky Man's conscience can be so he
was reluctant to insist upon his innocence: a little sophistry here and a little
there, and even monsters like Communist China's Xi Jinping and North
Korea's Kim Jong-Un can be persuaded in their own minds to believe themselves
okay guys.
_

 

[Runningman]

How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christian?

There’s a subtle difference between being Christian and Christianized. Many people grow up in cultural Christianity where maybe their friends, family, and neighbors do Christian things, maybe even go to church sometimes, but they aren’t exactly Christians; they’re just Christianized.

An actual Christian is someone who professes to intentionally follow the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth due to their faith in Him as their Lord and Savior. To me it’s really that simple.

 

[Dino246]

Probably start with romans then the gospels then acts the the first 5 books of the OT, then the pastoral epistles then probably the next 9 books of the OT then probably the letters to the churches then probably Job then the minor prophets and then the major prophets and then Revelation. At any rate the idea is eventually you have read the entire bible.

Of course... but do you think that a person must read the entire Bible before believing he or she is a Christian?

 

[Dirtman]

Of course... but do you think that a person must read the entire Bible before believing he or she is a Christian?

No but maturing is important

 

[Eli1]

Jesus is the Truth, the Way, and the Life. Yet all of us on this board claim to be followers of the Truth through Scripture, the Bible both Old and New Testament. Yet there are so many different opinions as to Jesus' Truth on this message board. With so many different opinions about God's Truth, many just have to be wrong and have no truth in them.

On this board every major Christian topic has it's differing opinions. And the opinions are stubborn, it's as if many of us have declared ourselves our own 'little popes or Henry VIII, declaring ourselves and our own personal opinions as 'Jesus' Truth'. Many take snippets from Scripture, out of context, to prove their points. When you do this, you change the meaning of Scripture, mislead others, and you don't profess God's Word and Truth, you profess your word and truth.

No agreement at all on any major Christian issue whether it be Once Saved Always Saved, Merits of Water Baptism, the Rapture, Saved by Faith Alone, Obeying the 10 Commandments.....etc/etc/adnauseum..........

Back to my original question, the title of this thread, "How Can we Presume Ourselves to be Christion?" if we all have different truths?
With many presumed differing truths, many of us don't profess Jesus' Truths. And that's a problem.

Very good questions and reasoning and a big Amen here but we are Christians because we believe in Christ so that’s the commonality that makes us all right.

 

[Blik]

No but maturing is important

Christ doesn't ask us to grow in the knowledge of doctrine, Christ says to be like a little child.

Scripture tells us over and over it is love that defines a Christian.

1 Corinthians 13:13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:35

 

[arthurfleminger]

Very good questions and reasoning and a big Amen here but we are Christians because we believe in Christ so that’s the commonality that makes us all right.

Eli1, with all respect, you say that, "We all believe in Christ so that's a commonality that makes us all right."

I ask you what you mean by belief in Christ? Do you mean just believing in Christ as God and Savior, or in believing in all that He taught and commanded us to do? How deep or how superficial does one's belief in Jesus have to be to be a real Christian?

Besides faith and belief in Jesus, don't you have to love Jesus and follow his teachings and commandments to be a real Christian? Jesus asked His disciples, at the Last Supper, how can you say you love Me if you don't obey My commandments?" If you don't love Jesus you are surely a lost soul.

Or is just 'lip service' belief enough??????