Former pentecostal
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The word of God says to cast all our cares upon him, for he cares for us.
Every decision we make must be sought in Him and from his word and prayer.
No word from the Lord can come from a man that the Holy Spirit has already told you what you should do. Only confirmation of what is already known by you. Therefore God has told you what to do and you need to obey. There is only one choice. as I pray for you, the scripture that comes to mind is
Cast your cares on Him. Draw near to the Lord, and He will draw near to you. Avoid distractions and self-help schemes. Trust in the lord and his word, not seeking those who are "prophets" for a word. God desires to speak to you through prayer and HIS word; you are not hearing him because you are not listening because of a distraction.
May Lord bring clarity and discernment as you seek him.
Every decision we make must be sought in Him and from his word and prayer.
No word from the Lord can come from a man that the Holy Spirit has already told you what you should do. Only confirmation of what is already known by you. Therefore God has told you what to do and you need to obey. There is only one choice. as I pray for you, the scripture that comes to mind is
Cast your cares on Him. Draw near to the Lord, and He will draw near to you. Avoid distractions and self-help schemes. Trust in the lord and his word, not seeking those who are "prophets" for a word. God desires to speak to you through prayer and HIS word; you are not hearing him because you are not listening because of a distraction.
May Lord bring clarity and discernment as you seek him.
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English is a tongue. Spanish is a tongue. Each language is a tongue. Various noises might at times even be thought of as tongues. When a person is born again, they receive a brand new spirit from God. They begin to speak with new tongues at that point, meaning even though they speak their same language as they always did, they are now speaking from a new perspective. They begin to tell people about the wonderful things of God and of Jesus. They tell others how good he is and how he loves and forgives, for example. They also have a new spirit of judgment and discernment. The same new spirit. When they glorify God in the language that they always grew up with, English in my case, they are still speaking from the perspective of a new spirit. They are speaking in new tongues in that sense.
The Bible is written in parable language (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and people have not understood Acts 2 well in my opinion, looking at it as a surface text. Acts 2 says that the ones who spoke in new tongues by the spirit were all Galilieans. This means, in parable language, that they were of the Gentile outpouring, the church age if you will - Galilee of the Gentiles was a picture of this. People from all kinds of language backgrounds heard them speak in their own language the glories of God. The reason they heard it in their own languages is probably because the Galileans mentioned were most likely from all those different language backgrounds, Galilee having a parable meaning. The Day of Pentecost seems to be a kind of church age picture in which the Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh during the church age, if you will. That is just like what continues to go on today. A person from France speaking French is saved, and begins to speak from the new spirit they received the gospel of our Lord and other people who speak French hear the gospel and become saved and also receive the new spirit. The gift has not ceased.
People often think the term 'unknown tongue' indicates some sort of super special thing as well. In my opinion, this is saying that a born again person is speaking the gospel or other good things of God, but an unsaved person does not understand the gospel or the good things because they are not saved. So, the Bible says it is better to prophesy, meaning it is better to share the gospel to someone and to consequently have them be converted to Christ than to share the gospel and to have the gospel remain an unknown mystery to them because the have not converted. Paul would rather speak a few words and have someone convert to Christ than to speak a zillion words and the person not convert. So we pray that in sharing the gospel people will convert.
The Bible is written in parable language (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34) and people have not understood Acts 2 well in my opinion, looking at it as a surface text. Acts 2 says that the ones who spoke in new tongues by the spirit were all Galilieans. This means, in parable language, that they were of the Gentile outpouring, the church age if you will - Galilee of the Gentiles was a picture of this. People from all kinds of language backgrounds heard them speak in their own language the glories of God. The reason they heard it in their own languages is probably because the Galileans mentioned were most likely from all those different language backgrounds, Galilee having a parable meaning. The Day of Pentecost seems to be a kind of church age picture in which the Holy Spirit is poured out upon all flesh during the church age, if you will. That is just like what continues to go on today. A person from France speaking French is saved, and begins to speak from the new spirit they received the gospel of our Lord and other people who speak French hear the gospel and become saved and also receive the new spirit. The gift has not ceased.
People often think the term 'unknown tongue' indicates some sort of super special thing as well. In my opinion, this is saying that a born again person is speaking the gospel or other good things of God, but an unsaved person does not understand the gospel or the good things because they are not saved. So, the Bible says it is better to prophesy, meaning it is better to share the gospel to someone and to consequently have them be converted to Christ than to share the gospel and to have the gospel remain an unknown mystery to them because the have not converted. Paul would rather speak a few words and have someone convert to Christ than to speak a zillion words and the person not convert. So we pray that in sharing the gospel people will convert.
If you want to allegorize scripture like this, you almost havr to prophesy, "Thus saith the Lord" that your allegory is correct...referring to your Acts and I Corinthians commentary...otherwise tgere is no reason for others to believe it id true.
Convincing people that tge events of Acts 2 dod not happen and are some kind of coded allegory would be a tough sale. If you suggest allegory as another 'layer' of interpretation.. again the issue is why accept your allegorical interpretation.
The Bible also does not equate prophesying with sharing the gospel with someone. In Ephesians prophets, evangelists and those who are pastors and teachers are three different categories. In Deuteronomy 18 we read that God would put His words in the prophet's mouth. Peter describes prophesying in the Okd Testament as 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' The context of I of I Corinthians 14 is also a church meetings. A careful reading of these texts do not align with all your assertions
Convincing people that tge events of Acts 2 dod not happen and are some kind of coded allegory would be a tough sale. If you suggest allegory as another 'layer' of interpretation.. again the issue is why accept your allegorical interpretation.
The Bible also does not equate prophesying with sharing the gospel with someone. In Ephesians prophets, evangelists and those who are pastors and teachers are three different categories. In Deuteronomy 18 we read that God would put His words in the prophet's mouth. Peter describes prophesying in the Okd Testament as 'holy men of old spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.' The context of I of I Corinthians 14 is also a church meetings. A careful reading of these texts do not align with all your assertions
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I certainly can't find that restriction in the Bible. Maybe in the book of Kenneth Hagin, but not the Bible. I know some people in the Assemblies of God are hesitant of the idea of accepting a prophecy that is something you don't know that isn't 'confirmation', but I don't think there is a doctrinal statement on it because there is no scripture to back up the idea that a prophecy can't tell you something you don't know, and numerous, numerous scriptures that flat out contradict the idea. IMO, this is reactionary doctrine brought developed out of fear of false prophecy or bad experience with false prophecy.
Kenneth Hagin's argument was that the Romans 8 says for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, the same are the sons of God. In this passage, being 'led by the Spirit' comes after a section on issues related to the struggle with sin and walking in the Spirit. In Galatians it says if you are led by the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The context isn't the Spirit telling you where to get your new job or directing you into children's ministry at the church or something like that.
And the late Kenneth Hagin's interpretation doesn't make much sense because genuine prophecies come from the Spirit of God, anyway. I Corinthians 12 teaches that we have different gifts and that we are to minister to one another. To some degree, there is some interdependence in the body. Hagin assumed a kind of individualistic decision making into that verse in Romans 8 that just isn't mentioned there.
There are also numerous Old Testament passages where it sure seems like the person hearing the prophecy had no clue it was going to happen. For example, is there any reason to think that Jeroboam or Jehu thought they would be king before they heard prophets prophesy this? I don't see how one could read about Saul and Samuel and conclude that Saul knew he was going to rule Israel before he got that prophecy from Samuel.
Did Israel know all that stuff in the Torah before Moses prophesied the law to them?
Then some people will say, 'But that's Old Testament.' But the New Testament never puts a restriction on the Holy Spirit to not tell someone something they don't know through another person prophesying either.
What about the book of Revelation? That is a book of prophecy. Did each individual in those churches that got those seven letters know every single thing in those letters and in the whole book of Revelation? Paul received a revelation of the mystery about the Gentiles that God had revealed to him, and also to prophets. So did every believer hear all that directly from God, or did they actually learn something God had revealed to Paul through reading his letters? Does a new believer know all these things now, or does he have to read the revelation in scripture?
In real life, those long detailed prophecies that confirm a lot of facts that you know about yourself and what God has been telling you also sometimes have a little bit extra in there that you haven't considered.
If someone gives you a false prophecy and you act on it, you are responsible for your decision. If someone gives you a true prophecy and you do not act on it, you are responsible for your decision. That makes a lot more sense than saying God won't give prophecies that aren't confirmation of something you already know... because that assertion does not match how prophecy worked in the Bible.
But for a lot of things, you don't need to have a prophecy. If you are making a decision and you pray and you don't get a dream or someone doesn't prophesy to you about it to confirm your decision, you can trust the Lord with all your heart, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and trust that He will direct your path. You pray about it, honor God in the decision, then ask for wisdom and believe that you have received. James 1 has a great promise about praying for wisdom in faith.
Kenneth Hagin's argument was that the Romans 8 says for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, the same are the sons of God. In this passage, being 'led by the Spirit' comes after a section on issues related to the struggle with sin and walking in the Spirit. In Galatians it says if you are led by the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. The context isn't the Spirit telling you where to get your new job or directing you into children's ministry at the church or something like that.
And the late Kenneth Hagin's interpretation doesn't make much sense because genuine prophecies come from the Spirit of God, anyway. I Corinthians 12 teaches that we have different gifts and that we are to minister to one another. To some degree, there is some interdependence in the body. Hagin assumed a kind of individualistic decision making into that verse in Romans 8 that just isn't mentioned there.
There are also numerous Old Testament passages where it sure seems like the person hearing the prophecy had no clue it was going to happen. For example, is there any reason to think that Jeroboam or Jehu thought they would be king before they heard prophets prophesy this? I don't see how one could read about Saul and Samuel and conclude that Saul knew he was going to rule Israel before he got that prophecy from Samuel.
Did Israel know all that stuff in the Torah before Moses prophesied the law to them?
Then some people will say, 'But that's Old Testament.' But the New Testament never puts a restriction on the Holy Spirit to not tell someone something they don't know through another person prophesying either.
What about the book of Revelation? That is a book of prophecy. Did each individual in those churches that got those seven letters know every single thing in those letters and in the whole book of Revelation? Paul received a revelation of the mystery about the Gentiles that God had revealed to him, and also to prophets. So did every believer hear all that directly from God, or did they actually learn something God had revealed to Paul through reading his letters? Does a new believer know all these things now, or does he have to read the revelation in scripture?
In real life, those long detailed prophecies that confirm a lot of facts that you know about yourself and what God has been telling you also sometimes have a little bit extra in there that you haven't considered.
If someone gives you a false prophecy and you act on it, you are responsible for your decision. If someone gives you a true prophecy and you do not act on it, you are responsible for your decision. That makes a lot more sense than saying God won't give prophecies that aren't confirmation of something you already know... because that assertion does not match how prophecy worked in the Bible.
But for a lot of things, you don't need to have a prophecy. If you are making a decision and you pray and you don't get a dream or someone doesn't prophesy to you about it to confirm your decision, you can trust the Lord with all your heart, in all your ways acknowledge Him, and trust that He will direct your path. You pray about it, honor God in the decision, then ask for wisdom and believe that you have received. James 1 has a great promise about praying for wisdom in faith.
Your comment was amibguous, or rather could have been interpreted many different ways, so I tried to cover a couple of different 'bases' as to what it might mean in making my own comment.
There was a difference in that in one case, others understood as their own language and in the other they did not. And there is no reason to think the tongues were the same tongues...literally, as in the same languages.
There was a difference in that in one case, others understood as their own language and in the other they did not. And there is no reason to think the tongues were the same tongues...literally, as in the same languages.
you can be insulting all you would like.
FYI are you suggesting that if you seek God about something through prayer and His word and The Holy Spirit guides you on what to do, that a man can come and speak to you something different than what God showed you? YOU do not know me, and I would appreciate it if you would not assume you do.
Second If you were immature, you would know that Giving a person a word from the Lord in this setting is very irresponsible of one who is used in the Prophetic.
You don't know what you are talking about, and if you knew 1cor chapters 12 through 14, you would understand the context of Prophecy and tongues and interpretation. I have been used in word of Knowledge, tongues, and interpretation, and prophesying. In addition, the gift of Healing as an evangelist that God has called me to be for over 30 years.
If you have an issue with K. Hagin, please take it up with him. I am not a follower of him or his son.
If you do not see the context of Prophesying, let the elders judge, and the end results in 1cor 12 through 14 and how the gift is used today that is on you. 1. Bring Glory to God 2. it must edify, comfort, and exhort 3. 4. must line up with the Word of God, and 5. it must confirm what is known. You not knowing this or where it is in the word of God because of your bias is not my problem
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God bless
FYI are you suggesting that if you seek God about something through prayer and His word and The Holy Spirit guides you on what to do, that a man can come and speak to you something different than what God showed you? YOU do not know me, and I would appreciate it if you would not assume you do.
Second If you were immature, you would know that Giving a person a word from the Lord in this setting is very irresponsible of one who is used in the Prophetic.
You don't know what you are talking about, and if you knew 1cor chapters 12 through 14, you would understand the context of Prophecy and tongues and interpretation. I have been used in word of Knowledge, tongues, and interpretation, and prophesying. In addition, the gift of Healing as an evangelist that God has called me to be for over 30 years.
If you have an issue with K. Hagin, please take it up with him. I am not a follower of him or his son.
If you do not see the context of Prophesying, let the elders judge, and the end results in 1cor 12 through 14 and how the gift is used today that is on you. 1. Bring Glory to God 2. it must edify, comfort, and exhort 3. 4. must line up with the Word of God, and 5. it must confirm what is known. You not knowing this or where it is in the word of God because of your bias is not my problem
.God bless
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Thanks presidente for your comments. Since the Bible says that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, I equate a believer sharing any testimony of Jesus as being called 'prophesy'. The dry bones in Ezekiel were told to hear the word of the Lord. The word of the Lord is the gospel, the Bible, Jesus. I see the two witnesses in Revelation who prophesy as being a picture of the believers sharing the testimony of Jesus. I don't see them as actually being two persons except in the parable language of Revelation. In fact, I see them as all believers in Christ sharing the good news of Christ and so forth.
As regards what you term an allegory, I prefer to use the term parable, since the Bible is said to be written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34). I am not saying that the events in Acts did not happen, as you suggest I am saying. I am simply saying that to understand what is going on, we must approach scripture as a parable. For example, I am not saying that Moses did not strike a rock so that water would come forth to save a thirsty people. Rather, that to understand that event in its full meaning we might say that Jesus is the rock that was struck so that those who are thirsty for salvation may drink freely.
As regards what you term an allegory, I prefer to use the term parable, since the Bible is said to be written in parable form (Psalm 78:1-2, Mark 4:34). I am not saying that the events in Acts did not happen, as you suggest I am saying. I am simply saying that to understand what is going on, we must approach scripture as a parable. For example, I am not saying that Moses did not strike a rock so that water would come forth to save a thirsty people. Rather, that to understand that event in its full meaning we might say that Jesus is the rock that was struck so that those who are thirsty for salvation may drink freely.
My comment was not meant to be insulting. I do know Hagin wrote this in one of his books (or it was transcribed into a book for his ministry.) The idea that prophecy has to be confirmation is also popular in the A/G and some other groups. But I can't find it in the Bible. It seems to be a reactionary teaching.
That's a straw man. If God tells you, "Never go to China" and someone else prophesies that you are to go to China... that's a different scenario. If you had never thought about going to China, and someone prophesies that you will one day do evangelism in China... the fact that you hadn't heard anything about it before doesn't prove the prophecy to be false.
When I was in college, a man who had been out of school a few years came to our Bible study. He'd been selling insurance, but he'd find himself sharing the gospel or praying with people during his sales calls. Years before, he'd gone to a meeting where a well-known Pentecostal pastor and evangelist had pointed him out and gave him a word that God had a call on his life, and about his ministry call. He'd been thinking abou that. He was a child, and from what I gather, I don't think he'd heard God say that about him.
What setting is irresponsible? Do you mean outside of church? I'm just guessing that is what you meant. I didn't mention a setting. 'Personal prophecies' happen in church meeting also, and they can happen outside of one-on-one altar call ministry as well. But even outside of church, the Bible does not forbid it. We read about probably one-on-one encounters with prophets. I was reading with my kids about Jeroboam and Adonijah the Shilonite yesterday. Did Agabus prophesy over Paul in a church meeting? Philip and his daughters might have been there. Was that 'in church.' It might be safer to get words in the assembly where others can judge, but that does not put a limitation on God.
Plenty of people who have been used in the prophetic for years give words one-on-one.
That doesn't make the prophets in the Bible wrong for prophesying over people who had no clue about what they were talking about before they got the prophecy, or for prophesying outside of church (or whatever your beef was in that previous paragraph.
I have known people who quote Hagin almost like his works are the Bible, young overzealous Rhema grads back in the day, and other fans. But I don't of anything someone could cite for the idea that it has to be confirmation besides Hagin. I can't find it in the Bible. Even if by confirmation one means 'it has to bear witness with my spirit'-- the validity of a prophecy is not dependent on the ability of the one hearing it to perceive it's genuineness.
If you prophesied over someone and they actually gave you some feedback, and said, "That one thing you prophesied about me that you said I would do, I had never thought of that before" would that make your prophecy false?
I'm not against elders being in on the judging. it says 'let the other judge.'
That is a convenient dodge. Where is it 'it must confirm what is known' in the Bible? I'm a Bible teacher, myself, and I've done various types of ministry. I've also read the Bible for decades, did detailed word studies on prophecy, prophets, Ephesians 4:11 ministries, studied intently to learn how prophecy works according to scripture. I've never seen any scripture that says the prophecy has to be known by the listener for it to be true. I already mentioned some cases where it is extremely unlikely the listeners knew it.
I challenge you to support doctrinal point 5 from scripture. As for the rest, I agree with that, but I don't think point 2 means it has to be milk toast-- how I've heard some (not saying you) interpret it, since the book of Revelation is prophesy, and edifying, but not emotional-cotton-candy reading. Also, do you think the readers of the book of Revelation... for the first time... knew everything in it before the book of __prophecy__ was written?
That's a straw man. If God tells you, "Never go to China" and someone else prophesies that you are to go to China... that's a different scenario. If you had never thought about going to China, and someone prophesies that you will one day do evangelism in China... the fact that you hadn't heard anything about it before doesn't prove the prophecy to be false.
When I was in college, a man who had been out of school a few years came to our Bible study. He'd been selling insurance, but he'd find himself sharing the gospel or praying with people during his sales calls. Years before, he'd gone to a meeting where a well-known Pentecostal pastor and evangelist had pointed him out and gave him a word that God had a call on his life, and about his ministry call. He'd been thinking abou that. He was a child, and from what I gather, I don't think he'd heard God say that about him.
What setting is irresponsible? Do you mean outside of church? I'm just guessing that is what you meant. I didn't mention a setting. 'Personal prophecies' happen in church meeting also, and they can happen outside of one-on-one altar call ministry as well. But even outside of church, the Bible does not forbid it. We read about probably one-on-one encounters with prophets. I was reading with my kids about Jeroboam and Adonijah the Shilonite yesterday. Did Agabus prophesy over Paul in a church meeting? Philip and his daughters might have been there. Was that 'in church.' It might be safer to get words in the assembly where others can judge, but that does not put a limitation on God.
Plenty of people who have been used in the prophetic for years give words one-on-one.
That doesn't make the prophets in the Bible wrong for prophesying over people who had no clue about what they were talking about before they got the prophecy, or for prophesying outside of church (or whatever your beef was in that previous paragraph.
I have known people who quote Hagin almost like his works are the Bible, young overzealous Rhema grads back in the day, and other fans. But I don't of anything someone could cite for the idea that it has to be confirmation besides Hagin. I can't find it in the Bible. Even if by confirmation one means 'it has to bear witness with my spirit'-- the validity of a prophecy is not dependent on the ability of the one hearing it to perceive it's genuineness.
If you prophesied over someone and they actually gave you some feedback, and said, "That one thing you prophesied about me that you said I would do, I had never thought of that before" would that make your prophecy false?
I'm not against elders being in on the judging. it says 'let the other judge.'
1. Bring Glory to God 2. it must edify, comfort, and exhort 3. 4. must line up with the Word of God, and 5. it must confirm what is known. You not knowing this or where it is in the word of God because of your bias is not my problem .
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I challenge you to support doctrinal point 5 from scripture. As for the rest, I agree with that, but I don't think point 2 means it has to be milk toast-- how I've heard some (not saying you) interpret it, since the book of Revelation is prophesy, and edifying, but not emotional-cotton-candy reading. Also, do you think the readers of the book of Revelation... for the first time... knew everything in it before the book of __prophecy__ was written?
My comment was not meant to be insulting. I do know Hagin wrote this in one of his books (or it was transcribed into a book for his ministry.) The idea that prophecy has to be confirmation is also popular in the A/G and some other groups. But I can't find it in the Bible. It seems to be a reactionary teaching.
Again you do not know me and that is notmy problem you can't see what is in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 which I gave you as my text reference.
That's a straw man. If God tells you, "Never go to China" and someone else prophesies that you are to go to China... that's a different scenario. If you had never thought about going to China, and someone prophesies that you will one day do evangelism in China... the fact that you hadn't heard anything about it before doesn't prove the prophecy to be false.
1. you must not have the call of God on your life to go to the nations. The Burden for a nation starts with you, not with a Prophecy. AS you should know, God only send who is qualified and that has been prepared. God telling one to go to China and a person telling them God said to go is not a different scenario. The word from the man who says it is from the Lord MUST BE Tested. as 1cor chapter 14 says.
When I was in college, a man who had been out of school a few years came to our Bible study. He'd been selling insurance, but he'd find himself sharing the gospel or praying with people during his sales calls. Years before, he'd gone to a meeting where a well-known Pentecostal pastor and evangelist had pointed him out and gave him a word that God had a call on his life, and about his ministry call. He'd been thinking about that. From what I gather, he was a child, and I don't think he'd heard God say that about him.
What setting is irresponsible? Do you mean outside of church? I'm just guessing that is what you meant. I didn't mention a setting. 'Personal prophecies' happen in church meeting also, and they can happen outside of one-on-one altar call ministry as well. But even outside of church, the Bible does not forbid it. We read about probably one-on-one encounters with prophets. I was reading with my kids about Jeroboam and Adonijah the Shilonite yesterday. Did Agabus prophesy over Paul in a church meeting? Philip and his daughters might have been there. Was that 'in church.' It might be safer to get words in the assembly where others can judge, but that does not put a limitation on God.
Plenty of people who have been used in the prophetic for years give words one-on-one.
I AGREE, YET THAT WORD IS TO BE JUDGED AND CONFIRMED OUT OD THE MOUTH OF TWO WITNESSES.
Christian chat is not the place to give a word from the Lord for some very present reasons.
1. There is no accountability to the person who gets it wrong here
2. there is no site Pastor or authority other than Admin and Moderators
3. You may be a she or a he acting as she or he.
4. your real name I think, is not presidente,
That doesn't make the prophets in the Bible wrong for prophesying over people who had no clue about what they were talking about before they got the prophecy, or for prophesying outside of church (or whatever your beef was in that previous paragraph.
You are not being contextual in your point. 1. a person who prophesies doesn't mean they hold the office of a Prophet. 2. 1cor context of Prophesying is speaking under the inspiration to proclaim like preaching. it is not forth telling or foretelling. It is to exhort, comfort, and edify as 1cor chapter 12 through 14 states. Have no beef only the meat of the word
I have known people who quote Hagin almost like his works are the Bible, young overzealous Rhema grads back in the day, and other fans. But I don't of anything someone could cite for the idea that it has to be confirmation besides Hagin. I can't find it in the Bible. Even if by confirmation one means 'it has to bear witness with my spirit'-- the validity of a prophecy is not dependent on the ability of the one hearing it to perceive it's genuineness.
I am happy to hear you are a follower of a person you like. That is you not me.
If you prophesied over someone and they actually gave you some feedback, and said, "That one thing you prophesied about me that you said I would do, I had never thought of that before" would that make your prophecy false?
I will try to tell you slower. If you are prophesying to a person, the end result MUST BE achieved, which are: 1. bring glory to God 2. Edify, comfort, or exhort. 3. Line up with the Word of God 4. Be confirmation to a person or witnesses. If the person who is prophesying doesn't see these things, he or she needs to stop and sit down and shut up.
I'm not against elders being in on the judging. it says 'let the other judge.' FYI Context
That is a convenient dodge. Where is it 'it must confirm what is known' in the Bible? I'm a Bible teacher, myself, and I've done various types of ministry. I've also read the Bible for decades, did detailed word studies on prophecy, prophets, Ephesians 4:11 ministries, studied intently to learn how prophecy works according to scripture. I've never seen any scripture that says the prophecy has to be known by the listener for it to be true. I already mentioned some cases where it is extremely unlikely the listeners knew it.
I challenge you to support doctrinal point 5 from scripture. As for the rest, I agree with that, but I don't think point 2 means it has to be milk toast-- how I've heard some (not saying you) interpret it, since the book of Revelation is prophesy, and edifying, but not emotional-cotton-candy reading. Also, do you think the readers of the book of Revelation... for the first time... knew everything in it before the book of __prophecy__ was written?
Again you do not know me and that is notmy problem you can't see what is in 1cor chapter 12 through 14 which I gave you as my text reference.
That's a straw man. If God tells you, "Never go to China" and someone else prophesies that you are to go to China... that's a different scenario. If you had never thought about going to China, and someone prophesies that you will one day do evangelism in China... the fact that you hadn't heard anything about it before doesn't prove the prophecy to be false.
1. you must not have the call of God on your life to go to the nations. The Burden for a nation starts with you, not with a Prophecy. AS you should know, God only send who is qualified and that has been prepared. God telling one to go to China and a person telling them God said to go is not a different scenario. The word from the man who says it is from the Lord MUST BE Tested. as 1cor chapter 14 says.
When I was in college, a man who had been out of school a few years came to our Bible study. He'd been selling insurance, but he'd find himself sharing the gospel or praying with people during his sales calls. Years before, he'd gone to a meeting where a well-known Pentecostal pastor and evangelist had pointed him out and gave him a word that God had a call on his life, and about his ministry call. He'd been thinking about that. From what I gather, he was a child, and I don't think he'd heard God say that about him.
What setting is irresponsible? Do you mean outside of church? I'm just guessing that is what you meant. I didn't mention a setting. 'Personal prophecies' happen in church meeting also, and they can happen outside of one-on-one altar call ministry as well. But even outside of church, the Bible does not forbid it. We read about probably one-on-one encounters with prophets. I was reading with my kids about Jeroboam and Adonijah the Shilonite yesterday. Did Agabus prophesy over Paul in a church meeting? Philip and his daughters might have been there. Was that 'in church.' It might be safer to get words in the assembly where others can judge, but that does not put a limitation on God.
Plenty of people who have been used in the prophetic for years give words one-on-one.
I AGREE, YET THAT WORD IS TO BE JUDGED AND CONFIRMED OUT OD THE MOUTH OF TWO WITNESSES.
Christian chat is not the place to give a word from the Lord for some very present reasons.
1. There is no accountability to the person who gets it wrong here
2. there is no site Pastor or authority other than Admin and Moderators
3. You may be a she or a he acting as she or he.
4. your real name I think, is not presidente,
That doesn't make the prophets in the Bible wrong for prophesying over people who had no clue about what they were talking about before they got the prophecy, or for prophesying outside of church (or whatever your beef was in that previous paragraph.
You are not being contextual in your point. 1. a person who prophesies doesn't mean they hold the office of a Prophet. 2. 1cor context of Prophesying is speaking under the inspiration to proclaim like preaching. it is not forth telling or foretelling. It is to exhort, comfort, and edify as 1cor chapter 12 through 14 states. Have no beef
only the meat of the word I have known people who quote Hagin almost like his works are the Bible, young overzealous Rhema grads back in the day, and other fans. But I don't of anything someone could cite for the idea that it has to be confirmation besides Hagin. I can't find it in the Bible. Even if by confirmation one means 'it has to bear witness with my spirit'-- the validity of a prophecy is not dependent on the ability of the one hearing it to perceive it's genuineness.
I am happy to hear you are a follower of a person you like. That is you not me.
If you prophesied over someone and they actually gave you some feedback, and said, "That one thing you prophesied about me that you said I would do, I had never thought of that before" would that make your prophecy false?
I will try to tell you slower. If you are prophesying to a person, the end result MUST BE achieved, which are: 1. bring glory to God 2. Edify, comfort, or exhort. 3. Line up with the Word of God 4. Be confirmation to a person or witnesses. If the person who is prophesying doesn't see these things, he or she needs to stop and sit down and shut up.
I'm not against elders being in on the judging. it says 'let the other judge.' FYI Context
That is a convenient dodge. Where is it 'it must confirm what is known' in the Bible? I'm a Bible teacher, myself, and I've done various types of ministry. I've also read the Bible for decades, did detailed word studies on prophecy, prophets, Ephesians 4:11 ministries, studied intently to learn how prophecy works according to scripture. I've never seen any scripture that says the prophecy has to be known by the listener for it to be true. I already mentioned some cases where it is extremely unlikely the listeners knew it.
I challenge you to support doctrinal point 5 from scripture. As for the rest, I agree with that, but I don't think point 2 means it has to be milk toast-- how I've heard some (not saying you) interpret it, since the book of Revelation is prophesy, and edifying, but not emotional-cotton-candy reading. Also, do you think the readers of the book of Revelation... for the first time... knew everything in it before the book of __prophecy__ was written?
I did.
I provided you 1cor chapters 12 through 14. In addition, you can read John 14 through 15, and you can read James chapter 5 and Eph chapter 4, known as the didmi
I love what Paul said in the later verse of chapter 14 of 1cor.
Desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues. 40 Let all things be done decently and in order.
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When I was a Bible Quizzer, I memorized all those books except Ephesians, and I have read those books I do not know how many times. I never read any scripture that says a prophecy has to be about previously known information or something God already spoke to the listener for it to be genuine. If you have a verse reference I would be interested in seeing it. I am not talking about modern believers getting new doctrine in a prophecy btw.
This sort of thing is important. Those of us who teach the word should be careful not to just repeat stuff other preachers have said if it hasn't been revealed by God. Our doctrine..not just prophecies... needs to line up with scripture, including our doctrines about prophecy.
Someone who believes this might reject a genuine word he gets if he believes this teaching because part of the prophecy was something he did not know already.
But where does the Bible teach this, and why are there so many examples in scripture that contradict this doctrine?
This sort of thing is important. Those of us who teach the word should be careful not to just repeat stuff other preachers have said if it hasn't been revealed by God. Our doctrine..not just prophecies... needs to line up with scripture, including our doctrines about prophecy.
Someone who believes this might reject a genuine word he gets if he believes this teaching because part of the prophecy was something he did not know already.
But where does the Bible teach this, and why are there so many examples in scripture that contradict this doctrine?
you jumped CS1 over a response that ultimately dealt with a person, who was once Saved and full of the Holy Spirit but now believes God has left them.
that person was already addressed they do not need a Prophet because a Prophet would confirm to that person that God had NEVER left them. that they should stop thinking God left them. they should get alone and pray to God and renew what God wants to restore.
why do you stick your nose into business you clearly have no idea what is happening?
that person was already addressed they do not need a Prophet because a Prophet would confirm to that person that God had NEVER left them. that they should stop thinking God left them. they should get alone and pray to God and renew what God wants to restore.
why do you stick your nose into business you clearly have no idea what is happening?
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