And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
- Thread starter kleronomos
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
That is the whole point. The PUNISHMENT is the becoming NOTHING.
Pain, torment takes life. Death is becoming nothing.
Death is merciful
eternal torment is evil, cruel, wicked nasty, and even them most evil people don't deserve that.
JUST is giving NO MORE than one deserves. No soul deserves to be in torment 10,000 years from now for something they did in a few minutes of anger that they just couldn't let go of DO THEY?
Let's say Hitler has been being tortured for the past 100,000 years. What has been accomplished? What will the next 100,00 years of torture bring forth? How about the next 100,000 years? Let's say that his soul was sorry for being wicked after the first year of the eternal torture. Then is he just in a truly sorry state for all of eternity even though he has finally changed? But what good does change do?
We know it is all away from the presence of the Lord. If the Lord is everywhere then WHERE IS THE LAKE OF FIRE? If we will have no remembrance of any of them, and won't be around it or not know it is happening what is the point.
I can't tell you what the point would be because I CAN'T SEE IT. YOU can so YOU NEED TO TELL US WHAT IS THE POINT?
Why is death not 'good enough'? Why does there have to be unending pain? IT CAN'T BE ABOUT THE WORDS as the words are given to convey a concept.
AGAIN, I can't ANSWER THIS QUESTION it is not my belief but since you are soo in favor of it why would God command such a punishment against a soul?
Why would God not be merciful even to someone who didn't deserve mercy? Doesn't His long suffering tell you that HE IS FULL OF MERCY? Doesn't GOD being that way tell you HE COULDN'T create a soul and then keep it alive to cause it pain forever? without any hope? without any purpose? without anyone being aware except for that soul?
Do you really FEEL that from the GOD of the Bible? WHAT verses do you read that make you BELIEVE that it isn't going to be HARD ENOUGH to sentence them to DEATH.
Ceasing to exist isn't good enough. WHY NOT? Taking away their body and soul and spirit isn't enough of a punishment? Not being able to live and breath and love and all the other things God has planned isn't enough punishment?
There is torment in hell. They will be in torment for at least 1000 years. If you were GOD wouldn't that be long enough to find out if there was any sort of redeeming factor of any sort to where you could give life instead of death?
Pain, torment takes life. Death is becoming nothing.
Death is merciful
eternal torment is evil, cruel, wicked nasty, and even them most evil people don't deserve that.
JUST is giving NO MORE than one deserves. No soul deserves to be in torment 10,000 years from now for something they did in a few minutes of anger that they just couldn't let go of DO THEY?
Let's say Hitler has been being tortured for the past 100,000 years. What has been accomplished? What will the next 100,00 years of torture bring forth? How about the next 100,000 years? Let's say that his soul was sorry for being wicked after the first year of the eternal torture. Then is he just in a truly sorry state for all of eternity even though he has finally changed? But what good does change do?
We know it is all away from the presence of the Lord. If the Lord is everywhere then WHERE IS THE LAKE OF FIRE? If we will have no remembrance of any of them, and won't be around it or not know it is happening what is the point.
I can't tell you what the point would be because I CAN'T SEE IT. YOU can so YOU NEED TO TELL US WHAT IS THE POINT?
Why is death not 'good enough'? Why does there have to be unending pain? IT CAN'T BE ABOUT THE WORDS as the words are given to convey a concept.
AGAIN, I can't ANSWER THIS QUESTION it is not my belief but since you are soo in favor of it why would God command such a punishment against a soul?
Why would God not be merciful even to someone who didn't deserve mercy? Doesn't His long suffering tell you that HE IS FULL OF MERCY? Doesn't GOD being that way tell you HE COULDN'T create a soul and then keep it alive to cause it pain forever? without any hope? without any purpose? without anyone being aware except for that soul?
Do you really FEEL that from the GOD of the Bible? WHAT verses do you read that make you BELIEVE that it isn't going to be HARD ENOUGH to sentence them to DEATH.
Ceasing to exist isn't good enough. WHY NOT? Taking away their body and soul and spirit isn't enough of a punishment? Not being able to live and breath and love and all the other things God has planned isn't enough punishment?
There is torment in hell. They will be in torment for at least 1000 years. If you were GOD wouldn't that be long enough to find out if there was any sort of redeeming factor of any sort to where you could give life instead of death?
-
1
- Show all
Maybe they are sadists... alongside being blind to the fact that death is given as
punishment in a multitude of places from beginning to end of Scripture. Given that
fact, that any can continually claim death is not punishment merely shows how willingly
they throw over a plethora of verses to cling to their Roman Catholic fantasy.
punishment in a multitude of places from beginning to end of Scripture. Given that
fact, that any can continually claim death is not punishment merely shows how willingly
they throw over a plethora of verses to cling to their Roman Catholic fantasy.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
He disagrees with a LOT of Scripture... as you can see above... he doles out those red Xs quite freely 
Disagreement is with you. Stop the attempt of transference.
You think you are cute with injecting artistree......it doesn't fit. Do it on the Satanic board, atheist board, etc...if you wish to abuse....not on the Christian board. Stop degrading God' with your salacious treatment of His word.
His word stands above all enhancements that you could ever imagine.
You are slow on getting the message.
If you are going to persist..so can my disagreement.
Now that I have been able to get my jaw up off the floor, having gone and looked up the word salacious, just to let YOU know,
NOT ONE fiber of my being ever felt, NOT ONE time DID the thought cross my mind, NOT ONCE was there ever a single tug on my heart
in THAT DIRECTION.
YOU OWE her AN HUGE APOLOGY. TALK about transference. As for me I am dusting off and walking away. Have a nice life.
And THAT is the whole point. To cease to exist means to cease to think, feel, experience. There is NO punishment when you don't exist. But you guys just don't want to get it.
Well, there's all that hyper emotionalism about unbelievers again.
Actually EVERY ONE of the unbelievers DO DESERVE just that. Why? Because they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting the free gift of eternal life that would SAVE them from the LOF. God has given His Word to the world. And those who have "listened and LEARNED from the Father" will come to Jesus. So says John 6:45.
But your mauldin sentimentality just keeps getting in the way. Since YOU believe that ECT is "evil, cruel, wied nasty", you know you just can't admit that God WILL judge unbelievers with ECT, so you HAVE TO come up with another plan, oh, let's say, like the atheists have already.
Who are you to define what one "deserves"? You ain't God. You are a flawed human bean. You just don't want to accept the truth, since it OFFENDS you.
Extreme maudlin sentimentality on display. Nothing about being a drunk. EVERTHING about being hyper-emotional and failure to simply believe what the Bible says about those who will be cast into the LOF.
Fulfillment of God's WARNING, obviously. But that seems to be "not much" in your poor eyes.
Continuation of God's fulfillment of His warning.
Look, I can go on for ever and ever. You're feeling sorry for those who have NO EXCUSE. That's YOUR problem. Not God's.
Wow. It seems your hyper-emotional maudlin sentimentality has no bounds.
But since you reject the truth of Jesus' account of the afterlife in the OT in Luke 16, you wouldn't know that Jesus made clear that the rich man, in torments, realized HIS MISTAKE and didn't want his 5 brothers to make the same mistake and end up where he was.
So being "sorry" for their sickness is just a sorry excuse.
Tough bite. Everyone has their opportunity and chance while living on earth to seek God and avoid the LOF. Everyone.
Too late. Tough bite.
Please don't ask dumb questions. If God wanted man to know, He would have included it in the Bible.
I doubt the point will penetrate your skull, due to your over-abundance of hyper-emotionalism and all that sentimentality and all, but the point is that when God makes a promise, He keeps it. And when God warns of judgment, He carries through with it.
When you enter eternity, you can ask God all this very silly questions.
Too much for your delicate sentiments, huh?
Very simple. He has revealed Himself so that everyone CAN know that He exists as Creator, and everyone who seeks Him will find Him.
And along with the promise of eternal life is the warning about the opposite; ECT for ever and ever.
So all your emotions about being unfair, etc for unbelievers is worthless. They have chosen their fate. God is simply giving it to them.
Another silly question you will have to ask God about.
Almost whining now.
The reality is that God isn't crippled with the extreme emotionalism that you seem to possess. He is perfect, and when perfect God promises eternal life AND warns of the LOF for unbelievers, He carries through because He KEEPS HIS WORD.
Ceasing to exist isn't even in the Bible.
Don't you know that scholars have estimated that Adam was on earth sometime between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago? So every unbeliever who has died since Adam fell over dead has been in Hades since then. And there's still at least 1,000 years MORE of Hades, called torments. And then the GWT judgment, and THEN, the LOF, where they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Seems you really have no clue about God or His plan for mankind, do you.
The key here is "if you were God". Since none of us are, the "if" is stupid. A worthless pondering about. No point in it.
But thank you for your frequent expressions of maudlin sentimentality here. God is NOT sentimental. That is a flawed human attribute, not any part of His divine attributes.
He is perfect justice. He WILL carry through ALL He has promised, and all He was warned about.
But you can't take it. You don't have the stomach for it, obviously.
Well, there's all that hyper emotionalism about unbelievers again.
Actually EVERY ONE of the unbelievers DO DESERVE just that. Why? Because they have NO EXCUSE for rejecting the free gift of eternal life that would SAVE them from the LOF. God has given His Word to the world. And those who have "listened and LEARNED from the Father" will come to Jesus. So says John 6:45.
But your mauldin sentimentality just keeps getting in the way. Since YOU believe that ECT is "evil, cruel, wied nasty", you know you just can't admit that God WILL judge unbelievers with ECT, so you HAVE TO come up with another plan, oh, let's say, like the atheists have already.
Who are you to define what one "deserves"? You ain't God. You are a flawed human bean. You just don't want to accept the truth, since it OFFENDS you.
Extreme maudlin sentimentality on display. Nothing about being a drunk. EVERTHING about being hyper-emotional and failure to simply believe what the Bible says about those who will be cast into the LOF.
Fulfillment of God's WARNING, obviously. But that seems to be "not much" in your poor eyes.
Continuation of God's fulfillment of His warning.
Look, I can go on for ever and ever. You're feeling sorry for those who have NO EXCUSE. That's YOUR problem. Not God's.
Wow. It seems your hyper-emotional maudlin sentimentality has no bounds.
But since you reject the truth of Jesus' account of the afterlife in the OT in Luke 16, you wouldn't know that Jesus made clear that the rich man, in torments, realized HIS MISTAKE and didn't want his 5 brothers to make the same mistake and end up where he was.
So being "sorry" for their sickness is just a sorry excuse.
Tough bite. Everyone has their opportunity and chance while living on earth to seek God and avoid the LOF. Everyone.
Too late. Tough bite.
Please don't ask dumb questions. If God wanted man to know, He would have included it in the Bible.
I doubt the point will penetrate your skull, due to your over-abundance of hyper-emotionalism and all that sentimentality and all, but the point is that when God makes a promise, He keeps it. And when God warns of judgment, He carries through with it.
When you enter eternity, you can ask God all this very silly questions.
Too much for your delicate sentiments, huh?
Very simple. He has revealed Himself so that everyone CAN know that He exists as Creator, and everyone who seeks Him will find Him.
And along with the promise of eternal life is the warning about the opposite; ECT for ever and ever.
So all your emotions about being unfair, etc for unbelievers is worthless. They have chosen their fate. God is simply giving it to them.
Another silly question you will have to ask God about.
Almost whining now.
The reality is that God isn't crippled with the extreme emotionalism that you seem to possess. He is perfect, and when perfect God promises eternal life AND warns of the LOF for unbelievers, He carries through because He KEEPS HIS WORD.
Ceasing to exist isn't even in the Bible.
Don't you know that scholars have estimated that Adam was on earth sometime between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago? So every unbeliever who has died since Adam fell over dead has been in Hades since then. And there's still at least 1,000 years MORE of Hades, called torments. And then the GWT judgment, and THEN, the LOF, where they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Seems you really have no clue about God or His plan for mankind, do you.
The key here is "if you were God". Since none of us are, the "if" is stupid. A worthless pondering about. No point in it.
But thank you for your frequent expressions of maudlin sentimentality here. God is NOT sentimental. That is a flawed human attribute, not any part of His divine attributes.
He is perfect justice. He WILL carry through ALL He has promised, and all He was warned about.
But you can't take it. You don't have the stomach for it, obviously.
Oh, that's just rich. No, we read IN the Bible that those cast into the LOF will be tormented day and night for ever and ever, and there's NOTHING you can do about it.
All we are doing is believing what we read in the Bible.
otoh, we can't find any verse about souls ceasing to exist. We can't find any verse about "only beast and FP" will experience ECT but none of the rest of unbelievers will.
Our views are biblical. Your views come from your own sentimentality. And all of our (humans) attributes are flawed. Every last one.
Here's a fact for you. In all of those verses, "death" refers to physical death, as in capital punishment.
You seem unable to rightly divide the Word of Truth and discern this fact.
-
1
- Show all
I think post 2,064 explains everything we need to know to understand the mind of the annihilationists.
They just can't accept that God will keep His promise of an eternity in the LOF.
The reason they can't accept this is clearly seen in the cited post. The poster even thought that it would be "hard enough" (I kid you not) for God to sentence someone to death!!!!! As if God has a huge dose of maudlin sentimentality.
For example, this quote: "Do you really FEEL that from the GOD of the Bible? WHAT verses do you read that make you BELIEVE that it isn't going to be HARD ENOUGH to sentence them to DEATH."
It is obvious that the poster has no business being a judge. Hope he isn't one. He'd be like the far left DA's who are letting out all the violent criminals to just keep preying on innocent citizens. Their motivation is "equity" or "anti-racism".
The poster's motivation seems to be just a bunch of emotional sentimentality. He just can't bear to know that a soul will "be tormented day and night for ever and ever".
Why he just can't understand that God has made EVERY opportunity for everyone to come to faith and avoid the LOF, so that those who will be cast into the LOF have NO EXCUSE.
Yet, he emotes over those who rejected God's very gracious offer. They don't deserve his emotions. And it won't matter anyway.
They WILL have an eternity to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
These words aren't figures of speech. They are PLAIN SPEECH, and communicate God's perfect JUSTICE on those who have rejected His grace and mercy.
Apparently these people (annihilationists) haven't read through Revelation and read about all the WRATH that God will pour out on the earth, resulting in killing aprox half of the world's population. All this is part of His JUSTICE.
But, rather, they just deny what has been clearly written.
They just can't accept that God will keep His promise of an eternity in the LOF.
The reason they can't accept this is clearly seen in the cited post. The poster even thought that it would be "hard enough" (I kid you not) for God to sentence someone to death!!!!! As if God has a huge dose of maudlin sentimentality.
For example, this quote: "Do you really FEEL that from the GOD of the Bible? WHAT verses do you read that make you BELIEVE that it isn't going to be HARD ENOUGH to sentence them to DEATH."
It is obvious that the poster has no business being a judge. Hope he isn't one. He'd be like the far left DA's who are letting out all the violent criminals to just keep preying on innocent citizens. Their motivation is "equity" or "anti-racism".
The poster's motivation seems to be just a bunch of emotional sentimentality. He just can't bear to know that a soul will "be tormented day and night for ever and ever".
Why he just can't understand that God has made EVERY opportunity for everyone to come to faith and avoid the LOF, so that those who will be cast into the LOF have NO EXCUSE.
Yet, he emotes over those who rejected God's very gracious offer. They don't deserve his emotions. And it won't matter anyway.
They WILL have an eternity to be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
These words aren't figures of speech. They are PLAIN SPEECH, and communicate God's perfect JUSTICE on those who have rejected His grace and mercy.
Apparently these people (annihilationists) haven't read through Revelation and read about all the WRATH that God will pour out on the earth, resulting in killing aprox half of the world's population. All this is part of His JUSTICE.
But, rather, they just deny what has been clearly written.
I see you are banned.
But yes, Bible study is needed, as Scripture explicitly states that God alone is immortal.
God's plan of salvation by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ for the remission of sins is plainly laid out also. Being reconciled to God in this way is the means by which life ever after is attained. Hopefully you will come to understand this through Bible study, and stop claiming the soul of man is eternal/immortal. Man is mortal. This too is plainly stated in Scripture a number of times.
Apparently not. Bye bye.
But yes, Bible study is needed, as Scripture explicitly states that God alone is immortal.
God's plan of salvation by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Christ for the remission of sins is plainly laid out also. Being reconciled to God in this way is the means by which life ever after is attained. Hopefully you will come to understand this through Bible study, and stop claiming the soul of man is eternal/immortal. Man is mortal. This too is plainly stated in Scripture a number of times.
Apparently not. Bye bye.
They aren’t continued to be punished after the punishment has been given. What you’re describing is tantamount to literally beating a dead horse. The punishment is death and they’ll be dead eternally; hence “eternal punishment.”
We also established that literal fire isn’t a threat to an immaterial soul. So they wouldn’t be in eternal conscious torment anyway. Hence why what you’re saying isn’t Biblical to begin with. So back to square one with you.
I suggest you just stick with what the Bible says to avoid all of the inconsistencies, pitfalls, and contradictions your doctrine creates.
Let’s (try to) make this simple:
It can be proven the unsaved die eternally.
It cannot be proven the unsaved have eternal conscious torment.
That means eternal punishment is death.
We also established that literal fire isn’t a threat to an immaterial soul. So they wouldn’t be in eternal conscious torment anyway. Hence why what you’re saying isn’t Biblical to begin with. So back to square one with you.
I suggest you just stick with what the Bible says to avoid all of the inconsistencies, pitfalls, and contradictions your doctrine creates.
Let’s (try to) make this simple:
It can be proven the unsaved die eternally.
It cannot be proven the unsaved have eternal conscious torment.
That means eternal punishment is death.