Former pentecostal
- Thread starter JonathanBentley
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Just my two bob's worth if I may. Being autistic I tend to deal with reality, not speculation. One of my biggest occupations is reading. I must read 50 books a year, mostly Christian with a few novels thrown in. Whilst I love to study theology having been to Bible
College, My main interest is books that tell the real story of when the rubber hits the road, meaning people who have experienced a miracle in their lives.
When I read that people believe God has divested himself of power, I have to laugh for the simple reason all over the world God is making himself evident by his supernatural power in healing and deliverance.
A couple of years ago I started reading books about the supernatural way God was reaching out to Muslims and showing them that he was the one true God and as a result, they embraced him and ditched Allah. Bearing in mind to do that often meant death so one does not countenance a move like that if it is fake.
And then there was my own experience in praying for a young man who had an acquired brain injury and his parents were told he would never walk again. Three weeks after I and two others laid hands on him and prayed for his healing, he walked out of the hospital well.
Not to mention a mother in Africa who brought her dead son to two Christian nurses in a primitive hospital who were not given to praying for dead babies. The mother said I have been to the witch doctor but he can do nothing for my son. If your God can bring him back to life I will follow him all my life. The two nurses in simple faith laid hands on the dead baby, prayed and he came back to life.
If God has given away his power and these things do not happen anymore, can anyone advise me where the source of all these miracles is?
College, My main interest is books that tell the real story of when the rubber hits the road, meaning people who have experienced a miracle in their lives.
When I read that people believe God has divested himself of power, I have to laugh for the simple reason all over the world God is making himself evident by his supernatural power in healing and deliverance.
A couple of years ago I started reading books about the supernatural way God was reaching out to Muslims and showing them that he was the one true God and as a result, they embraced him and ditched Allah. Bearing in mind to do that often meant death so one does not countenance a move like that if it is fake.
And then there was my own experience in praying for a young man who had an acquired brain injury and his parents were told he would never walk again. Three weeks after I and two others laid hands on him and prayed for his healing, he walked out of the hospital well.
Not to mention a mother in Africa who brought her dead son to two Christian nurses in a primitive hospital who were not given to praying for dead babies. The mother said I have been to the witch doctor but he can do nothing for my son. If your God can bring him back to life I will follow him all my life. The two nurses in simple faith laid hands on the dead baby, prayed and he came back to life.
If God has given away his power and these things do not happen anymore, can anyone advise me where the source of all these miracles is?
-
2
- Show all
I'm not saying people can't be healed. The Bible is perfect. Now we know how to pray. The elders lay hands on people. There are also miracles through the bible's teachings. It's not over it's just not needed to get messages anymore. Or pray in tongues. We have the Bible. Now we know fully.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
I simply replied to your post which you volunteered. If you wanted to discuss scripture, you would have done so, but all you have is opinion. My post was to the OP for his info and encouragement, but since you replied to me with hostility, you want me to just lay down to you like a doormat?
But your assumption that modern tongues is of God and is Biblical is questionable. There is something wrong with the picture, since there is a marked difference between the two, and I'm merely pointing out what that difference is. If that gets your goat, then perhaps your belief in that practice is not as strong as you think.
But your assumption that modern tongues is of God and is Biblical is questionable. There is something wrong with the picture, since there is a marked difference between the two, and I'm merely pointing out what that difference is. If that gets your goat, then perhaps your belief in that practice is not as strong as you think.
In my experience and observation, modern tongues is gibberish, not language. Experts have evaluated it, saying that it does not have enough structure and vocabulary to convey any message. Therefore, the only mystery being spoken is the one where you really don't know what you're doing. When the Bible says that mysteries are being spoken, it's talking about real language that does convey meaning, albeit meaning that those hearing don't understand, because they don't understand the language. This is the context of 1 Cor. 14. The idea that "only God can understand" what is spoken is a mere excuse, since Paul exhorted them to understand with their minds.
Many people have posted speaking modern tongues on youtube, which I do appreciate their efforts to reveal what is typically done. But I challenge you to show me even one that is a real language and conveys real meaning. I hope someone does prove me wrong, because among all the millions of people speaking in tongues, I'd like for at least a few to have the authentic gift. However, despite my open challenge to many Pentecostals, not one has provided such. It only strengthens my suspicion that not one person who speaks modern tongues has an authentic gift of the Holy Spirit.
Many people have posted speaking modern tongues on youtube, which I do appreciate their efforts to reveal what is typically done. But I challenge you to show me even one that is a real language and conveys real meaning. I hope someone does prove me wrong, because among all the millions of people speaking in tongues, I'd like for at least a few to have the authentic gift. However, despite my open challenge to many Pentecostals, not one has provided such. It only strengthens my suspicion that not one person who speaks modern tongues has an authentic gift of the Holy Spirit.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Speaking in tongues will cease when we are perfect in our resurrected state.
Phil 3:
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfect; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me
When we are resurrected in a perfect body that can endure the Glory of seeing God face to face we will no longer know in part but in full.
Paul could not have been intending the completion of the book of Revelation as that which is perfect is come because Paul was talking about something he had in mind not something he had no knowledge was even going to happen.
Paul was referring to something he had already talked about. That which is perfect is come in Pauls mind was he would be resurrected. He said so in Phil 3 when he said ...
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfect
but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me
Now when Paul said "that which is perfect is come" when we see him face to face and know as we are known, we can know he meant resurrection status because we know that is something he had in mind according to Phil 3.
There is not a shred of evidence that Paul had in mind the completion of the NT or that he was aware that he was writing a NT.
Phil 3:
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfect; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me
When we are resurrected in a perfect body that can endure the Glory of seeing God face to face we will no longer know in part but in full.
Paul could not have been intending the completion of the book of Revelation as that which is perfect is come because Paul was talking about something he had in mind not something he had no knowledge was even going to happen.
Paul was referring to something he had already talked about. That which is perfect is come in Pauls mind was he would be resurrected. He said so in Phil 3 when he said ...
if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
12Not that I have already attained, or am already perfect
but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me
Now when Paul said "that which is perfect is come" when we see him face to face and know as we are known, we can know he meant resurrection status because we know that is something he had in mind according to Phil 3.
There is not a shred of evidence that Paul had in mind the completion of the NT or that he was aware that he was writing a NT.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
you will never see me debating that there is not an issue here with several speaking in Tongues being just pure fiction. when i hear something that resembles tie my bow tie like a ribbon on a blow fly, that person is playing with fire and making a complete mockery.
i was dating a woman, who when i thought was alone, prayed part of my secret prayers Speaking in Tongues (i still do it today and will always do it). her friend was a linguist and they devised a plan to record me praying. evidently, she had heard me before and then during her visit with her friend brought it up and they planned this. they had recorded me 3 times. according to her friend, one had similar dialect to mandarin, one was similar to french, and the other was close to italiano. she was not able to make out concise wording but she also claimed it could not be fake and hitting these specific dialects.
i absolutely knew and believed within myself i was never faking it. and after talking to her myself, she doesn't believe i could be faking it and be so close to 3 specific Languages. i have always noticed when i Speak it Tongues it never has sounded the same as it did the last time i did it. even if i do it 10 times a day, each time has always sounded different to me. i don't know how to explain it. but i am thankful to have her opinion towards it.
i was dating a woman, who when i thought was alone, prayed part of my secret prayers Speaking in Tongues (i still do it today and will always do it). her friend was a linguist and they devised a plan to record me praying. evidently, she had heard me before and then during her visit with her friend brought it up and they planned this. they had recorded me 3 times. according to her friend, one had similar dialect to mandarin, one was similar to french, and the other was close to italiano. she was not able to make out concise wording but she also claimed it could not be fake and hitting these specific dialects.
i absolutely knew and believed within myself i was never faking it. and after talking to her myself, she doesn't believe i could be faking it and be so close to 3 specific Languages. i have always noticed when i Speak it Tongues it never has sounded the same as it did the last time i did it. even if i do it 10 times a day, each time has always sounded different to me. i don't know how to explain it. but i am thankful to have her opinion towards it.
-
1
- Show all
1 Corinthians 13, Paul, tells us Speaking in Tongues is a Mystery only God understands.
don't we have problems today that 2,000 years ago they would have never faced? of course we do! no one knows why it is a mystery only that God gives the utterance and then hears the Mystery.
the Word of God tells us the Holy Spirit searches God like we are also searched.
10 But God revealed these things to us through the Ruach. For the Ruach searches all things—even the depths of God.
if the Holy Spirit searches us, according to the problems and issues we face TODAY + searches the very depths of God = gives us the Utterance to Speak the Mystery for God to understand.
there are things we need that we are not aware that we need. but the Holy Spirit knows we need it. the Holy Spirit will allow us to Speak the Mystery to God who Supplies what we need.
we are on a ONE ON ONE basis with God!
there is not one size fix for every Believer because none of us are dealing with the same problems, same issues. we have the SAME Enemy, but are attacked differently based upon each individual.
i am mentally strong. some are not mentally strong. Satan doesn't attack my mind like he will those who are mentally weaker. and God deals with us and Supplies our Needs according to us individually.
the Bible is a ROAD MAP!
it does not deal with the mysteries that the Holy Spirit connects between God and individual Believer. it just tells us why it is Mystery. this is why it is real and active until Jesus returns!
don't we have problems today that 2,000 years ago they would have never faced? of course we do! no one knows why it is a mystery only that God gives the utterance and then hears the Mystery.
the Word of God tells us the Holy Spirit searches God like we are also searched.
10 But God revealed these things to us through the Ruach. For the Ruach searches all things—even the depths of God.
if the Holy Spirit searches us, according to the problems and issues we face TODAY + searches the very depths of God = gives us the Utterance to Speak the Mystery for God to understand.
there are things we need that we are not aware that we need. but the Holy Spirit knows we need it. the Holy Spirit will allow us to Speak the Mystery to God who Supplies what we need.
we are on a ONE ON ONE basis with God!
there is not one size fix for every Believer because none of us are dealing with the same problems, same issues. we have the SAME Enemy, but are attacked differently based upon each individual.
i am mentally strong. some are not mentally strong. Satan doesn't attack my mind like he will those who are mentally weaker. and God deals with us and Supplies our Needs according to us individually.
the Bible is a ROAD MAP!
it does not deal with the mysteries that the Holy Spirit connects between God and individual Believer. it just tells us why it is Mystery. this is why it is real and active until Jesus returns!
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Paul did not understand with his mind when he prayed in tongues but his spirit was edified ... those of us who have the experience of the gift understand this.
... why ask folks who have never experienced it? or else go by what the scripture says. People are judging by what their eyes see and their ears hear. Not good.
... why ask folks who have never experienced it? or else go by what the scripture says. People are judging by what their eyes see and their ears hear. Not good.
-
2
-
1
-
1
- Show all
you put your finger on the crux of the problem. Putting faith ahead of grace. First we wait to receive the grace, when we receive the grace we step out in faith. These things cain't be taught.
This same problem is the cause of 98% of all the excesses we see.
.... waiting on God is the hardest discipline to learn.
This same problem is the cause of 98% of all the excesses we see.
.... waiting on God is the hardest discipline to learn.
-
1
-
1
- Show all