My.... this is not a discussion, it's clearly an argument.
BTW, God's presence is all around us. He & the angels can "view" us while we go about our business.
Just because they can view Hell doesn't mean Hell has to be nearby.
His way are past finding out.
Please stop this arguing nonsense before the mods give warning or shut the Op down.
How do we do that? We have asked, and we have pointed out the provoking behavior and asked for it to stop, tried to rebuke using Scripture all to no avail. So do we just let those who apparently love the strife they cause to continue to teach false doctrine or do we take the persecution we are promised to receive and put forth TRUTH of what is written?
If we don't take the persecution that the 'fruits of the flesh' put forth then all anyone can find when seeking is the traditions of man, false doctrines from false teachers. I am just going to let 'the discerning' come to their own conclusion about who the Spirit is working through and who clearly it is not because we who know know 'by their fruits you will know them'.
The only thing evil needs to succeed is for the good to do nothing. That is the whole point of the aggression. But don't feel bad Paul would spend months doing this very thing
Acts 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Acts 19:9 But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.
Acts 19:10 And this continued by the space of two years; so that all they which dwelt in Asia heard the word of the Lord Jesus, both Jews and Greeks.
But you are right about getting the thread shut down as that would be the intension of some, another reason for us to crucify the flesh and let the spirit lead. Could you imagine if both sides were all about the lust of the flesh and the lashing out?
No, God is way more important and I truly believe in Hebrews 4:12 and by every word we utter and mostly that judgment will start with those who teach and will be hardest on them. I can't even imagine having the 'eternal torment' as my judgment standard, praise GOD. As for me, the more I fight for mercy for the 'sottish' the better I feel.
Remember, IF I AM WRONG, My Lord and Saviors judgment of me
will be FULL OF MERCY, but if they are wrong, the JUDGEMENT rendered
will be with NO MERCY at all.
I
Hebrews 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
Hebrews 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
Hebrews 10:21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
Hebrews 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
Hebrews 10:24
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
THIS IS WHAT I AM DOING, AS I BELIEVE RM and Mage are doing also.
Hebrews 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hebrews 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hebrews 10:30 For we know him that hath said,
Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
1557. ekdikésis
Strong's Concordance
ekdikésis: vengeance, vindication
Original Word: ἐκδίκησις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: ekdikésis
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-dik'-ay-sis)
Definition: vengeance, vindication
Usage: (a) a defense, avenging, vindication, vengeance, (b) full (complete) punishment.
HELPS Word-studies
1557 ekdíkēsis (a feminine noun derived from 1537 /ek, "out from and to" and 1349 /díkē, "justice, judge") – properly,
judgment which fully executes the core-values (standards) of the particular judge, i.e. extending from the inner-person of the judge to its out-come (outcome).
THE CORE VALUES OF THE PARTICULAR JUDGE - A COMPLETE PUNISHMENT. Does that sound anything like 'eternal torture', torture without end for ever and ever? PUNISHMENT THAT IS NEVER COMPLETED?
DOES THAT SOUND LIKE GOD who uses everything He does as a way of CORRECTION?
467. antapodidómi
Strong's Concordance
antapodidómi:
to give back as an equivalent, recompense
Original Word: ἀνταποδίδωμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: antapodidómi
Phonetic Spelling: (an-tap-od-ee'-do-mee)
Definition: to give back as an equivalent, recompense
Usage: I give in return, recompense.
HELPS Word-studies
467 antapodídōmi (from 473 /antí, "corresponding back" and 591 /apodídōmi, "give") – properly, "pay-back," recompense;
return, as an equivalence, i.e. what is equitable (proportional, "fitting").
DOES ETERNAL TORMENT IN ANY WAY SEEM 'EQUITABLE' ? I cant wrap my head around such a thought. In all these posts not for a moment have I ever believed it was possible. I personally believe that it will be HARD for the Lord to judge those to the 2nd death but it will be JUST.
How can GOD recompense ETERNAL TORMENT for the sins committed in a day?
Surely some will say 'that is just for HIS PEOPLE' but they forget
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold,
all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Hebrews 10:31
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Hebrews 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Hebrews 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Hebrews 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Hebrews 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hebrews 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Ezekiel 18:3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
Ezekiel 18:6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
Ezekiel 18:7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
Ezekiel 18:8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
Ezekiel 18:9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things,
Ezekiel 18:11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife,
Ezekiel 18:12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination,
Ezekiel 18:13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.
