And the SMOKE of their torment...No eternal damnation for anyone, except the Devil
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Your comment following the quote of Matt 25:46 is just an opinion. What's the point of a fire being "everlasting" if everything thrown into it is totally consumed, leaving nothing left? That is irrational.
God is not irrational. His eternal fire is for eternal punishment. Punishment, BY DEFINITION, is experienced.
But your maudlin sentiments just won't let you accept the truth.
God is not irrational. His eternal fire is for eternal punishment. Punishment, BY DEFINITION, is experienced.
But your maudlin sentiments just won't let you accept the truth.
FreeGrace2 said:
OK, let's test your opinion. If you were guilty of a crime and the punishment was painful electric shocks (non-lethal but VERY painful) for 5 hours, and you had the choice of being placed in a medicated coma for those 5 hours or not, what would you choose?
So, you DON'T want to answer my question. Why not? Why do you instead try to change the subject?
My question parallels your theory of punishment. You think punishment can be inflicted on someone who no longer exists.
To your answer, as I'm never one to avoid questions, I would be nothing, I wouldn't exist. So, what is your point?
I gave you a scenario to show that ANYONE would choose to NOT experience painful punishment. Your theory plays right into the hand of atheists.
OK, let's test your opinion. If you were guilty of a crime and the punishment was painful electric shocks (non-lethal but VERY painful) for 5 hours, and you had the choice of being placed in a medicated coma for those 5 hours or not, what would you choose?
So, you DON'T want to answer my question. Why not? Why do you instead try to change the subject?
My question parallels your theory of punishment. You think punishment can be inflicted on someone who no longer exists.
To your answer, as I'm never one to avoid questions, I would be nothing, I wouldn't exist. So, what is your point?
I gave you a scenario to show that ANYONE would choose to NOT experience painful punishment. Your theory plays right into the hand of atheists.
FreeGrace2 said:
Where the punishment will be conscious and eternal, the shame and contempt will be eternal.
Why are your questions so DENSE?
Dan 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
This is in black and white. "everlasting contempt". If you can't figure out what that means, you just don't want to.
Focus on the verse that SAYS eternal contempt and shame.
Pathetic. you know better than to compare me with the pretrib theory. However, you are just a serial LIAR when you keep claiming there are no words written to support ECT. You've seen them repeatedly and yet you say these LIES.
The assumption is all on you. YOU assume that the soul ceases to exist. The Bible does NOT say that.
Wrong. Your body WILL die. But NOT "cease to exist". In fact, believers will be reunited with their physical bodies, but changed to be immortal, imperishable, just like the Lord Jesus' body.
For unbelievers, their bodies will be resurrected, only to DIE again. That body will cease to exist. But you have zero evidence that the soul will cease to exist. And the verses that speak of eternal punishment, shame and contempt REFUTE your opinions.
And the unbeliever's body WILL die again. So what? Where does your claim show that the soul will cease to exist?
Where the punishment will be conscious and eternal, the shame and contempt will be eternal.
Why are your questions so DENSE?
Dan 12:2 - Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
This is in black and white. "everlasting contempt". If you can't figure out what that means, you just don't want to.
Focus on the verse that SAYS eternal contempt and shame.
Pathetic. you know better than to compare me with the pretrib theory. However, you are just a serial LIAR when you keep claiming there are no words written to support ECT. You've seen them repeatedly and yet you say these LIES.
The assumption is all on you. YOU assume that the soul ceases to exist. The Bible does NOT say that.
Wrong. Your body WILL die. But NOT "cease to exist". In fact, believers will be reunited with their physical bodies, but changed to be immortal, imperishable, just like the Lord Jesus' body.
For unbelievers, their bodies will be resurrected, only to DIE again. That body will cease to exist. But you have zero evidence that the soul will cease to exist. And the verses that speak of eternal punishment, shame and contempt REFUTE your opinions.
And the unbeliever's body WILL die again. So what? Where does your claim show that the soul will cease to exist?
No three persons get eternal torment if it’s literal and it probably isn’t.
Punishment is a singular noun, meaning it refers to a single thing. Hell has fire and worms that consume people which is two different kinds of punishment so that’s plural punishments. Jesus said there is only one eternal punishment.
The eternal punishment is one thing. The Bible is unanimous on this subject: it’s death. The wages of sin is death, there’s the second death, those who don’t believe in Christ perish, God can save or destroy.
It’s crystal clear. This is probably one of the most clearest subjects in the Bible due to the overwhelming proof from Genesis to Revelation that the fate of the wicked is death.
Punishment is a singular noun, meaning it refers to a single thing. Hell has fire and worms that consume people which is two different kinds of punishment so that’s plural punishments. Jesus said there is only one eternal punishment.
The eternal punishment is one thing. The Bible is unanimous on this subject: it’s death. The wages of sin is death, there’s the second death, those who don’t believe in Christ perish, God can save or destroy.
It’s crystal clear. This is probably one of the most clearest subjects in the Bible due to the overwhelming proof from Genesis to Revelation that the fate of the wicked is death.
FreeGrace2 said:
This refers to the believers who are the ONLY ONES who will live in the new age on the NH & NE. Has nothing to do with unbelievers.
The point is that by Rev 21, all unbelievers have ALREADY been separated from believers, since they have been thrown into the LOF.
None of any of these verses support your opinion about souls ceasing to exist.
Right. The LOF isn't on the NE. What is your point?
lol. Your theory has never been proven from Scripture. The opposite is true. Punishment is eternal. That proves that unbelievers will be conscious and experience that punishment.
That's just your maudlin sentimentality talking again.
You are guilty of transference here. You are transferring your sobby maudlin sentiments onto God, as if He is as maudlin as you are.
That is your whole problem. YOU think "it isn't right". So you are blind to the truth. Satan blinds people.
You can't accept what the Bible says, so you accept what appeals to YOU. Real clear.
This refers to the believers who are the ONLY ONES who will live in the new age on the NH & NE. Has nothing to do with unbelievers.
The point is that by Rev 21, all unbelievers have ALREADY been separated from believers, since they have been thrown into the LOF.
None of any of these verses support your opinion about souls ceasing to exist.
Right. The LOF isn't on the NE. What is your point?
lol. Your theory has never been proven from Scripture. The opposite is true. Punishment is eternal. That proves that unbelievers will be conscious and experience that punishment.
That's just your maudlin sentimentality talking again.
You are guilty of transference here. You are transferring your sobby maudlin sentiments onto God, as if He is as maudlin as you are.
That is your whole problem. YOU think "it isn't right". So you are blind to the truth. Satan blinds people.
You can't accept what the Bible says, so you accept what appeals to YOU. Real clear.
Jackson123 said:
So what 3 people get, eternal punishment?
Are you forgetting what Jesus said in Matt 25:41? Obviously you are.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Do you think God gives the fallen angels a break here? Nope. ALL the fallen angels accompany Satan to the LOF.
So what 3 people get, eternal punishment?
Are you forgetting what Jesus said in Matt 25:41? Obviously you are.
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Do you think God gives the fallen angels a break here? Nope. ALL the fallen angels accompany Satan to the LOF.
Jackson123 said:
So what 3 people get, eternal punishment?
Well, that's one way to explain it away.
Punishment is a judgment. It can easily and obviously include more than one thing.
But you are just trying to find excuses to not believe what the Bible says. Your maudlin sentiments get the better of you.
It is THE thing.
It's MORE than death. It's shame and contempt. The BIBLE says that. You reject that.
No one argues this. Of course the fate is death. But the death is the resurrected body. That is what dies.
But your maudlin sentiments keep getting in the way of sensible and rational thought. God punishes the body with fire, and the soul with shame and contempt, forever and ever.
So what 3 people get, eternal punishment?
Well, that's one way to explain it away.
Punishment is a judgment. It can easily and obviously include more than one thing.
But you are just trying to find excuses to not believe what the Bible says. Your maudlin sentiments get the better of you.
It is THE thing.
It's MORE than death. It's shame and contempt. The BIBLE says that. You reject that.
No one argues this. Of course the fate is death. But the death is the resurrected body. That is what dies.
But your maudlin sentiments keep getting in the way of sensible and rational thought. God punishes the body with fire, and the soul with shame and contempt, forever and ever.
Very good question! Thanks.
Dan 12:2 shows what the unbeliever will be in for: eternal shame and contempt. These are mental experiences, not body experiences. Their resurrected bodies (Acts 24:15) will die again, hence the LOF is called the "second death".
So, what's left is the soul and its mental thoughts. The "gnashing teeth" is obviously figurative, so we can understand the emotional and mental suffering that leads us to gnash our teeth.
Dan 12:2 shows what the unbeliever will be in for: eternal shame and contempt. These are mental experiences, not body experiences. Their resurrected bodies (Acts 24:15) will die again, hence the LOF is called the "second death".
So, what's left is the soul and its mental thoughts. The "gnashing teeth" is obviously figurative, so we can understand the emotional and mental suffering that leads us to gnash our teeth.
A logical conclusion although there is no way of proving it other than going to the lake of fire to test its validity. And nobody in their right mind would volunteer for such an experiment, nor be able to return from it whatever Weiss might claim. However, we do have evidence to go by in the word of God of how the lake of fire functions.
...But rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body (how) in Hell." Matthew 10:28
Nowhere in scripture is there any claim of any immortal soul, except of those that put on immortal life (how) in Christ.
...But rather fear Him that is able to destroy both soul and body (how) in Hell." Matthew 10:28
Nowhere in scripture is there any claim of any immortal soul, except of those that put on immortal life (how) in Christ.
If an atheist's only consolation of the afterlife is that he ceases to exist, what sort of life does he actually possess? Very dismal outlook and of little comfort, I would say.
On the other hand, perhaps this is the closest to God's mercy in His abundant grace that such can get.
But wait! There's certainly more! Death is conquered in Christ, and there IS eternal life offered to whosoever will believe!
On the other hand, perhaps this is the closest to God's mercy in His abundant grace that such can get.
But wait! There's certainly more! Death is conquered in Christ, and there IS eternal life offered to whosoever will believe!
Am I forgetting what Jesus said?
Not at all.
What I meant was that - according to the way annihilationsts are presenting their belief,
"it isn't even 3 people because one of them is Satan." I was highlighting the absurdity of it.
See Below
I've been arguing against annhilation for this whole thread. Go back & look at my posts. I haven't suddenly done 180° turn
Not at all.
What I meant was that - according to the way annihilationsts are presenting their belief,
"it isn't even 3 people because one of them is Satan." I was highlighting the absurdity of it.
See Below
I've been arguing against annhilation for this whole thread. Go back & look at my posts. I haven't suddenly done 180° turn