Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[brightfame52]

There is no such statement in scripture, rather the scripture says not for our sins only but for the sins of the world.

What God is offering now is LIFE to all who come to Him, but no-one can come to Him unless He first draws them.

It must be so, God could not pour out His Holy Spirit upon all flesh unless sin was atoned for. He would have to instantly slay the sinner.

I am not denying election but election is not achieved by limiting the atonement.

Again, the atonement is limited to the elect, jew and gentile.

 

[Evmur]

Again, the atonement is limited to the elect, jew and gentile.

again ... supposition is no substitute for scripture

 

[brightfame52]

again ... supposition is no substitute for scripture

Thats all scripture teaches is limited atonement.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Thats all scripture teaches is limited atonement.

You mean, like these verses?

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

2 Cor 5-

14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Tim 2-

3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,

4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

So, "all" means "only some". Got it.

 

[brightfame52]

You mean, like these verses?

John 1:29 - The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 4:42 - They said to the woman, “We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world.”

2 Cor 5-

14 For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died.

15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

1 Tim 2-

3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,

4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.

5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

1 Tim 4:10 - That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 2:2 - He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 4:14 - And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

So, "all" means "only some". Got it.

Yes, exactly, they all teach limited atonement.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, exactly, they all teach limited atonement.

OK, laugh over. Now actually read them.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

1 Cor 15:17

And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

According to just about every post you have submitted in this thread (and other threads as well), faith on the part of the believer isn't even needed if one is "elect". So it appears you consider faith to be vain whether Christ rose from the dead or not.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Since you hijack faith and make is a human requirement for the natural man

The one who has "hijack faith" is the one who claims there are various types of faith even though Scripture makes clear there is only one faith:

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism

you default to the law, the natural man is legally married tp the law in Adam.

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


Your erroneous claim that I am "obligated to do the whole law" is nothing but your rejection of the truth of Scripture. Your rejection of Scripture only affects you.
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[reneweddaybyday]

You bought up human faith, you said all men have been given it, then you quote Rom 12:3

nope. you're the one who first "brought up "human faith" in Post #1715. That term ("human faith") is a figment of your imagination.

I, on the other hand, have maintained that there is no such thing as "human faith" as, according to Scripture there is only one faith ...

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism


... one faith with which mankind believes the truth of Scripture.

When a person mis-utilizes that which God has provided to all mankind in order to believe Truth, that person believes the lies of satan with the same faith the true believer believes the Truth laid out in Scripture.
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[reneweddaybyday]

Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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[reneweddaybyday]

you make it a law, a work.

Nope. I have shown you over and over in this thread alone that faith is not works

Romans 4:

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


The one who makes faith "a law, a work" is the one who states over and over that I am "obligated to do the whole law" ... and it is brightfame52 who continues to throw that lie at me.
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[reneweddaybyday]

the regenerated born again man or woman who believes in Jesus Christ

You, again, have the cart before the horse

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

After you heard, you believed.

After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated / born again)


According to Ephesians 1:13:

After you heard, you believed.

After you believed, you were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (regenerated / born again).


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

You make Faith a human requirement to get Justified

nope ... I read Scripture just as the Author wrote it:

Scripture clearly states we are justified by faith:

Romans 4:

24 But for us also, to whom it [righteousness] shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

You, on the other hand make up stuff such as "human faith" ... all to prop up an erroneous dogma which cannot withstand the slightest scrutiny from the light of Scripture.

you promote law keeping, human faith is required by the Law

the only one on this thread promoting "law keeping" is the one who insists faith is "a law, a work" and who states over and over that I am "obligated to do the whole law" ... and that would be brightfame52.

Matt 23:23

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Eph 1:7

7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Read Ephesians 1:1 to see to whom the letter was written:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus

The faithful in Christ Jesus have already believed
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[reneweddaybyday]

You cant answer a simple question, because you dont know what it was.

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Just because you do not like the answer I gave, that does not mean I did not answer.

The verse clearly states Abraham believed God:

3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God


When Abraham believed God, God imputed righteousness to Abraham.
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[FreeGrace2]

According to just about every post you have submitted in this thread (and other threads as well), faith on the part of the believer isn't even needed if one is "elect". So it appears you consider faith to be vain whether Christ rose from the dead or not.
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Generally, Calvinists sincerely believe that one's faith is a by-product of being elect. But they can't support that idea from the Bible.

iow, if God chose someone to be saved (unconditionally), He would regenerate them so that they COULD believe.

Of of this is totally unbiblical, of course.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

Jesus Christ died only for the elect, the seed of Abraham Heb 2:16

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

oh brother!!! You seriously believe the words "He took on Him the seed of Abraham" means the Lord Jesus Christ "died only for the elect"??? You completely miss the point of Hebrews 2 due to your inability to rightly divide the Word of God (2 Tim 2:15).

Hebrews 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

The Lord Jesus Christ came to redeem all mankind (all descendants of Adam) which is why He did not take on Him the nature of angels. We see the same truth set forth in Philippians 2:

Philippians 2:

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men


If you weren't so focused on forcing Scripture to align with your erroneous dogma, you would comprehend the wonderful truth the Author of Scripture laid out in both Hebrews 2 and Philippians 2.

Hebrews 2:

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

No Christ doesnt knock on the door of anyones heart. Acts 7:51 doesnt teach that either.

intentionally obtuse.

again, I will spell out the discussion for you, brightfame52. please pay attention.

The_Watchers_2017 brought up the fact that God knocks on the heart of natural man.

You then brought up Acts 7:51 ... so it was you who attempted to tie Acts 7:51 to the statement.

However, Acts 7:51 does not support your claim that "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart".

Let's again read Acts 7:51:

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

If, as you claim, "God doesn’t knock on the door of the wicked, deceitful natural human heart" then there would be nothing for these men to resist.

However, Scripture is clear that they resist the Holy Ghost so your claim I wholly inaccurate.


READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
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[reneweddaybyday]

People remain unchanged when Christ hasnt died for them.

Scripture is clear that the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind ... all descendants of Adam.

Scripture is clear that even though the Lord Jesus Christ died for all mankind, some resist the Holy Ghost as shown in Acts 7:51.

We also read in Romans 1 about those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness:

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold [Greek katechō] the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse


In vs 18, the words "who hold" are translated from the Greek word katechō which means to suppress, restrain.

In vs 19, we see that God has revealed Himself to those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

In vs 20, we see that those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness are without excuse.
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[reneweddaybyday]

you and I dont even believe in the same Jesus Christ

There is only one Lord Jesus Christ in which to believe.


With each post you submit in this thread, you become more and more foolish.
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