Dispensationalism...

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 16, 2022

"

...“Whereof I am made a minister, according to the Dispensation

of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the Word of God; Even

the Mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations,

but now is made manifest to His saints.”—Colossians 1:25,26...

...Some believe that there are only three administrations, which they divide
accordingly: Father, Son and Holy Spirit...

...the other end of the spectrum, there are those who teach that there are as
many as twelve dispensations....

...we hold the position that there are eight dispensations:

1. Dispensation of Innocence (Gen. 1:27,28).

2. Dispensation of Conscience (Gen. 3:7; Rom. 2:14,15).

3. Dispensation of Human Government (Gen. 9:1-7).

4. Dispensation of Promise (Gen. 12:1-3; 13:14-17).

5. Dispensation of the Law (Ex. 19,20).

6. Dispensation of Grace (Eph. 3:1-6).

7. Dispensation of Divine Government (Psa. 2:1-12; Rev. 11:15-19; Rev. 20).

8. Dispensation of the Fullness of Times (Eph. 1:10; II Peter 3:12,13)...
"
(P Sadler)

FULL study:
Dispensationalism (1)
Dispensationalism (2)

GRACE And Peace...

Ethan1942 · Jul 23, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

When it comes to theological systems, I try to stick closer to the explicit words of God, without trying to read between the lines or adding what I think is implied, in order to build a new theory or system of theology. By "new" I mean in the latter 1800s.

In the KVJ the word "dispensation" is used 4 times: 1 Co 9:17; Eph 1:10, 3:2; Col 1:25. Each of these 4 are in Paul's writings, and in 1 Co. 9:17 it clearly states "a dispensation of the gospel" and the following 3 occurrences refer to the same. The Greek οἰκονομία translated "dispensation" in the KVJ is also used 3 other times in Lk. 16:2,3,4 where it is translated "stewardship".

The 1828 Webster's Dictionary gives 4 definitions for "dispensation" and the 4th is the one that fits the NT usage:

"4. That which is dispensed or bestowed; a system of principles and rites enjoined; as the Mosaic dispensation; the gospel dispensation; including, the former the Levitical law and rites; the latter the scheme of redemption by Christ."

The use of "dispensation" in Paul's writings would appear to indicate a previous dispensation and that seems to be the case meaning law and gospel in the following:

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ." (John 1:17, KJV)

The more recent English translations, the NEB, REB & NRSV do not use the word "dispensation" at all anywhere in their translations. Strictly speaking, the KJV refers to the gospel as a dispensation, not multiple 3, 4, 7, 9 dispensations, etc.

Beckie · Jul 23, 2022

My opinion, having lived dispensationalism for about 40 years .
Dispensationalism and all its off shoots teach a weak Body of Christ. It teaches the Body of Christ is so weak it must be rescued ( rapture) . Christ is the master carpenter His is building His Church (body) Dispy teaches, although they say different , Christ is not doing a good job of building.
The OP speaks of dispensations as did Scofield in his bible . Scofield taught the covenant with Abraham was unconditional . The Scriptures do not teach that to be so.
Gen 17:8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
Gen 17:9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
Gen 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Gen 17:11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
Gen 17:12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Gen 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.
Gen 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

Beckie · Jul 23, 2022

More Scripture showing the conditions of Abrahams covenant.

Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

Gen 26:4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Lev 26:40 If they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
Lev 26:41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity:
Lev 26:42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

timf · Jul 23, 2022

The bible only describes 2 dispensations, the dispensation of grace and the dispensation of the fullness of times. The act of dispensing would be what a steward of a household would do each day. The servants would need clothing food, tools, money to accomplish the carious tasks they had to do. This "dispensing" is what the Greek word oikonomia means.

One could make a case that what Moses did was a "dispensing" of the law. However, since the bible does not call it that, I would be reluctant to do so. Most cite seven or eight "dispensations" because to hijack the word to mean "age" or "era". It is understandable, but it can cause confusion. It is also similar to using the word "covenant" to mean a period of time.

Despite the confusion of using dispensing to describe a period of time, dispensationalism does a fair job of differentiating between the church and Israel. I asked a friend once if the Great Commission was given to Israel or the church. He spent a week coming up with the answer that it was given to those who would become the church. I saw this as an example of what I call a "shoehorn" answer (trying to make something fit).

I do not see a problem taking what Jesus said as to the nation of Israel in the hope that the entire nation would receive the offered kingdom and accept the new covenant. The old covenant required the entire nation to accept it. With the destruction of the temple in 70 AD, we see an end to the kingdom offer to the nation of Israel. What we have now is the individual salvation gospel "dispensed" by Paul.

We all look forward to a remnant of Israel finally accepting the kingdom and Jesus ruling from Jerusalem for 1000 years.

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 23, 2022

timf said:

Precious friend, A Very Warm Welcome To Chat.

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged and Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided!

GRACE And Peace...

DavidTree · Jul 23, 2022

GRACE_ambassador said:

dispense

dĭ-spĕns′
intransitive verb

To give or deal out, especially in parts or portions: synonym: distribute.
To prepare and give out (medicines).
To administer (laws, for example).

ALL GOOD THINGS come down from the FATHER who is ABOVE ALL THINGS both Good and Evil.

Dispensationlism is just another division in christianity that errs from the Truth.

The FATHER dipenses His Grace according to His Will as HE directs for His Glory.

Since HE alone dispenses the Grace, who are we to question and/or alter His Grace???

TMS · Jul 23, 2022

Dispensationalism is used by many to form a doctrine that is not in the Bible.
By creating different times and saying that God used different means to save, it creates whole doctrines that are not biblical.
All are saved by the blood of Christ from Adam to the end of this world.
The bible starts with "obey and live, or disobey and die".
And ends with the same principle.
Thank God for grace which is given to save us from ourselves.

Gen 2: 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: 17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Act 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Adam, Abraham and Moses all needed Gods grace but were all told to obey.

The same principles apply today.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 23, 2022

TMS said:

These statements prove that you have no idea about Dispensationalism. It does NOT create any new doctrines but clarifies the actual existing Bible doctrines.

So why is there such an irrational bias towards Dispensationalism? Because it undercuts all the false teachings of Covenant Theology, Amillennialism, Preterism, and all the other nonsense floating around.

So the fundamental question which needs to be asked is this: "Has God had different ways for dealing with men at different times, and is the New Covenant quite different from the Old Covenant?"

Nehemiah6 · Jul 23, 2022

DavidTree said:

Here another blatantly FALSE statement. Once again proving an IRRATIONAL bias against Dispensationalism.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 23, 2022

Beckie said:

This is hilarious. The doctrine of the Rapture was first presented by Christ Himself. Not because the Body of Christ is weak, but because the Body of Christ is also the Bride of Christ. Therefore the divine Bridegroom comes personally to take His Bride to Heaven.

TMS · Jul 23, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

So i ask...
Did God save people differently at different times in history?

I say no....
All are saved by the same means.

All are saved by the blood of Jesus and without the blood of Jesus no one can be saved.

Some looked forward and some look back but it is the same means of salvation for all.

DavidTree · Jul 23, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

Brother Nehemiah6,
Your words do not please the Lord Jesus Christ.
Have you never read "do not bear false witness"?

First thing you need to do is bring forth your evidence that brings to 'Light' this "blatant FALSE statement" you seek to imply.
Then we can examine it in the 'Light' of the Word of God.

As for DavidTree, i will follow the Path of Righteousness = Psalm 119

"I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
How sweet are Thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path."

Clayman · Jul 24, 2022

TMS said:

I'm not sure how many colours of dispensationalism there may be, but my understanding agrees with you that people are not saved by different means.

But what dispensations does show is how God works differently at different times, for example Israel were expected to follow the law, yet today they are not, dispensationalists simply use these different periods to explain why or why not these things are so, to me we can explain it all without using dispensations but sometimes categories are useful for referencing things to others.

Lanolin · Jul 24, 2022

?

I think its just the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament (or covenant)

Jesus blood sacrifice on the cross has saved all of mankind from sin, we just need to accept it. Whether we were under the covenant (israelites) or outside of it (heathen/gentile)

timf · Jul 24, 2022

The new covenant was intended for Israel;

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Since the nation failed to receive it the first time it was offered, it may be that a faithful remnant will receive it in the future.

Isa 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

God wanted gentiles saved. Israel was supposed to be a nation of priests used for this purpose. The great commission was given to the disciples who were to rule the twelve tribes for the purpose of administering this evangelistic mission. The failure of the nation (what Paul calls "stumbling" in Romans 11) brought the blessing of individual salvation to the gentiles which has continued till now. This might be seen as a plan B.

God is not limited to a single plan. God in his anger about Israel suggested to Moses that he could make a new nation out of him. God told Elijah that he had 7,000 people who had not bent the knee to Baal that he could use if Elijah was lost.

I would feel more comfortable if there were more than two verses suggesting a rapture, however, I don't see a problem with considering it a working hypothesis. I do have a problem looking around at all of what is called Christianity today and saying this represents the epitome of God's plan for the world.

Moses_Young · Jul 24, 2022

Clayman said:

But the question is why (did God deal differently at different times), and the answer to the question is Jesus. In my view, Dispensationalism takes away this crucial explanation. It's not simply about God changing his mind at different periods in history - it's about Jesus fulfilling the law. From why Christians don't need to comply with all the ritual laws, to why we don't need to stone lawbreakers - these are all explained (and fulfilled) by the death and resurrection of Christ.

Ethan1942 · Jul 24, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

The danger of dispensationalism is the habit of reading the symbolic and figurative passages of Scripture as literal, and then reading the plainly literal passages as figurative or symbolic. Often the dispensationalist holds beliefs that are explicitly contradicted by the Scriptures. One clear example is their belief that Israel has not fully possessed all the land promised to her. But, the Scripture says otherwise.

"And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass." (Josh 21:43-45, KJV)

"And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof. Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you. When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you." (Josh 23:14-16, KJV)

"And I will send hornets before thee, which shall drive out the Hivite, the Canaanite, and the Hittite, from before thee. I will not drive them out from before thee in one year; lest the land become desolate, and the beast of the field multiply against thee. By little and little I will drive them out from before thee, until thou be increased, and inherit the land." (Exod 23:28-30, KJV)

A typical dispensationalist will reply that Israel did not act responsibly and did not fully possess all the land given to her and it still awaits fulfillment. Is that waiting 3000+ years??? That reply contradicts the clear statements of Scripture. The first 30 years of my life I held to the KJV 1917 Scofield Study Bible but numerous contradictions as in the above forced me to abandon the dispensationalist teachings. Some of the dispensationalist doctrines border on blasphemy and heresy when compared to the Holy Scriptures, such as bringing back sacrifices in the millennium.

Beckie · Jul 24, 2022

Dispensationalism divides God's Word. Which in turn divides God's people .
Understood not all who follow dispensational teaching view is exactly the same.

Dispensationalism says the first was innocency. That time frame is when God gave His first commandment.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Was Adam innocent as , lets say a baby, or did he have responsibilities? IF a innocent baby eats something it should not the baby is not held responsible nor the the babe run and hide. Could Adam have had a conscience in the dispensation of innocence?

Conscience:
At this time we see Cain murdering his brother. . Rom_5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Was Cain's sin imputed to him?

We are not told people were given laws about how to sacrifice but we do know somehow Abel knew what was acceptable. Was Able following his own conscience ? Could he have been doing what he saw his father doing? Was building an alter offering proper sacrifice Adams idea?

Was not Cain given Grace? We are told Noah was given Grace. Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Did Enoch walk with God by his very own conscience?
Do the Scriptures teach there was no form of human government in this time period?

Nehemiah6 · Jul 24, 2022

Ethan1942 said:

Really? At which point in history did Israel ever occupy the land between the Nile and the Euphrates, as embedded in the Abrahamic Covenant? And at which point did they hold that land eternally? Israel went into exile three times, and the Zionist nation-state of Israel at present occupies a small sliver of the land promised by God. But a time will come when each of the twelve tribes will possess exactly the portion given to them. See Ezekiel 48, which has never been fulfilled.

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