Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[Wansvic]

Gentiles do not have to adhere to Jewish customs such as circumcision of the penis, Jewish holidays, animal sacrifices, water baptism, etc. Jesus came to save the Jews, but when they rejected Him, the door was opened for Gentiles.

All of the things you mention with the exception of water baptism are OT commands that pertain exclusively to the Jewish population. However, water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus is a NT requirement and pertains to all groups of humanity as witnessed in scripture:

Acts 2:38-39 (Jews) The group did not receive the Holy Ghost the moment they believed in Jesus. However, they were told they could expect the Holy Ghost at some point.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:43-48 (Gentiles)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

 

[Wansvic]

In verse 5 "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit", born of water is explained in verse 6 as born of flesh as opposed to born of the Spirit. That means natural birth , not water baptism. In other words a person has to be born twice. One naturally and the other spiritually.

Pointing out that UNLESS a person is born naturally they cannot expect to be born again of the Spirit is not necessary when speaking to someone who has obviously met the first condition.

 

[Wansvic]

I believe that what we disagree on is that you believe that any time you see the word baptism, you think of water baptism. That is why when you commented of Matt 28: 19 you stuck in water baptism. You did that with almost every verse that mentions Baptism. That is why I started my posts showing that when Jesus used the word Baptism, He did not mean water baptism.

Please explain how your understanding/perspective can be correct considering what Peter said in his exchange with the Gentiles.

Acts 10:47-48
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

Peter is explaining that baptism is liken to Noah and his family that were saved from drowning in the flood. Saved, in the Greek interpretation means "delivered", not eternally into heaven, but delivered from the flood.

There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverances that we receive here in this world, baptism being a deliverance from a guilty conscience that we receive as we live here on earth. Baptism is representative of Christ's death, burial, and resseriction.

ohn 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Water, in this scripture does not represent, being spiritually born. The spiritual birth is explained in Eph 2:1-5, and has nothing to do with water.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The word "for" in this scripture means "because of". Baptism does not remit sins. Matt 26:28 -

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

The scriptures do not contradict each other, so which is it? Is our sins remitted on the cross by Jesus's death (Matt 26:28), or is our sins remitted by baptism?(Acts 22:16).

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Saved (delivered) in Mark 16:16, is the same deliverance as in 1 Pet 3:21 .Christ's death on the cross is the only thing that remits sins.

 

[Wansvic]

My point is that it is about the heart. It is easy to be baptised in a river or pool, but the real issue is are you born again spiritually. I find reason in the Bible to be baptised when you have chosen to follow Jesus.

Mat 21:25 The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?

Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Notice what Acts 2:37 conveys.
1. The listeners had to believe Jesus was the messiah as evidenced by His death, burial, resurrection, and shedding forth of the Holy Ghost.
2. Also, when Peter told them what was required in association with Jesus' sacrifice they had to believe it.
3. Their faith in the entire message is witnessed by their obedience to their part which is necessary in order for the NT spiritual rebirth to become a reality.
4. Also, as Peter stated those who believe and obey the entire gospel message are promised they will receive the Holy Ghost. As scripture reveals this occurs as God sees fit. Some became indwelt prior to obedience to water baptism and others afterward. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) The truth of this is also revealed in Luke 11:13. Jesus said the heavenly Father is willing to give the Holy Spirit to those who ask. (Luke 11:13)

 

[Wansvic]

And? Do you still maintain that John's baptism was for the remission of sin when Scripture says otherwise?

As I said, John introduced water baptism for the remission of sin. It was later modified to include the name of Jesus in association with His death, burial and resurrection. Jesus actually expressed this would occur in Luke 24:47. He said repentance and remission of sin would be preached in His name to all nations beginning in Jerusalem. The requirement to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ did begin in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost. Peter later commanded Gentiles to be water baptized in the name of the Lord. And the Samaritans were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus as well.

 

[Wansvic]

The following scripture alone confirms that being baptized in the name of the Lord is done in water.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

@BillG I noticed you disagreed with the referenced post. I am sincere in asking why you would disagree that the following scripture indicates water baptizing is done in the name of the Lord.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

 

[RichMan]

Who has the authority to baptize?

 

[Magenta]

*Awaits X from Peldom

You're so predictable

 

[Magenta]

As I said, John introduced water baptism for the remission of sin.

That's not what Scripture says. I believe what the Bible says over what you say.

John's gospel says something else, also:

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah,
the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

 

[Magenta]

Who has the authority to baptize?

Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit

John 15:3 ►

New International Version
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

New Living Translation
You have already been pruned and purified by the message I have given you.

English Standard Version
Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you.

Berean Study Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Berean Literal Bible
Already you are clean by reason of the word that I have spoken to you.

King James Bible
Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

New King James Version
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

New American Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

NASB 1995
“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

NASB 1977
“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Amplified Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have given you [the teachings which I have discussed with you].

Christian Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you.

American Standard Version
Already ye are clean because of the word which I have spoken unto you.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“From now on you are purged because of the word which I have spoken with you.”

Contemporary English Version
You are already clean because of what I have said to you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you.

Good News Translation
You have been made clean already by the teaching I have given you.

International Standard Version
You are already clean because of what I've spoken to you.

Literal Standard Version
you are already clean, because of the word that I have spoken to you;

New American Bible
You are already pruned because of the word that I spoke to you.

NET Bible
You are clean already because of the word that I have spoken to you.

New Revised Standard Version
You have already been cleansed by the word that I have spoken to you.

New Heart English Bible
You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Weymouth New Testament
Already you are cleansed--through the teaching which I have given you.

World English Bible
You are already pruned clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.

Young's Literal Translation
already ye are clean, because of the word that I have spoken to you;

Titus 3:4-5

 

[BillG]

@BillG I noticed you disagreed with the referenced post. I am sincere in asking why you would disagree that the following scripture indicates water baptizing is done in the name of the Lord.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Acts 10:47-48

Hi @Wansvic

The reason i disagreed with your post is because you a look ways state that one should be baptised in the name of Jesus only in order to be saved.
And that being baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is invalid.

That's why.

 

[Runningman]

Water baptism is from heaven. It’s a commandment from God and the following passage proves it. I admit there will be people who try to dodge this question like the chief priests, scribes, and elders did, but it’s pretty clear what the answer to this question should be.

Mark 11:29-33
29“I will ask you one question,” Jesus replied, “and if you answer Me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
30John’s baptism—was it from heaven or from men? Answer Me!”
31They deliberated among themselves what they should answer: “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will ask, ‘Why then did you not believe him?’
32But if we say, ‘From men’...” they were afraid of the people, for they all held that John truly was a prophet.
33So they answered, “We do not know.”
And Jesus replied, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

Pointing out that UNLESS a person is born naturally they cannot expect to be born again of the Spirit is not necessary when speaking to someone who has obviously met the first condition.

Being born "naturally" is totally irrelevant to spiritual things. It is already a given that all human beings are born "naturally" in childbirth. Christ was not referring to amniotic fluid, but metaphorically to the "water" -- the "clean water" -- of the Word of God. And Peter confirms this by calling the Word of God (the Gospel) the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth. So does James. So does Paul. So does John.

 

[Wansvic]

That's not what Scripture says. I believe what the Bible says over what you say.

John's gospel says something else, also:

But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah,
the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Notice the scripture mentions that those who believe MIGHT have life through His name. This establishes there is an additional condition to receiving life and it comes through His name.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

 

[Wansvic]

Hi @Wansvic

The reason i disagreed with your post is because you a look ways state that one should be baptised in the name of Jesus only in order to be saved.
And that being baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is invalid.

That's why.

Thank you for responding. I was confused because the scripture I shared was in answer to someone saying baptism in the name of Jesus was not water baptism. The scripture confirmed that Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord.

The reason I say that baptism must be done in the name of the Lord Jesus is because that is how the apostles always baptized people in the bible. I'm not sure if you know it, but the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church made people stop using the name of the Lord Jesus and start reciting the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is substantial historical documentation about it.

It is unsettling when considering the there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved. Many would be surprised to know, as I was, that the RCC considers members of different denominations as daughters of the mother church as long as they subscribe to their form of water baptism. One must ask themselves why RCC leaders don't reject any denomination on doctrinal differences accept where baptism is concerned.

 

[Wansvic]

Being born "naturally" is totally irrelevant to spiritual things. It is already a given that all human beings are born "naturally" in childbirth. Christ was not referring to amniotic fluid, but metaphorically to the "water" -- the "clean water" -- of the Word of God. And Peter confirms this by calling the Word of God (the Gospel) the "incorruptible seed" of the New Birth. So does James. So does Paul. So does John.

If one insists that the water in that scripture is a metaphor so to must be the Spirit. And that is just not possible.

As witnessed over and over in scripture, both being baptized in literal water in the name of the Lord Jesus and receiving the literal Holy Ghost are required. As such, it is obvious they are parts that make up the whole known as the NT spiritual rebirth spoken of by Jesus. (John 3:3-5)

 

[BillG]

Thank you for responding. I was confused because the scripture I shared was in answer to someone saying baptism in the name of Jesus was not water baptism. The scripture confirmed that Peter commanded the Gentiles to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord.

The reason I say that baptism must be done in the name of the Lord Jesus is because that is how the apostles always baptized people in the bible. I'm not sure if you know it, but the forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church made people stop using the name of the Lord Jesus and start reciting the phrase Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is substantial historical documentation about it.

It is unsettling when considering the there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved. Many would be surprised to know, as I was, that the RCC considers members of different denominations as daughters of the mother church as long as they subscribe to their form of water baptism. One must ask themselves why RCC leaders don't reject any denomination on doctrinal differences accept where baptism is concerned.

Thank you for responding cordially.

So what about the following?

Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

I have asked you before about the above but cannot ever recall a response to this.

If a person is baptised as per the above I think you believe that their sins have not been remitted and therefore not saved??

 

[Wansvic]

Who has the authority to baptize?

Jesus gave that authority to His original disciples, who in turn taught others to do the same. (Matt. 28:18-20) This is evidenced by Philip's baptizing the Samaritans in Acts 8, and Paul baptizing the 12 Ephesians in Acts 19.


"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt. 28:18-20

Jesus also made the following statement pertaining to water baptism:
"Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained." John 20:23

 

[Wansvic]

Thank you for responding cordially.

So what about the following?

Matthew 28:18-20 (NKJV)
18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.

I have asked you before about the above but cannot ever recall a response to this.

If a person is baptised as per the above I think you believe that their sins have not been remitted and therefore not saved??

I would agree that reciting the phrase during baptisms was acceptable if there were confirming scriptures. But there aren't any records of the disciples ever administering baptism that way.

Notice what Jesus said in Matthew 28:19, He said to baptize in the name of... We know His disciples knew what Jesus meant by how they administered water baptisms.

Also, we know it is because of Jesus' sacrifice that we are to obey the command to be baptized in water. Paul said those who were baptized were buried with Jesus into His death where their sins were destroyed. (Romans 6:3-6) Another comment Paul made concerning the use of Jesus' name in baptism is in Corinthians. He mentioned that people are baptized in the name of the one crucified for them. (1 Cor. 1:13)

I share this information out of love. And believe everyone's eternal life depends upon being obedient to God's word. (John 12:48) And sadly, many have never been shown what Jesus actually said in Matthew 28:19 and the confirming scriptures that back it up. I for one was water baptized in the way promoted by the forerunners of the RCC. However, once the truth was pointed out and I studied the relevant scriptures I chose to obey the God-given command. Since that time, my relationship with the Lord has grown ever stronger.